Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 2,271
- Location
- Kings Park, Melbourne
- NNID
- Jei_Soul
- 3DS FC
- 1564-4103-8935
It was YOU who stole my wii+u.s brawl at Rambo last year! I knew it!
<3
-
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| QLD Autumn LAN 2k9 | Melee/Brawl | Results Page 45
- Thread starter Vyse
- Start date
- Status
<3
dino/DJ
i know i havent gotten back to you guys with what im doing, havent really checked the boards for ages too.
I will be booking flights over the weekend. i will be getting the cheapest fights i can get.
it still ok for me to stay at your place isnt it, and it will probs be for a week (tuesday- tuesday as this seems to be the norm for cheaper flights).
I will let you guys know exactly what im doing as soon as i confirm flights.
i know i havent gotten back to you guys with what im doing, havent really checked the boards for ages too.
I will be booking flights over the weekend. i will be getting the cheapest fights i can get.
it still ok for me to stay at your place isnt it, and it will probs be for a week (tuesday- tuesday as this seems to be the norm for cheaper flights).
I will let you guys know exactly what im doing as soon as i confirm flights.
EDIT: Ignore; this is mostly me justifying myself and I'm sure most of you don't care.
I'll just say that you shouldn't write me off as someone that doesn't listen to the opinion of others. Especially yours Ryan, Especially when it comes to Smash.
You should know this because I can't praise you nearly enough for your insight when it comes to this game. It's because I respect your opinion and want to take it on board as much as possible that I'll make an extra effort to debate the points you make. In order to elicit even more from you.
Conservative rulesets are like yours Ryan. Rulesets which shape and refine the game in such a way that they believe allows for extreme balance.
Liberal rulesets are like the ones we've had, or Melbourne's had in the past. Liberal minded ruleset developer's seek to change as little of the game as possible (this is outside of turning off items, etc), banning only the stages that are deemed unfit for a competitive environment due to player abuse (Such as stages where circle camping is possible).
Now if EVERYONE posted here that they would be in favor of an extremely conservative ruleset, I would be inclined to make it so (But would debate the point nonetheless - if only to play devil's advocate in a one - sided trial).
It's important that well constructed arguments exist for both sides of the coin, otherwise who's to know that what we're doing is right and healthy for the competitive smash scene?
I am asking for your opinions to see if you can give me anything that I'll agree with and I do listen otherwise I wouldn't take the time to debate it. The whole prize money fiasco before didn't agree with me until Scrub's made a post (which was then refined by Cao) that clicked with me, causing me to come round to your side of the argument.
It's not that I don't agree, or won't take any opinion. As I said, I do. If you can construct reasoning such as the way Scrubs did which spurred me to include a pot for Melee. If you really want to see that ruleset implemented at LanSmash, you'll debate the point. As I've said, I'm not opposed to the idea, but given the fact that other players in the scene want a bit more variety than that and my current view of what promotes competitive play I can't bring myself to change it.
I'll apologise though. I'm taking this a little too far than what it needs to be, and making myself out to be a real douche in the process. I won't challenge whatever rebuttal you make because you already said that you'll play whatever stage list is implemented.
What I'll do is construct three rulesets and let people vote on the one they think is best. I think that'll get crowd satisfaction.
We should have a test run Conservative Stage List tournament soon though. Perhaps at Bob + Dino's tournament coming up?
I'll just say that you shouldn't write me off as someone that doesn't listen to the opinion of others. Especially yours Ryan, Especially when it comes to Smash.
You should know this because I can't praise you nearly enough for your insight when it comes to this game. It's because I respect your opinion and want to take it on board as much as possible that I'll make an extra effort to debate the points you make. In order to elicit even more from you.
If you have an arguement with good supporting, not supporting evidence grounded in opinion, then I'll either make a rebuttal or agree with it if it either agrees with my own point of view, or convinces me to change my point of view.
You can't build arguments on unsubstantiated opinions (what I refer to as subjective opinions). If you look at my arguments for the four possible stages for the last spot on the starter list I stated both pro's and con's and made sound arguments using commonly seen scenarios as examples.
If you can prove why I should implement a much more conservative stagelist with sound reasoning based on fact, not opinion, then you'll see a change or a call to vote. You can't expect to sway my stance on the issue with three short posts (one containing a copypasta post from AIB, the other complaining that I won't agree with you just because I'm defending my stance).
