Data R.O.B. Matchup Thread

[alguidrag]

R.O.B. does fine against pikachu? I'm starting play ROB now and i have problens with a friend that use the pikachu

 

[FalconXD]

R.O.B. does fine against pikachu? I'm starting play ROB now and i have problens with a friend that use the pikachu

I think you misread the chart, it's 30-70 meaning it's unfavorable for ROB, it's probably one of his worst MUs. Idk whether the patches made it any better or worst since the last discussion, but it's still bad.

 

[Cherpumple]

Hey R.O.B. mains. I'd like to give my input on the Robin matchup as I have a friend who secondaries R.O.B. so I have a bit of experience. I'd say the matchup is fairly even, though maybe leaning a little in favor for R.O.B.!

R.O.B. has a lot going for him here. The Robo Beam is a great pressuring option when Robin is retreating to charge his Thunder tome, and the beam goes straight through Arcfire, leading to a great punish when there's any missed Arcfires due to the ridiculous cooldown time (which I believe is well over 60 frames). Gyros are a great edge guarding tool against Robin as I'm sure it is with other characters, however Robin's frame 7 jump leaves those gyros reducing many of his edge get up options. Robin's recovery leaves him vulnerable from above so gyros and Dairs work wonders here. The Arm Rotor reflector has forced me to eat many Elthunders, but don't rely on this move often as most Robin players will pick up on it pretty quick. One thing Robin has going for him in this matchup is his pretty reliable aerial combos that R.O.B. can juggle in to easily, so be careful when Robin is below you on stage!

I read a comment earlier saying that Arcfires can be tricky to get around. I don't have much advice on this as I also have a hard time with Arcfires when fighting Robin. I can say that Arcfire is mainly used as a spacing/pressuring tool and as a trap for Levin Sword aerials. Watch out for the distance between you and Robin.

Hope this was helpful and not something everyone has already heard!

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, the Olimar board is now discussing the R.O.B. matchup. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Crome]

Do you want MU numbers for the OP? A lot of them seem out of date, not present or just wrong. Bowser - R.O.B is not 65 - 35.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Rosalina sub-forum is analyzing R.O.B. again this week. Here's the link to the page if you have anything to contribute.

http://smashboards.com/threads/408235/

 

[Crome]

This is my take on a "R.O.B Tier list". It isn't based on individual rank in the entire cast, but more so how they stack up VS R.O.B. It's only ordered by tier, besides the R.O.B tier. People to the left of R.O.B have a slightly higher win ratio (Like 55-45 their favor) and to the right are either 50-50 or 45-55 R.O.B's favor. Yes, I think the villager MU is almost even / we win.


People in the "Bad" tier are MUs almost unwinnable, easily in the 80-20 or higher range. "Unfavorable" is 70-30. "Slightly unfavorable" is 65-35 or 60-40. I've already explained the R.O.B tier. For the tiers below, just mirror what I previously said, but in R.O.B's favor. "Great" is the equivalent of "Bad" except we win, etc.

 

[Pixel_]

Any reason why we beat Ryu?

I don't remember fighting any good Ryus with R.O.B., but I wouldn't see why we would win. Does it have something to do with his approach?

 

[Crome]

Any reason why we beat Ryu?

I don't remember fighting any good Ryus with R.O.B., but I wouldn't see why we would win. Does it have something to do with his approach?

We can camp him out and gimp him fairly easily. I also lack a lot of experience in the MU, but I feel that "Slightly Favorable" was a safe option.

 

[Jams.]

This is my take on a "R.O.B Tier list". It isn't based on individual rank in the entire cast, but more so how they stack up VS R.O.B. It's only ordered by tier, besides the R.O.B tier. People to the left of R.O.B have a slightly higher win ratio (Like 55-45 their favor) and to the right are either 50-50 or 45-55 R.O.B's favor. Yes, I think the villager MU is almost even / we win.


