Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[Milln]

*points to Infi's guide*
Lucario's Down-B is commonly reffered to as Double Team, (DT), and is a counter. To use it, just get hit in the begining of the attack to counter.DT is usually frowned upon among most Lucario playstyles, but some use it more than others. It drips with lag when you miss an attack, and is easily sheilded when it DOES counter one.

Again, I'll point to Infi's guide, although it is kinda old with the new metagame research and all.

What new metagame research?

 

[tedward2000]

Guys, New Metagame Research or not. DT will have little to no uses in actual matches unless Items are falling from the sky.

The only thing I have found New with DT, is being able to short hop DT backwards. Your moving backwards, while countering. So you land behind your original spot either a little or a good amount, by using Double Team.

Useful? Not really.
Fancy? Buckets fancy.
-t2

 

[Aurasmash14]

Lol he's right. but hopefully the metagame research can dig up something useful.

 

[phi1ny3]

I've always had this question: what are our grabs in order from most vertical range to least? Does FP really have more vertical grab range than grab? What about pivot/dash grab? If so, I think I'll do some more "brainstorming".

 

[hough123]

What new metagame research?

The brainstorming topic has a bit of new info.

To Tedward: I wasn't talking about DT. It has, and always will, suck. (Unless we find out that it can OHKO if we cancel it with an ES and count to ten, but what are the cahnces of that?)

 

[Milln]

I've always had this question: what are our grabs in order from most vertical range to least? Does FP really have more vertical grab range than grab? What about pivot/dash grab? If so, I think I'll do some more "brainstorming".

FPGrab and Grab have more or less vertical range. It's the horizontal that makes them different. Besides, vertical range is difficult to test because it seems to vary whether the opponent is traveling upward or downward, how their character model is, etc.

 

[Smoo]

Why don't you make a Lucario mentoring thread? It will bring in new people wanting to get good with Lucario. These hopefulls are then raised by experienced lucario players and so this board has more people. If there a more people there could be a rise in discoveries for lucario and he can take his rightfull place in the S (maybe A but S is preferable) tier, it just depends on if you people try it out. You never know if a newbie may have stumbled on a new technique or something.

Your thoughts?

 

[Aurasmash14]

what exactly do you mean by mentoring thread?

 

[tedward2000]

He means something along the lines of a thread that ppl wanting help ask on and actually get help from experienced players.

Like a personal trainer via thread.
Which would be a great idea!... If people listened...*cough*

Oh and Smoo, DRCarneiro, I have some of his stuff faved, like your avatar for example.
-t2

 

[Aurasmash14]

That would be a great thread! if most l the more experienced ones havent left already >_> its kinda sad how most new Lucario's have to learn their own way on how to play luc (but seriously wouldnt it be cool for the newbies to learn from Azen? or Milln? or *insert your fav here*)

 

[Milln]

I stopped coming here (save for a few threads) because the board is infested with people that don't listen and people who don't even main Lucario trying to give us crap/troll. There's no point in teaching a brick wall. You revamp the people into Lucarios that -want- to learn, I'll come back and help out. (Azen doesn't Play Lucario anymore. He plays everyone.)

 

[Smoo]

Who will make this thread and see if it works?

 

[phi1ny3]

We don't have many people who exactly "amazing" in terms of tourney standings to get something like this going, Lee hardly comes here (and he usually will tell you limitations of the character), and others seem pretty peeved at the stigma these boards generated (until recently).
Oh, and there are rumors Azen might've quit. I dunno for sure, but one of his video uploaders said he's "disappeared".

 

[Smoo]

We need to turn Lucario around somehow What great players are there who can teach?

 

[phi1ny3]

Frankly, I totally agree, we've pretty much had an identity crisis lol. I'd frankly suggest that if we can get people more open to what they have to say, then we could try it. A good plan B is to get them to AIM or something privately to help you.

 

[iRJi]

That would be a great thread! if most l the more experienced ones havent left already >_> its kinda sad how most new Lucario's have to learn their own way on how to play luc (but seriously wouldnt it be cool for the newbies to learn from Azen? or Milln? or *insert your fav here*)

I'm still here you know >_>. The thread seems like something entertaining to do, and i obviously would like to add onto it. xD

 

[hough123]

Frankly, I totally agree, we've pretty much had an identity crisis lol. I'd frankly suggest that if we can get people more open to what they have to say, then we could try it. A good plan B is to get them to AIM or something privately to help you.

I have an idea for the teacher system; there could be six levels of student\teacher

New Student- New to the boards, and is learning the basics of Lucario. (They may also be learning the basics of smash as well.)