The post in the middle that you tried to defend your reasoning with was:
You can't build arguments on unsubstantiated opinions (what I refer to as subjective opinions). If you look at my arguments for the four possible stages for the last spot on the starter list I stated both pro's and con's and made sound arguments using commonly seen scenarios as examples.
If you can prove why I should implement a much more conservative stagelist with sound reasoning based on fact, not opinion, then you'll see a change or a call to vote. You can't expect to sway my stance on the issue with three short posts (one containing a copypasta post from AIB, the other complaining that I won't agree with you just because I'm defending my stance).
The post in the middle that you tried to defend your reasoning with was:
The only evidence you bought to the table was the one instance in which M2K and DSF played out their set on just Smashville. That's one instance amongst the many hundreds and hundreds of high level final sets wherein the sets are played out per normal.
You'll notice that I never ever say 'imo' because I don't like making people believe claims (that I want them to believe) and not ground it in fact.
You'll notice that I never ever say 'imo' because I don't like making people believe claims (that I want them to believe) and not ground it in fact.
I'll explain what I meant. When it comes to Competitive smash rulesets there have always been two main veins of thinking. One has been "Conservative" and the other has been "Liberal". If you look at the SBR ruleset, and compare it to rulesets released by smaller collaborations of SBR members such as UmbreonMow, you can see that there are very opposing opinions on which mindset to adopt with the ruleset.Last Post I made said:
Conservative rulesets are like yours Ryan. Rulesets which shape and refine the game in such a way that they believe allows for extreme balance.
Liberal rulesets are like the ones we've had, or Melbourne's had in the past. Liberal minded ruleset developer's seek to change as little of the game as possible (this is outside of turning off items, etc), banning only the stages that are deemed unfit for a competitive environment due to player abuse (Such as stages where circle camping is possible).
Now if EVERYONE posted here that they would be in favor of an extremely conservative ruleset, I would be inclined to make it so (But would debate the point nonetheless - if only to play devil's advocate in a one - sided trial).
It's important that well constructed arguments exist for both sides of the coin, otherwise who's to know that what we're doing is right and healthy for the competitive smash scene?
I am asking for your opinions to see if you can give me anything that I'll agree with and I do listen otherwise I wouldn't take the time to debate it. The whole prize money fiasco before didn't agree with me until Scrub's made a post (which was then refined by Cao) that clicked with me, causing me to come round to your side of the argument.
It's not that I don't agree, or won't take any opinion. As I said, I do. If you can construct reasoning such as the way Scrubs did which spurred me to include a pot for Melee. If you really want to see that ruleset implemented at LanSmash, you'll debate the point. As I've said, I'm not opposed to the idea, but given the fact that other players in the scene want a bit more variety than that and my current view of what promotes competitive play I can't bring myself to change it.
I'll apologise though. I'm taking this a little too far than what it needs to be, and making myself out to be a real douche in the process. I won't challenge whatever rebuttal you make because you already said that you'll play whatever stage list is implemented.
We should have a test run Conservative Stage List tournament soon though. Perhaps at Bob + Dino's tournament coming up?
I've also stated that I'll agree with it if either I myself have simply not considered it and can see the evidence for it myself, or if you take an existing stance and provide evidence yourself that sways me.
Such as here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7117487&postcount=208
Just looking at the rule set and found this
Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 2,271
- Location
- Kings Park, Melbourne
- NNID
- Jei_Soul
- 3DS FC
- 1564-4103-8935
My guess is that those particular stages provide 100% success at running away though...
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
2 long to read its like law..
the only law i follow is the man code... and that more of a code than a law.
gentlemens rule - in a manly match no projectiles !~!@~!@#@#$1
the only law i follow is the man code... and that more of a code than a law.
gentlemens rule - in a manly match no projectiles !~!@~!@#@#$1
undead_moose
Smash Lord
I should wear a top hat and monicle into the arcade
then they will know I am a lady.... Wait no
then they will know I am a lady.... Wait no
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
orly my owls disagree
so who brings the sf4
so who brings the sf4
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Soo the offical stage list is...?
I'll get to it soon Ryan.
It'll probably look something similar to the SBR 2.0 ruleset which just came out.
undead_moose
Smash Lord
Wish people would stop having a hard on for SBR.