People in the "Bad" tier are MUs almost unwinnable, easily in the 80-20 or higher range. "Unfavorable" is 70-30. "Slightly unfavorable" is 65-35 or 60-40. I've already explained the R.O.B tier. For the tiers below, just mirror what I previously said, but in R.O.B's favor. "Great" is the equivalent of "Bad" except we win, etc.

The new tier list maker is really nice.

I don't think Rosalina is in the same tier of "bad" as ZSS. I feel that nair really shines in this MU, since it can clank with Luma uair for a decent landing option, kills Luma if Rosa shields it, and just kills Luma really well in general. OCEAN vs Ikep demonstrates how powerful nair is in this MU IMO. My impression from personal experience is that she's in the unfavourable tier.

Based on results, believe Pikachu and Luigi are both better MUs. 8bitman does really well against ESAM, and SaSSy recently went to game 5 versus ESAM as well; they're not set wins, but it shows ROB can compete at a high level. With Luigi, Holy has basically a flawless record versus Poke Luigi, BoScotty beat Shel fairly recently, and Mister Eric also seems to have had Boss' number at recent Xanadu's. The results are significantly in favour of ROB for this MU.

I feel that Yoshi is a better MU as well from personal experience, but you would definitely know this MU better than me.

On the other end of the spectrum, I feel like Mewtwo is a much harder MU than you suggest. Mew^2 has recently beaten Gyo quite consistently, and has a win over SaSSy as well. In theory, Mewtwo can force ROB to play the mid range poking game that he excels in due to ROB's lack of rushdown options and Mewtwo's reflector. ROB also gets comboed pretty hard by Mewtwo now. I personally feel this MU is around even, with possibly a slight advantage to either character (not too much confidence on the exact ratio in this MU).

Also, do you have an opinion on the Cloud MU? That's been my new problem MU recently.

 

[Crome]

The new tier list maker is really nice.

I don't think Rosalina is in the same tier of "bad" as ZSS. I feel that nair really shines in this MU, since it can clank with Luma uair for a decent landing option, kills Luma if Rosa shields it, and just kills Luma really well in general. OCEAN vs Ikep demonstrates how powerful nair is in this MU IMO. My impression from personal experience is that she's in the unfavourable tier.

Based on results, believe Pikachu and Luigi are both better MUs. 8bitman does really well against ESAM, and SaSSy recently went to game 5 versus ESAM as well; they're not set wins, but it shows ROB can compete at a high level. With Luigi, Holy has basically a flawless record versus Poke Luigi, BoScotty beat Shel fairly recently, and Mister Eric also seems to have had Boss' number at recent Xanadu's. The results are significantly in favour of ROB for this MU.

I feel that Yoshi is a better MU as well from personal experience, but you would definitely know this MU better than me.

On the other end of the spectrum, I feel like Mewtwo is a much harder MU than you suggest. Mew^2 has recently beaten Gyo quite consistently, and has a win over SaSSy as well. In theory, Mewtwo can force ROB to play the mid range poking game that he excels in due to ROB's lack of rushdown options and Mewtwo's reflector. ROB also gets comboed pretty hard by Mewtwo now. I personally feel this MU is around even, with possibly a slight advantage to either character (not too much confidence on the exact ratio in this MU).

Also, do you have an opinion on the Cloud MU? That's been my new problem MU recently.

Are you the Jams from that 0-death gif on Reddit today? That was some good ****, man.

Regarding Pikachu and Luigi: I can agree with that. Pikachu I just have little to no experience with him, so I struggle whenever I get the rare chance of fighting one. Here is the only time I've fought a competent one in bracket. With Luigi, I just find myself getting tricked often. I believe I just need to practice the MU more. This match was just last week in Missouri, against a KC Luigi.

Yoshi: Nahhhh man. MU is hard as hell. A better R.O.B than me has given up on it entirely. Mr.Doom is the best Yoshi in the midwest, and he kicks my ass on a weekly basis. I definitely think it's doable, though. He's just so safe with everything, you have to learn to play around him.

