Kinzer
Mammy
More likely than not a footstool was snuck in that small timeframe.
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Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread
- Thread starter Remzi
- Start date
Lord Chair
Smash Master
You regain your upb even when the footstool animation doesn't take place?
The humanity.
The humanity.
T-block
B2B TST
Yep, it's a footstool. Happens to Snake as well, and Sonic I believe?
Kinzer
Mammy
Right on.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
looks like there was a footstool in that mess
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
You can also laser G&W with Fox and he'll get his Up-B back IIRC.
trying to rotate GFX correctly in PSA is retardedly annoying because of this
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
So, tell me this...
We all know about "cinematic hitlag" as it's commonly called, and how some of marth's attack have said property. Now I was also told by a Marth that the entire usmash is a tipper, the thing is, I know I've SDI'd it before, which isn't possible w/ cinematic hitlag. Is there some misinformation, or is usmash not one of those attacks w/ cinematic hitlag?
We all know about "cinematic hitlag" as it's commonly called, and how some of marth's attack have said property. Now I was also told by a Marth that the entire usmash is a tipper, the thing is, I know I've SDI'd it before, which isn't possible w/ cinematic hitlag. Is there some misinformation, or is usmash not one of those attacks w/ cinematic hitlag?
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
i believe the first hit is not cinematic hitlag and is SDIable, but the second part im fairly certian is the cinematic hitlag
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
wtf is cinematic hitlag
you should be able to DI any of those moves as long as they have some value of SDI above 0 and they send you into tumble(iirc)
you should be able to DI any of those moves as long as they have some value of SDI above 0 and they send you into tumble(iirc)
Toomai
Smash Ace
"Cinimatic hitlag" is not a good term to use. From what I can tell it's ill-defined, with the closet definition being "a hitbox with high freeze frames and low SDI ability".
Marth's entire up smash has regular SDI ability, with the tip having extra freeze frames.
Marth's entire up smash has regular SDI ability, with the tip having extra freeze frames.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yeah, I'm not entirely comfortable w/ the term either, but most associate it with those properties.
T-block
B2B TST
Yeah, it refers only to a 0x SDI multiplier. Moves like Squirtle's d-air, with a 0.25x multiplier, are not cinematic.
I don't mind the term at all =\
It's only Marth's f-smash that has cinematic hitlag IIRC.
I don't mind the term at all =\
It's only Marth's f-smash that has cinematic hitlag IIRC.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
They are, and so's dair I think, and Falcon's knee (?). But I assumed T meant fsmash was the only one of Marth's moves that's cinematic.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Those have SDI multipliers on them. I don't think any move in the game has ZERO SDI multiplier.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Lightning Kicks have x0 multipliers at the toe. You can SDI the weak spots tho.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Well then.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
you can DEFINITELY sdi falcons knee LOL
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
I haven't been on skype for like 2 days now. Anything happening?
T-block
B2B TST
Yeah, I meant that Marth has no other moves that have cinematic hitlag. Sorry about that =x
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
we have to Options to chose for the display of the duration of an move
we have
"FAF" (first actionable frame as you know)
and
"Total" (as "Total Frames" or "Total Duration of the Move or the likes)
what do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of either? (directed to everyone =D)
we have
"FAF" (first actionable frame as you know)
and
"Total" (as "Total Frames" or "Total Duration of the Move or the likes)
what do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of either? (directed to everyone =D)
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
I always liked FAF better. Can't give a strong argument for why tho. *shrug* I don't think it really matters either way.
EDIT: v That's true. If we used duration, we'd have to specify IASA/FAF/whatever frames anyway, so both or FAF is probably better.
EDIT: v That's true. If we used duration, we'd have to specify IASA/FAF/whatever frames anyway, so both or FAF is probably better.
T-block
B2B TST
The way that's worded, there is a subtle difference between the two when a move has IASA frames, no? If a move has IASA, Total would actually show a longer duration than FAF. I thought that's why we used FAF?
In any case, I don't see the problem with being redundant and showing both. They both could be useful depending on what the seeker of the frame data is looking to do.
In any case, I don't see the problem with being redundant and showing both. They both could be useful depending on what the seeker of the frame data is looking to do.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
You could easily just do what the melee hitbox threads do.
An example would be:
Down Air
Hits: 4-8
IASA: 38
Total: 44
That way it shows when the IASA is and how long the animation is.
An example would be:
Down Air
Hits: 4-8
IASA: 38
Total: 44
That way it shows when the IASA is and how long the animation is.