Oh wait right.
wIs Pople wood sop haVin a had on for sbR
Oh wait right.
wIs Pople wood sop haVin a had on for sbR
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Ok first off. If your going to say things like:
Originally Posted by Caotique
if ramdoms are going to be turned away from a tourney because of $5 or so, they're not even competitive enough anyway. They don't matter in the long run
Originally Posted by Vyse
That.
I think is what I needed to read.
Don't Say:
Originally Posted by Vyse
I want to host tournaments that are competitive, but still offer enough variety to attract new people to it.
Now i have looked over things and seems were debating one neutral stage. What counterpicks you want you haven't expressed. I don't think anyway? Direct me if you have.
So we have both agreed on:
Final Destination
Battlefield
Smashville
You think:
Yoshis island(Brawl)
With the inclusion and/of:
Pokemon Stadium
Delfino Plaza
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Now one of your main basis of arugment has been the fact that even though these stages don't fit into parameters of my stage list that:
Originally Posted by Vyse
If you don't like Yoshi's Island (Brawl) and Castle Siege? Strike em! Simple as that.
Stage striking itself has not been implemented (properly) and yet without debate such as the current one seems to have be forced upon. This has not once been debated at all for this tournament yet you use it as reasoning to combat the use of stages that have not been agreed apon. However i will address your pros for each stage.
Poke Stadium:
Adv:
- Nice flat stage - Agreed.
- Two platforms - Advantage How?
- Transformations are mostly balanced and not permanent - Mostly? Not good enough. Transformed stages entirely unbalanced.
Lylat Cruise:
Adv:
- Single definite platform - Definite? You even say in your Cons that it moves.
- Three platforms - Again advantage how?
Delfino Plaza:
Adv:
- Flat stage with varying platforms (most of the time) - Too much varying (most of the time)
- Transformations not permanent - Being permanent or not means nothing. Your opponent will not wait for the stage to transform back. Transformed stages entirely unbalanced.
Castle Siege:
Adv:
- Flat Stage - Agreed.
- Varying Platforms preventing projectile camping and walkoff abuse - The 2nd transformation is nothing but walk off abuse. How do the platforms prevent this?
- Transformations extremely predictable (They never change in order) - Contradiction. I think you mean they always change in order. Which is not an advantage if what they transform into are unbalanced. Same reason as above as well.
You've also included:
Originally Posted by Vyse
Because of this wonderful thing called stage striking you don't have to play on this stage if you perceive your opponent to be one to attempt to abuse this. (Every matchup outside of Dedede should be able to play on this stage without too much hassle).
I've given reason about stage striking already.
And go on to say:
Originally Posted by Vyse
Even if you do end up facing Dedede here, you can simply camp the multiple platforms and play keep away until the transformation ends.
You shouldn't have to implicate camping and "play keep away" just to compensate for a unbalanced stage. Otherwise put every stage in and tell us exactly where to camp on every stage so that it keeps it balanced.
And you have given no reason for yoshis island brawl except for the fact that:
Originally Posted by Vyse
Yoshi's Island (Brawl) is more neutral than Final Destination. A flat stage without platforms makes for a very one sided match against a skilled Diddy/Snake/ROB/Anyone who benefits from so much open space.
Doesnt fit into the parameters set. And your basing your argument here on character advantage not stage.
Vyse it seems like you want to have 5 stages for some reason. That it's an absolute must. But why is this? You say:
Originally Posted by Vyse
we need 5. I think 3 starters is dangerously low (even if most of the time those three are the ones chosen through stage striking)
Dangerously low how? And if these are the three that are going to be chosen through stage striking anyway whats the point of having the others.
Nothing is more serious than when your playing for money. This is competitive play this is to prove who exactly is the better player. Its not about how fun the game is. When your playing friendlies pick any stage you want it doesn't matter. But when your playing for someones hard earned cash. A more serious approach is definetly needed.
Originally Posted by Caotique
if ramdoms are going to be turned away from a tourney because of $5 or so, they're not even competitive enough anyway. They don't matter in the long run
Originally Posted by Vyse
That.
I think is what I needed to read.
Don't Say:
Originally Posted by Vyse
I want to host tournaments that are competitive, but still offer enough variety to attract new people to it.