I chalked up Mewtwo as "He's light and we're faster". I don't know how well his nair deals with u air, but if it doesn't bode well for him I could see R.O.B getting a big + in the MU. Maybe even, but I doubt we lose the MU. I'll talk to SaSSY and Gyo about this MU on the FB chat, as I honestly have no idea.

 

[Jams.]

Are you the Jams from that 0-death gif on Reddit today? That was some good ****, man.

Regarding Pikachu and Luigi: I can agree with that. Pikachu I just have little to no experience with him, so I struggle whenever I get the rare chance of fighting one. Here is the only time I've fought a competent one in bracket. With Luigi, I just find myself getting tricked often. I believe I just need to practice the MU more. This match was just last week in Missouri, against a KC Luigi.

Yoshi: Nahhhh man. MU is hard as hell. A better R.O.B than me has given up on it entirely. Mr.Doom is the best Yoshi in the midwest, and he kicks my *** on a weekly basis. I definitely think it's doable, though. He's just so safe with everything, you have to learn to play around him.

I chalked up Mewtwo as "He's light and we're faster". I don't know how well his nair deals with u air, but if it doesn't bode well for him I could see R.O.B getting a big + in the MU. Maybe even, but I doubt we lose the MU. I'll talk to SaSSY and Gyo about this MU on the FB chat, as I honestly have no idea.

Yep, I am that guy. Thank you!

I'm in the ROB Facebook chat as well, but I can't change my nickname to my tag because I don't have Facebook mobile. >_>

 

[Plategoron]

I agree with Jams, that Rosa isn't as bad as ZSS. It's pretty surely an unfavorable MU for us, but it's far from 80-20. I'd rather say 60-40.
Her Gravitational Pull beats our gyro as a projectile and our laz0r, but we can still use the gyro, if we don't shoot it at Rosa, but pick it up somewhere else. Make sure to always make her remember, that she needs her DownB and if she forgets, poke her with it until she's in the mood for DownB again.
Also, our nair beats Luma and we can juggle Rosa just as good as she can juggle us.

I also don't think, the Yoshi MU is bad. It might be slightly in Yoshis favor, but if you stay a lot more grounded than usual, always ready to shield, if he throws eggs or moves at you, you're fine. Long0uw and myself don't really struggle in this MU anymore, as Germany has way too many Yoshis.

MK is far worse in my opinion, because his dash attack beats all of our zoning and unless the MK messes up, we are very easy combo food and also have trouble landing against his all mighty dash attack.

Also I think, that the villager MU is far worse than even. What the hell should we do to counter his sh fair/bair?

Ryu MU might be slightly in our favor, but I'm not sure about that. The only Ryu I know, is better than me.

Link is probably a favourable MU, because our projectile game is better and our laz0r can interrupt him pretty much anytime, when he'd like to pull a bomb.

I also don't see, how we'd have favorable MUs against Pacman, Samus, Mewtu or Mega Man.
Mega Man and Samus are even imho, depending on which player adapts better to his opponents projectile game.
Pacman might even be unfavorable, as we don't really have a way to chase him, if he's running away and his items can hurt us a lot.
Mewtu is probably about even. The buffs really helped him out and he can build easy damage with fair strings now. M2 being so fast in the air, makes him pretty dangerous to us.

I also don't think, that Bowser is a great MU, though it is definitely favorable.


The Corrin MU is probably in our favor, because we can punish her neutral b and side b with our laz0r and corrin has trouble approaching. We don't need to be too scared of her on the ground, as long as we don't let her punish us with dtilt, which comboes into her aerial strings.

I'm not sure about the Bayonetta MU yet. Her little bullets can make our gyro disappear which is a little desaster for us. Her fair strings might be really dangerous to us, but I'm yet to find out.
Apart from that, I don't think she can combo us harder than all other characters, so maybe our usual weakness doesn't shine.

The Cloud MU is clearly unfavorable for us. His nair beats our nair and he can make our attempts to land hell.
Also we have serious trouble escaping his aerial strings.

 

[Crome]

Also I think, that the villager MU is far worse than even. What the hell should we do to counter his sh fair/bair?