Sieguest
Smash Master
The way I always understood it, we used FAF because most moves in brawl weren't legitimately "interrupted", (Their "IASA" was noted as one frame after the move actually finishing which really isn't interrupting anything) so using the term IASA was inaccurate (unless the move actually was able to be interrupted before being finished [MK uair....]).
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
i never properly understood IASA. imo if you can "interrupt" a move, you arent "interrupting" it anymore, that is when the move ends. how do you tell between iasa frames and regular FAF? they seem identical to me
T-block
B2B TST
Some moves can be interrupted before the animation ends.
If you're only looking at the practical aspect, then yes, we should just consider the move to be over once you can perform a different action. However, the animation of the move does continue, so from a design standpoint, the move is still ongoing.
Actually, do you have access to all of your options during IASA? You can still jump, right? For some reason my gut is telling me you're limited during IASA.
If you're only looking at the practical aspect, then yes, we should just consider the move to be over once you can perform a different action. However, the animation of the move does continue, so from a design standpoint, the move is still ongoing.
Actually, do you have access to all of your options during IASA? You can still jump, right? For some reason my gut is telling me you're limited during IASA.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
It's only a subtle difference.
FAF = the first frame you can possibly act whether it's an IASA (before the move's animation ends) or not.
IASA = only if you can act before the move's animation ends.
So, all moves have an FAF. Not all moves have IASA.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
eh i dont see the point to the average player. as tblock says i look from a purely practical standpoint. when the animation ends it completely superfluous and has no effect on the game if you can do anything you want before the animation ends -shrug. just something that bugged me
no you getting it a bit wrong
IASA means you can interrupt the move while it's still going.
you should never pay attention to the animation if you can interrupt it with everything.
Melee has "legit" IASA frames on aerials why brawl has not.
In Melee Jiggs can interrupt her bair from frame 31 with jump and aerials, but not with specials. She can only do specials after the move has finished (frame 39)
We don't have this in Brawl so the earliest frame we can input anything should be the point where we say "the moves ends here" (or the frame before to be correct)
I don't really now if they are moves that have true IASA frames in brawl D: The Shield Drop Animation after a powershield has them.
IASA means you can interrupt the move while it's still going.
you should never pay attention to the animation if you can interrupt it with everything.
Melee has "legit" IASA frames on aerials why brawl has not.
In Melee Jiggs can interrupt her bair from frame 31 with jump and aerials, but not with specials. She can only do specials after the move has finished (frame 39)
We don't have this in Brawl so the earliest frame we can input anything should be the point where we say "the moves ends here" (or the frame before to be correct)
I don't really now if they are moves that have true IASA frames in brawl D: The Shield Drop Animation after a powershield has them.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
So..... why even worry about duration? Just use FAF then, because afaik all IASA frames -- on attack moves anyway -- are in endlag (which is why I wouldn't say the move is "still going" if the hitbox is gone). & if you can do anything at that point, why even care about what comes after?
Then again, I've really only looked closely at Pika/Zelda frame data, so maybe I'm off with that last statement. /shrug
Then again, I've really only looked closely at Pika/Zelda frame data, so maybe I'm off with that last statement. /shrug
T-block
B2B TST
Shield drop being cancellable by a jump, and jump frames being interruptable by up-b or u-smash.
Do we lump those under IASA?
Do we lump those under IASA?
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
what about moves lime marths dtilt? im fairly certain you can dtilt again a lot sooner then you can do anything else
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
I am not sure about aerial IASA frames, but I have always known this.
In Brawl, you can IASA into anything. In melee, you cannot. IIRC you are limited to Attacks, Jump, and Shield. You cannot use specials from IASA though.
In Brawl, you can IASA into anything. In melee, you cannot. IIRC you are limited to Attacks, Jump, and Shield. You cannot use specials from IASA though.
no, I tested this, the frames where you can dash, special, shield etc are occupied with the frames for another dtilt.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
hence the IASA into anything in my post.
Toomai
Smash Ace
The difference between animation length and interruptability matters because if you interrupt a move with the same move again its staleness is delayed.
Example: If you continually d-tilt with Marth, as long as you interrupt the d-tilt with a d-tilt you are constantly in the d-tilt action. Each hit counts in the stale move queue, but the move's damage isn't decreased to match until you leave the d-tilt action (either the animation ends or you do something else).
Example: If you continually d-tilt with Marth, as long as you interrupt the d-tilt with a d-tilt you are constantly in the d-tilt action. Each hit counts in the stale move queue, but the move's damage isn't decreased to match until you leave the d-tilt action (either the animation ends or you do something else).