Now i have looked over things and seems were debating one neutral stage. What counterpicks you want you haven't expressed. I don't think anyway? Direct me if you have.
So we have both agreed on:
Final Destination
Battlefield
Smashville
You think:
Yoshis island(Brawl)
With the inclusion and/of:
Pokemon Stadium
Delfino Plaza
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Now one of your main basis of arugment has been the fact that even though these stages don't fit into parameters of my stage list that:
Originally Posted by Vyse
If you don't like Yoshi's Island (Brawl) and Castle Siege? Strike em! Simple as that.
Stage striking itself has not been implemented (properly) and yet without debate such as the current one seems to have be forced upon. This has not once been debated at all for this tournament yet you use it as reasoning to combat the use of stages that have not been agreed apon. However i will address your pros for each stage.
Poke Stadium:
Adv:
- Nice flat stage - Agreed.
- Two platforms - Advantage How?
- Transformations are mostly balanced and not permanent - Mostly? Not good enough. Transformed stages entirely unbalanced.
Lylat Cruise:
Adv:
- Single definite platform - Definite? You even say in your Cons that it moves.
- Three platforms - Again advantage how?
Delfino Plaza:
Adv:
- Flat stage with varying platforms (most of the time) - Too much varying (most of the time)
- Transformations not permanent - Being permanent or not means nothing. Your opponent will not wait for the stage to transform back. Transformed stages entirely unbalanced.
Castle Siege:
Adv:
- Flat Stage - Agreed.
- Varying Platforms preventing projectile camping and walkoff abuse - The 2nd transformation is nothing but walk off abuse. How do the platforms prevent this?
- Transformations extremely predictable (They never change in order) - Contradiction. I think you mean they always change in order. Which is not an advantage if what they transform into are unbalanced. Same reason as above as well.
You've also included:
Originally Posted by Vyse
Because of this wonderful thing called stage striking you don't have to play on this stage if you perceive your opponent to be one to attempt to abuse this. (Every matchup outside of Dedede should be able to play on this stage without too much hassle).
I've given reason about stage striking already.
And go on to say:
Originally Posted by Vyse
Even if you do end up facing Dedede here, you can simply camp the multiple platforms and play keep away until the transformation ends.
You shouldn't have to implicate camping and "play keep away" just to compensate for a unbalanced stage. Otherwise put every stage in and tell us exactly where to camp on every stage so that it keeps it balanced.
And you have given no reason for yoshis island brawl except for the fact that:
Originally Posted by Vyse
Yoshi's Island (Brawl) is more neutral than Final Destination. A flat stage without platforms makes for a very one sided match against a skilled Diddy/Snake/ROB/Anyone who benefits from so much open space.
Doesnt fit into the parameters set. And your basing your argument here on character advantage not stage.
Vyse it seems like you want to have 5 stages for some reason. That it's an absolute must. But why is this? You say:
Originally Posted by Vyse
we need 5. I think 3 starters is dangerously low (even if most of the time those three are the ones chosen through stage striking)
Dangerously low how? And if these are the three that are going to be chosen through stage striking anyway whats the point of having the others.
Nothing is more serious than when your playing for money. This is competitive play this is to prove who exactly is the better player. Its not about how fun the game is. When your playing friendlies pick any stage you want it doesn't matter. But when your playing for someones hard earned cash. A more serious approach is definetly needed.
undead_moose
Smash Lord
Fox only
No items
Final destination.
But anthony ryan managed to beat you at your own game....
Someone play the piano for me
No items
Final destination.
But anthony ryan managed to beat you at your own game....
Someone play the piano for me
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Also:
-The semi-final and championship sets should be in at least best of 5 format.
-Dedede's standing infinte is banned.
Agree?
-The semi-final and championship sets should be in at least best of 5 format.
-Dedede's standing infinte is banned.
Agree?
What song shall we be playing at the piano tonight?
Let's play with the world's smallest orchestra.
And let's play some Shined Blind with said orchestra.
Then we can have the best No items, Fox only, Final Destination party ever!
Let's play with the world's smallest orchestra.
And let's play some Shined Blind with said orchestra.