You shield the two projectiles. It's annoying as ****, but thats how you gotta play in this MU. Once he's done it twice you can shoot a projectile at him, or get closer to him. Hell, if you have the advantage just go to the other side of the stage lol.

I think Villager is a better character than us, but we got this MU. A majority of our ground moves are either faster or even with his, the only exception being dsmash. Our fair is faster than his, and it will beat his. We need to play at a medium range for this MU. So we can react to his projectiles, yet we can still punish him. Also, if a villager pockets our laser it's free gyros, and the opposite.

I also don't see, how we'd have favorable MUs against Pacman, Samus, Mewtu or Mega Man.
Mega Man and Samus are even imho, depending on which player adapts better to his opponents projectile game.
Pacman might even be unfavorable, as we don't really have a way to chase him, if he's running away and his items can hurt us a lot.
Mewtu is probably about even. The buffs really helped him out and he can build easy damage with fair strings now. M2 being so fast in the air, makes him pretty dangerous to us.

I'm very adamant with my stance on Mega Man, but I'm unsure on my opinion of Pac & M2.
- Our aerials, projectiles, and recovery are better than his. I think we just outclass him in most everything, really. In the instance he has our gyro and it playing keep away, Megaman is hurt more by being limited to only specials than we are (If we did the same thing with his metal blade). He has no good "get off me" aerials, so he is very susceptible to down throw up air. His recovery is a free gyro spike.

- I played a pac man once, he beat players much better than me on his way to me in bracket. I beat him. That's all the experience I have in this MU lol. His recovery is really hard to spike, but his combo game out of throws is weak. We gotta out camp this guy, we can't let him charge up his fruit and do fire hydrant shenanigans. I feel like you just need to be aware of his gimmicks. Also, watch Mister Eric vs. that MDVA Pacman player in grand finals. Forgot his name.

- As I said earlier, I have literally no experience in this MU. I just went "We're heavier and have better projectiles". This isn't an opinion I hold very strongly, haha. The tier list was just to incite discussion, such as this.

I also don't think, that Bowser is a great MU, though it is definitely favorable.

I'll admit I overstated the MU, especially with his new combo throw. I do agree he's at least "favorable". Bowser literally has no options if we set the gyro down next to the ledge when he's on it.

Link is probably a favourable MU, because our projectile game is better and our laz0r can interrupt him pretty much anytime, when he'd like to pull a bomb.

Link has much more stage control over us, it is very hard to work around him. You have to stay in a sweet spot, about mid range or so. He beats us up close and farther away. I think we win, but I don't think it's easy.


I've noticed, no one has mentioned my placings of ZSS or Sheik. do you guys think I placed them accurately? Maybe I should move RosaLuma down a tier?

 

[Jams.]

I've noticed, no one has mentioned my placings of ZSS or Sheik. do you guys think I placed them accurately? Maybe I should move RosaLuma down a tier?

I think almost every ROB despises the ZSS matchup and most consider it this worst, haha. I did play a competent ZSS at a tournament over the weekend, and the matchup feels a lot better with proper DI and the boost kick nerfs. Still garbage, but at least we don't die from random uair conversions and grabs at 35%. I feel that the MU is slightly better than 80-20, but we're just arguing semantics at that point. At the very least, ROB is decent at avoiding landing traps with gyro and upb, and has decent punishes on ZSS if he powershields a misspaced aerial I suppose.

I used to think Sheik was ROB's hardest matchup (the good old days before my region had a good ZSS), but I've since changed that opinion. She's hard but doable. ROB has many notable wins against Sheik (I think Raffi > False is the most recent example), so it is winnable at a high level. ROB can usually afford long range projectile trades as long as he is not down a stock because gyro does so much damage and can block needles. Fair can contest Sheik's fair to an extent because it has similar range and start-up, but it's not always in ROB's favour because Sheik's fair converts much better. If you powershield a poorly spaced/timed aerial, it's an easy usmash OoS; good players won't give you many of those though. Beep boop, especially fraudulent rage poorly DIed beep boop, is the lord and saviour, like it is in many of ROB's bad matchups. She should probably stay where she is.