Student- Has taken a class or two, and is semi-familiar to Lucario's playstyle and techniques.

Experienced Student- Has taken multiple classes, and may have gone to a tournement to test thier skills. These players are very familiar with all things regarding Lucario.

Graduate- A student who has taken enough classes to enter the smash scene and thrive. Graduates may become apprentices under teachers if they'd like.
-----------------------------------
Teacher- Teaches students, and can take up apprentices. Teachers are seasoned smash players that teach a group of students via chatroom.

Guru- Picks out and teaches teachers. A Guru is a pro smasher with enough ecperience under thier belt to dominate.

I don't know how a student\teacher system could work, but these ranks might help
(I was uber bored.)

 

[Scinn]

witch throw should you use more d throw or u throw

 

[D. Disciple]

Varies on situations. Opponent's percent and Lucario's Percent as well.

Low percent, uthrow would be the best to use. Since it can lead into utilts/usmash, and if you're facing Fox or whatever. You can chain grab them until 20%.

Mid percent I would use dthrow, for if your opponent screws up on DIing properly. You can chain it into fairs and dair gimps.

 

[iRJi]

Varies on situations. Opponent's percent and Lucario's Percent as well.

Low percent, uthrow would be the best to use. Since it can lead into utilts/usmash, and if you're facing Fox or whatever. You can chain grab them until 20%.

Mid percent I would use dthrow, for if your opponent screws up on DIing properly. You can chain it into fairs and dair gimps.

Actually I wouldn't lol. Uthrow is for setups. If you can chain it to something else then that would be your best choice. Dthrow is for damage as well as Bthrow. They both deal 10. if you can't chain with Usmash then Dthrow is your best option.

 

[phi1ny3]

dthrow on heavies is also good for setups/strings. I can literally do fair strings on bowser/d3 if I do dthrow, and most of the time the fair will connect.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I stopped coming here (save for a few threads) because the board is infested with people that don't listen and people who don't even main Lucario trying to give us crap/troll. There's no point in teaching a brick wall. You revamp the people into Lucarios that -want- to learn, I'll come back and help out. (Azen doesn't Play Lucario anymore. He plays everyone.)

I wonder what went wrong? Lucs to stubborn? it would be great if you comeback to help though. I wonder too how we got all these noncario's to just come in here and start trolling.

 

[Smoo]

Who will make the teacher thread and when? I'm kinda inexperienced so it'd be better if someone else made it. For awsome pictures my freind is drawing some as he draws manga/animé. I think it'll work. Classes should run for 1-2 weeks pending on how much gets done.

 

[Alus]

I'm pretty sure that the thread will fail...

 

[Smoo]

Its worth a try isn't it?

 

[Alus]

Do any of you guys know where to find a death chart?

You know...Showing when Lucario kills at specific percents when at the aura of zero percent?

Im getting tired of guessing kill %s

 

[phi1ny3]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171016
It's a bit old (hence the 180% or whatever it is), but I think this is the thread you were looking for, correct?

 

[Milln]

That would be a great thread! if most l the more experienced ones havent left already >_> its kinda sad how most new Lucario's have to learn their own way on how to play luc (but seriously wouldnt it be cool for the newbies to learn from Azen? or Milln? or *insert your fav here*)

I would also like to note that Lee has quit Lucario. I heard it through the grapevine. (Chillvine)

 

[phi1ny3]

Called it.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Lee quit lucario eh? well its not as if he didnt show signs of it first. lol i would be all like zomg! if school didnt tire me out completely. who's Lee's new main?

edit- there goes another good lucario. *sigh* there are more people leaving luc than newbies arriving. this better stop before Luc hits rock bottom.

oh and who will open up the teacher thread? at worst the thread will fail. no harm in trying right?

 

[Loota]

Who is the best secondary for Lucario besides D3 (and MK of course)? I don't actually like playing them so who would be good also? I think my Snake is pretty good but I'd like to have another trusty secondary

 

[phi1ny3]

There isn't truly anyone to cover up all of lucario's weaknesses (D3 gets killed by G&W and MK, which are not so great for lucario as well).
Frankly, I like wario if you really want to cover up as many possible weaknesses (except he's not so great vs. Marth).
In all honesty, imo it's either go full lucario, use MK as secondary, or hit it up with your favorite of the "great 8" (since G&W recently dropped a bit) tiered characters.

 

[Timbers]

I personally think Luc's 3 hardest matchups are Snake, DDD, Olimar.

If you want to hit those three hard you could probably use Falco as a secondary.