Then we can have the best No items, Fox only, Final Destination party ever!
undead_moose
Smash Lord
Oh ****ing God No
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
Can we play melee now?
undead_moose
Smash Lord
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
**** that i want to play 3 sets for the finals XP
King Kong
Smash Lord
Woooo!!!!! A melee tournament on a Sunday? thats like a dream come true for me. I will be there in bells and whistles, providing i can grab a lift with Ben. Not sure about saturday i'll see how much money i have around that time.
Peace out
Peace out
The spam in here is petting pretty ridiculous. Refrain from short/one-liner posts. If you find you can't extend your posts without talking about crap, don't post at all. I don't mind the occisional one-liner, but people who spam one-liners/short posts piss me off.
Yey Joshy coming to play <3 Melee for everyone. I just played some Canadians and it was ****ing refreshing
Yey Joshy coming to play <3 Melee for everyone. I just played some Canadians and it was ****ing refreshing
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
The reason we do best of 5 only in the champ bracket is to make it even for the rest of the bracket. When you look at it the winners and losers bracket are connected but the winner of the winners bracket and losers bracket move into the championship bracket where it becomes a best of 5. It's kept at a best of 3 throughout so that its completely even for all players until only 2 are left.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Bit hard to listen to you ***** about one line posts when your first three in this thread alone are one liners.
Is there a good reason why the other thread was deleted? You could easy have just did an edit>poll.
Seriously. I don't mind the occasional hypocritical post but people who are consistently hypocrites just piss me off.
undead_moose
Smash Lord
Funny thing is if cao takes action and bans all the spammers
It will be anthony talking to himself.
I was more objecting to the semi final having to go through sets of 5. I honestly dont see why there are sets of 5 in the first place soon someone will want to play a set of 9 or something stupid AND EVERYONE WILL AGREE. I mean atm its like winners have to play 3 sets of 5 sets but if its raining outside they have to go to final destination first if sunny then battlefield is banned. Seriously tho I swear at lansmash we had like 3 sets of 5 sets and everyone was fine with it i mean jesus do they honestly need that many games. If 5 sets seems more Fair (****ing i respelled that word 5 times and diddnt get it) Then shouldnt it be in from the start seeming as pros ***** and whine about needing more games to beat them or something it seems pretty stupid.
Rant over
Expecting infraction from cao any minute now
EDIT: HONESTLY CAO A INFRACTION FOR THAT SORRY I DONT HAVE TIME TO TURN OFF MY SIGNITURE WHEN I WANT TO MAKE A QUICK QUOTE POST AND LEAVE. CAN I USE MY SIGNITURE NOW?! NO?! FAR OUT IVE FELT LIKE **** ALL WEEKEND AND THAT WAS REALLY THE ICEING ON THE TURD CAKE
It will be anthony talking to himself.
I was more objecting to the semi final having to go through sets of 5. I honestly dont see why there are sets of 5 in the first place soon someone will want to play a set of 9 or something stupid AND EVERYONE WILL AGREE. I mean atm its like winners have to play 3 sets of 5 sets but if its raining outside they have to go to final destination first if sunny then battlefield is banned. Seriously tho I swear at lansmash we had like 3 sets of 5 sets and everyone was fine with it i mean jesus do they honestly need that many games. If 5 sets seems more Fair (****ing i respelled that word 5 times and diddnt get it) Then shouldnt it be in from the start seeming as pros ***** and whine about needing more games to beat them or something it seems pretty stupid.
Rant over
Expecting infraction from cao any minute now
EDIT: HONESTLY CAO A INFRACTION FOR THAT SORRY I DONT HAVE TIME TO TURN OFF MY SIGNITURE WHEN I WANT TO MAKE A QUICK QUOTE POST AND LEAVE. CAN I USE MY SIGNITURE NOW?! NO?! FAR OUT IVE FELT LIKE **** ALL WEEKEND AND THAT WAS REALLY THE ICEING ON THE TURD CAKE
swordsaint
Smash Master
Smashboards rules are too...serious. Sometimes when making your point you just can't extend it past one line, and giving you the option for signatures providing ALL or MOST of your posts are larger than it, is just baiting you into getting infractions.
Let loose, we're all here to have fun, the fun dies when you have some stuck-up moderators telling everyone what they can and can't do when their actions aren't hurting anyone.
Yes, keep editing your edit Moose. That'll teach them.
If I get banned, I actually think that goes to prove my point.