 

[GerudoKong]

65:35 on bowser seems too high. As a bowser user I've beaten every ROB I've played against in locals (only 3 so I guess take my words with a grain of salt) but it never seemed too tough of a MU. Villager is much harder for bowser. I feel like Bowser does a decent job of getting in on ROB, and because of ROB's size he takes a lot of damage from one u-throw to nair (nair being a multihit move that deals up to 25). Not only that but upB out of shield and bowser's large grab-range punishes Rob's usual safe nair pretty well. I would say 55:45 ROB to be honest

 

[Syde7]

Late to the party, maybe?

My version. In lieu of writing out rationale for every character, just let me know what ones stand out.

A Few Notes, Though:

• I feel ROB is upper mid to low high.
• He's been actually nerfed (a long time ago) with his U-throw.
• He's been 'effectively' nerfed via many of his slightly advantageous MUs being buffed in some way that's meaningful.
• I don't think he decimates/ROFLStomps many characters that aren't already bodied by a bunch of characters in the rough "tier" I put him in.
• He also has a lot of even-ish MUs, imo (as illustrated above)
• That, combined with his bad MUs w/ those above him kind of wedges him in.
• I'd be willing to move Bowser, Little Mac, Duck Hunt and Pac-Man to "Even to Slight Advantage". In fact, that's where I feel they should mostly go, but ran outta room.
• Dandy Penguin, probably the best US Duck Hunt and I both agree the ROB / DH matchup is close to even.
• Would be willing to bump MewTwo down to "Good". I've only played one decent M2, so I'm lacking higher level experience.

Anything that stands out, feel free to ask for my rationale / experiences & I'd be happy to oblige.

 

[Jams.]

65:35 on bowser seems too high. As a bowser user I've beaten every ROB I've played against in locals (only 3 so I guess take my words with a grain of salt) but it never seemed too tough of a MU. Villager is much harder for bowser. I feel like Bowser does a decent job of getting in on ROB, and because of ROB's size he takes a lot of damage from one u-throw to nair (nair being a multihit move that deals up to 25). Not only that but upB out of shield and bowser's large grab-range punishes Rob's usual safe nair pretty well. I would say 55:45 ROB to be honest

The MU in the OP was before Bowser's recent buffs (and more recent nerf I guess). Basically all the MUs in the OP are super outdated unfortunately. At the time, Bowser wasn't able to get a large advantage from getting in on ROB. The MU is definitely better than 35:65 for Bowser now.

 

[Crome]

The MU in the OP was before Bowser's recent buffs (and more recent nerf I guess). Basically all the MUs in the OP are super outdated unfortunately. At the time, Bowser wasn't able to get a large advantage from getting in on ROB. The MU is definitely better than 35:65 for Bowser now.

Do you think we should remake the MU threads?

 

[Jams.]

Do you think we should remake the MU threads?

IDK if these boards have enough activity, considering some of the old MU threads basically died off immediately, and the boards only seem to have gotten worse since then. =/

I liked SaSSy's idea about posting MU charts like you and Syde have done, then discussing and creating a combined ROB MU chart that would hopefully be somewhat accurate. FB group chats are honestly a terrible discussion platform for this, though the caveat is there are lots of skilled players that are active there. It doesn't help that all the ROBs are dispersed over Facebook, Discord, Skype, and here with some players only using 1 platform, and that 8bitman isn't involved in anything at all AFAIK. Smashboards is probably the best platform for MU discussion, if we could somehow convince everyone to actually come back here, haha.

Late to the party, maybe?

My version. In lieu of writing out rationale for every character, just let me know what ones stand out.