 

[phi1ny3]

Falco is good.
Kirby's not too bad either, except that snake does pretty well against him.
Marth is imo really close up there on all those tough matches, he's got a wicked punisher, and with the exception of projectile, weight, and killing more or less, eclipses us in everything.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

Personally, I say second D3 or Marth, but that's because they cover the match-ups that I hate. Your secondary should be the character that best covers the holes left by your Lucario.

Now for what I came to talk about, Lucario's blind spot. Yesterday, I played against a Diddy who would rush up to me, just outside my grab range, whenever I gave him the chance. Every time, my knee-jerk reaction was to throw out an attack (typically an f-tilt) to out prioritize his potential attack or force him back, but every time, he shielded me and got a free grab. Looking back, my safest options were to dodgeroll back or jump. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lucario should normally be retreating against an unarmed Diddy, and any aerials I throw out will be poorly spaced and easily punished. I get the feeling that other characters should be able to abuse this to if there's no reasonable way around it. Help!

 

[180sx]

What are lucario's best punishing moves?

 

[D. Disciple]

Now for what I came to talk about, Lucario's blind spot. Yesterday, I played against a Diddy who would rush up to me, just outside my grab range, whenever I gave him the chance. Every time, my knee-jerk reaction was to throw out an attack (typically an f-tilt) to out prioritize his potential attack or force him back, but every time, he shielded me and got a free grab. Looking back, my safest options were to dodgeroll back or jump. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lucario should normally be retreating against an unarmed Diddy, and any aerials I throw out will be poorly spaced and easily punished. I get the feeling that other characters should be able to abuse this to if there's no reasonable way around it. Help!

Okay for that, you kept falling for the same trap over and over. But you should not retreat from an unarmed Diddy. If he's running at you without an banana, in your case they are gonna perfect shield grab you when you attack, or they will spotdodge you into an attack or grab if you misread it. You have some options for this actually.

You can execute a well timed fsmash, so they have to perfect shield the aura. I suggest that you do a retreat stutter stepped fsmash (RSS) to give yourself some more breathing room. If i'm correct only MK is fast enough to PS Dash Grab Lucario's Fsmash.

You can also run up to them as well, do an empty hop. They'll try to perfect shield into a grab assuming you're going to fair them. If you don't then they'll try to spotdodge, when they do keep the hop empty until you see the spotdodge then immediately let out a dair.

and probably the best bet, you can spam bas at the charging Diddy to slow him down.

Just reconsider your options a bit more. If you keep doing the same thing, then try to realize it and work around that situation.

What are lucario's best punishing moves?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237886 we're actually trying to discuss them as well. Since it depends on what you want to use as a punishing move. My favorite is hopping above opponents and dair them.

 

[iRJi]

Okay for that, you kept falling for the same trap over and over. But you should not retreat from an unarmed Diddy. If he's running at you without an banana, in your case they are gonna perfect shield grab you when you attack, or they will spotdodge you into an attack or grab if you misread it. You have some options for this actually.

You can execute a well timed fsmash, so they have to perfect shield the aura. I suggest that you do a retreat stutter stepped fsmash (RSS) to give yourself some more breathing room. If i'm correct only MK is fast enough to PS Dash Grab Lucario's Fsmash.

You can also run up to them as well, do an empty hop. They'll try to perfect shield into a grab assuming you're going to fair them. If you don't then they'll try to spotdodge, when they do keep the hop empty until you see the spotdodge then immediately let out a dair.

and probably the best bet, you can spam bas at the charging Diddy to slow him down.

Just reconsider your options a bit more. If you keep doing the same thing, then try to realize it and work around that situation.



http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237886 we're actually trying to discuss them as well. Since it depends on what you want to use as a punishing move. My favorite is hopping above opponents and dair them.

There are more also, I just brought it up because we were doing MK at the time. The characters who can punish you are MK, Wolf, and supposedly Sonic, but I am testing on the sonic one. Just clearing that up, everything else seem A.O.K.

About Diddy, if he does not have a banana, charge him. Him not having a banana is like marth not using his sword. Against Lucario, he needs to pressure with banana to get in close without getting punished hard for it, mainly because we beat him out in close range combat and also in the air. So really, just apply pressure with close range combat if he comes in with out a banana. If he does come in with a banana, get it off the field as fast as possible. Diddy's main weak spot is that his banana Pluck is about 30 ish frames, so you can punish him there when he tries to get them. Of course if he knows that you can punish him he wont pick them until he is completely open, but then again you want to get him to fight without the bananas to begin with, so its all good.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

Thanks for the advice, I've been getting stomped by Diddy at my last few tourneys. This should make fixing that problem a lot easier.

 

[F1ZZ]

What are lucario's best punishing moves?

Lucario's best punishing moves is AS, Dsmash, Fsmash.