Let loose, we're all here to have fun, the fun dies when you have some stuck-up moderators telling everyone what they can and can't do when their actions aren't hurting anyone.
Yes, keep editing your edit Moose. That'll teach them.
If I get banned, I actually think that goes to prove my point.
Swordsaint - Like I said, I don't really mind one-liners used on occasion. This is a general warning about spam, where some of the more recent posts I have infracted have only existed to boost post count or add useless banter that is irrelevant to the purpose of this thread. One-lining mulitple times per thread per day is pretty much what I'm referring to. If you need a basic example, here it is:
Person X - casual banter
Person Y - casual banter
Person X - casual banter
Person A - with actual discussion
Person Y - casual banter
Person X - casual banter
Person Y- casual banter
Person X - Yay 1000 posts woot
Have I given you any infractions? No. This means I generally have no problems with your posting style (although with most things, could be improved). Read the Western Sydney thread. Look at the one-liners there. I haven't infracted anyone there either. The only type of one-line spam I'm hunting down is the extremely useless ones that accumulate fast. Someone only gets banned if they repeatedly offend, so are expected to know the rules. Also, these bans typically last 7 days, after that everything is effectively reset. It is not permanent unless offenses are extremely serious.
Also, the forum has strict boundaries, for a good reason - you should know why this is. There is a lot of traffic in these forums and there is also a lot of important activity happening as well. We (mods) would like to keep all activities in their appropriate places without making the place look trashy. If you feel I am becoming a problem, you can take the issue up with Forum Disputes. Calling me stuck-up is not the best way to go about things. Read the forum rules in my stickied post if you haven't already. If you have, you really shouldn't be defending people without knowing exactly what I infracted them for. Take it up in a PM with me if you want a clearer outline.
"Sometimes when making your point you just can't extend it past one line, and giving you the option for signatures providing ALL or MOST of your posts are larger than it, is just baiting you into getting infractions."
You can. Just don't do it many many times per day. That is all. This also applies to short posts.
Moose - You can use your signature whenever there the post is larger than your sig. Except spreading out your text to cheat the system doesn't exactly work. It's supposed to be applied to longer lengths of text, but I don't infract unless it's clearly obvious the post is small.
_________
Consider this my only response to the matter. Anyone wanting to take it up with me is more than welcome through PM.
and back to the topic we go...
Person X - casual banter
Person Y - casual banter
Person X - casual banter
Person A - with actual discussion
Person Y - casual banter
Person X - casual banter
Person Y- casual banter
Person X - Yay 1000 posts woot
Have I given you any infractions? No. This means I generally have no problems with your posting style (although with most things, could be improved). Read the Western Sydney thread. Look at the one-liners there. I haven't infracted anyone there either. The only type of one-line spam I'm hunting down is the extremely useless ones that accumulate fast. Someone only gets banned if they repeatedly offend, so are expected to know the rules. Also, these bans typically last 7 days, after that everything is effectively reset. It is not permanent unless offenses are extremely serious.
Also, the forum has strict boundaries, for a good reason - you should know why this is. There is a lot of traffic in these forums and there is also a lot of important activity happening as well. We (mods) would like to keep all activities in their appropriate places without making the place look trashy. If you feel I am becoming a problem, you can take the issue up with Forum Disputes. Calling me stuck-up is not the best way to go about things. Read the forum rules in my stickied post if you haven't already. If you have, you really shouldn't be defending people without knowing exactly what I infracted them for. Take it up in a PM with me if you want a clearer outline.
"Sometimes when making your point you just can't extend it past one line, and giving you the option for signatures providing ALL or MOST of your posts are larger than it, is just baiting you into getting infractions."
You can. Just don't do it many many times per day. That is all. This also applies to short posts.
Moose - You can use your signature whenever there the post is larger than your sig. Except spreading out your text to cheat the system doesn't exactly work. It's supposed to be applied to longer lengths of text, but I don't infract unless it's clearly obvious the post is small.
_________
Consider this my only response to the matter. Anyone wanting to take it up with me is more than welcome through PM.
and back to the topic we go...
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
mmm, i usually type enough in each post i think... oh well yes the Lan smash
i got the yes :3 so you'll see up there for sure ^_^, I haven't gone to Queensland in agess
i got the yes :3 so you'll see up there for sure ^_^, I haven't gone to Queensland in agess
- Status