A Few Notes, Though:

• I feel ROB is upper mid to low high.
• He's been actually nerfed (a long time ago) with his U-throw.
• He's been 'effectively' nerfed via many of his slightly advantageous MUs being buffed in some way that's meaningful.
• I don't think he decimates/ROFLStomps many characters that aren't already bodied by a bunch of characters in the rough "tier" I put him in.
• He also has a lot of even-ish MUs, imo (as illustrated above)
• That, combined with his bad MUs w/ those above him kind of wedges him in.
• I'd be willing to move Bowser, Little Mac, Duck Hunt and Pac-Man to "Even to Slight Advantage". In fact, that's where I feel they should mostly go, but ran outta room.
• Dandy Penguin, probably the best US Duck Hunt and I both agree the ROB / DH matchup is close to even.
• Would be willing to bump MewTwo down to "Good". I've only played one decent M2, so I'm lacking higher level experience.

Anything that stands out, feel free to ask for my rationale / experiences & I'd be happy to oblige.

My only major gripe with this MU chart is the Mewtwo placement. This MU happens decently often at high level in Texas, and Mew^2 has a positive record versus both Gyo and SaSSy (admittedly I think they've only played once) after the Mewtwo buffs. For reference, Gyo thinks the MU is slightly in Mewtwo's favour, and recently has been opting to use Villager instead of ROB. I don't have much personal MU experience, but I feel these results are significant enough that Mewtwo is at best a slight advantage for ROB.

Tiny disagreements that don't really matter: ZSS is his worst MU, maybe even on a different level of difficulty compared to his other MUs (bumping down Sheik and Pika). Pika probably isn't third hardest, considering 8bitman and SaSSy's performances against ESAM. Rosa is probably worse at least. Assuming they're ordered within each "tier," Doc is probably near the end of the row from personal experience versus a competent Doc main. Palutena might be more difficult considering Iceninja has decent results versus Holy.

 

[Syde7]

IDK if these boards have enough activity, considering some of the old MU threads basically died off immediately, and the boards only seem to have gotten worse since then. =/

I liked SaSSy's idea about posting MU charts like you and Syde have done, then discussing and creating a combined ROB MU chart that would hopefully be somewhat accurate. FB group chats are honestly a terrible discussion platform for this, though the caveat is there are lots of skilled players that are active there. It doesn't help that all the ROBs are dispersed over Facebook, Discord, Skype, and here with some players only using 1 platform, and that 8bitman isn't involved in anything at all AFAIK. Smashboards is probably the best platform for MU discussion, if we could somehow convince everyone to actually come back here, haha.



My only major gripe with this MU chart is the Mewtwo placement. This MU happens decently often at high level in Texas, and Mew^2 has a positive record versus both Gyo and SaSSy (admittedly I think they've only played once) after the Mewtwo buffs. For reference, Gyo thinks the MU is slightly in Mewtwo's favour, and recently has been opting to use Villager instead of ROB. I don't have much personal MU experience, but I feel these results are significant enough that Mewtwo is at best a slight advantage for ROB.

Tiny disagreements that don't really matter: ZSS is his worst MU, maybe even on a different level of difficulty compared to his other MUs (bumping down Sheik and Pika). Pika probably isn't third hardest, considering 8bitman and SaSSy's performances against ESAM. Rosa is probably worse at least. Assuming they're ordered within each "tier," Doc is probably near the end of the row from personal experience versus a competent Doc main. Palutena might be more difficult considering Iceninja has decent results versus Holy.

Good insight! Syde note: Not Ordered within tiers.

• Like I said, I've got exp vs one competent MewTwo. I never really felt overwhelmed, but I'm sure that is 100% due to the skill.
• I agree w/ ZSS being the worst MU. Should have tried to order them w/in tiers to avoid confusion.
• I'm not sold on Rosa being tougher than Pika, but I could concede it. I need more Pika exp, as I've played NO Pikas (aside from one set from Esam which was the first time I played a super competent Pika). The Rosalina's I've gotten matches/sets in with, are Eldin (SC PR'd player, does well at regionals, hasn't traveled outside of Southeast) and AceStar a few times online, and friendlies at SmashCon w/ Jester (who finished 13th at that tournament). Like I said, not sold on it, but definitely accept it as a possibility.
• Finally, I feel a LOT of chars fall within that even-ish range (in addition to the ones I mentioned) but I ran outta room. =P

 

[Crome]

IDK if these boards have enough activity, considering some of the old MU threads basically died off immediately, and the boards only seem to have gotten worse since then. =/.

I wrote an article about this, here it is if you want to read it.

I was hoping that if we remake the MU threads with a much cleaner, more consistent format, we'd encourage people to come back. If we could get some of the top players to contribute to a MU spread chart like the ones Syde and I made, we might be able to make a much better, more "official" one.

 

[Zoramine Fae]

Alright, just a random Little Mac main here with not much of a reason to be here outside of mr. Pixel_ who was in the Little Mac tier list placement thread that I had made and I was merely interested in something from you guys.

I'm making a Little Mac guide and in order to make it a bit more, uh, possibly interesting, I've decided to add matchup guides for Little Mac - against EVERY CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE ROSTER. Which is actually pretty goddamn long once I started going along and finished six characters so far. R.O.B is a character I'm quite unsure of, having fought about three good R.O.B.s before: One, at a tournament, which I 2-0'd although both matches were semi-close due to me being able to grab his Gyro and down throw to catch roll getups or up throw for pressure. The second was on a website that I use a lot, PokemonShowdown, and me and him did only one match but again it was close, and he won instead of me. The third was, uh, interesting, since he barely used his Gyro but instead used Laser. A LOT. And he did lose. For Glory player but he seemed to know what he was doing.

And as such, I need help putting down matchup knowledge of things such as what advantages R.O.B. has fighting Little Mac over him (what I mean by this is like Robin having a very good spacing game, good aerials for gimping and killing) and what disadvantages he has (Also using Robin as an example, he has some huge problems against rushdown and has much worse frame data compared to Little Mac). As well as this, if anyone has knowledge of OTHER characters, information on that for me would be good too.

tl;dr I need info on how you R.O.Bs deal with Little Mac.


Also, to stay on topic with what this thread is, the matchup is more 55/45 still in your favor imo. Your gyros can be annoying but if we get them R.O.B has a massive problem. Lasers can be annoying but once a Little Mac gets used to them it's basically just a normal projectile. Best thing you guys have imo is a pretty good edgeguarding ability. Neutral Air also doesn't help since we have armor on just about everything.

 

[Syde7]

Alright, just a random Little Mac main here with not much of a reason to be here outside of mr. Pixel_ who was in the Little Mac tier list placement thread that I had made and I was merely interested in something from you guys.

I'm making a Little Mac guide and in order to make it a bit more, uh, possibly interesting, I've decided to add matchup guides for Little Mac - against EVERY CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE ROSTER. Which is actually pretty goddamn long once I started going along and finished six characters so far. R.O.B is a character I'm quite unsure of, having fought about three good R.O.B.s before: One, at a tournament, which I 2-0'd although both matches were semi-close due to me being able to grab his Gyro and down throw to catch roll getups or up throw for pressure. The second was on a website that I use a lot, PokemonShowdown, and me and him did only one match but again it was close, and he won instead of me. The third was, uh, interesting, since he barely used his Gyro but instead used Laser. A LOT. And he did lose. For Glory player but he seemed to know what he was doing.

And as such, I need help putting down matchup knowledge of things such as what advantages R.O.B. has fighting Little Mac over him (what I mean by this is like Robin having a very good spacing game, good aerials for gimping and killing) and what disadvantages he has (Also using Robin as an example, he has some huge problems against rushdown and has much worse frame data compared to Little Mac). As well as this, if anyone has knowledge of OTHER characters, information on that for me would be good too.

tl;dr I need info on how you R.O.Bs deal with Little Mac.


Also, to stay on topic with what this thread is, the matchup is more 55/45 still in your favor imo. Your gyros can be annoying but if we get them R.O.B has a massive problem. Lasers can be annoying but once a Little Mac gets used to them it's basically just a normal projectile. Best thing you guys have imo is a pretty good edgeguarding ability. Neutral Air also doesn't help since we have armor on just about everything.

My former doubles partner is a hella good Little Mac main (#3 or 4 on our state's PR... decent regional placements), so I have a lot of exp in the MU. To me, I feel 55/45 (ROBs advantage) is about right, but I wouldn't call someone crazy & laugh them out of the building if they said it was even or 45/55 Mac's favor. The only advantage I feel ROB *really* has is edgeguarding, and I don't even think that's a spectacular, matchup changing advantage. That, and having him above us is pretty good bc its hard for him to get down. That is where ROB is really going to get the match even or pull into a favorable position.

Though, Mac's nair can disrupt / run interference since its so fast, and there's the thread of an up+B or side+B if ROB gets a SMIDGE greedy and tries to extend farther than he should. Also, if ROB misreads an airdodge for beep-boop, he is either gonna get countered OR (more likely) get up+B'd out of Mac's airdodge. Its kinda like playing v. Ness (with his dumb Uair and wacky airdodge z-axis shenanigans) in that regard, where your 50/50 becomes a legit life/death 50/50 for the both of you

Mac is too fast for us to effectively camp. The only stages that give us enough room are DH, T&C, and FD. One (or both) of those he will ban, and I'll probably ban FD which leaves no 'long' stages (aside from DL if you consider that long). He can either get in with a run -> dash attack in our cooldown, side+B OVER the gyro when we shoot it as well as our laser (or power through them with the armor he has on his Side+B).

Landing vs. Mac is SUPER hard for ROB because of Mac's speed AND super armor AND speed/range of his smashes/tilts. He can usually get to where we want to be with a bit of time to spare, and has the burst speed to catch us if he guesses wrong.

ROB, imo, also struggles with really punishing a Mac with good spacing. The shieldstun and pushback on his moves are too high for ROB's slow-ish run speed & dashgrab to close the gap on. Same is true with tilts... a lot of times, from my exp, is that Mac can just throw something else that has armor out by the time we can & it will flat out beat ROB's options. Additionally, when we are ON the offensive or pressuing Mac, its really hard to do so safely due to the difference in speed, and our floatiness. When we drift back to maintain spacing, we can't get to the ground fast enough to thwart a side+B, F-tilt, DA, or F-Smash OoS). And, if we're a bit on the slow/sloppy side, OoS U-smash will probably hit... I *think*. The best way to really beat Mac is for a character to be as mobile as him (A sheik, or sonic come to mind) or have something that TOTALLY walls him out (like Rosalina).. which ROB doesn't have.

Mac can put on a LOT of ledge pressure due to some of the stuff mentioned above and ROBs ledge options aren't the greatest. When recovering, there's the threat of a D-smash catching your 2-frame ledgegrab window while powering through a sneaky ROB U-air that would otherwise get him safely to the ledge vs. most of the cast. In my experience, if you get pinned to the ledge vs. him, you are gonna have a really, really bad time. Also, D-tilt to Up+B is hella free vs. ROB's big, floppy, floaty butt.

TL;DR
Its close to even because ROB really does body Mac from below, and has the potential for an early KO via a gimp with f-air, laser, or dropped/thrown gyro, as well as the option to platform camp if we get a lead. But, they (the gimps, that is) are not as guaranteed and as free as people pretend it is if the Mac is smart. This is offset by Mac being able to limit our defensive play simply bc of the way stage strikes/bans works & what each char prefers; by his burst speed. Also super tough to land due to his SA on smashes, speed and range of his U-tilt (also helps build about 30+% damage at low percents vs. ROB) and speed & his confirms are pretty easy to hit on ROB.

Just my opinion, tho.

 

[Bucketfullabiscuits]

I went in training and checked it out. While Villager has it pocketed, you can't pull a new gyro out, but there is a time limit on how long Villager can pocket something. It felt like 20ish seconds (which is a long time), but it isn't forever.

Note that villager can press pocket to bring it out of his pocket and into his hand, and then back into his pocket, refreshing the counter, you could either hit him out of this and hope he drops it, or that he forgets to pocket.