Proposal for a uniform national stage list

[Bsrk_]

Well it seems the debate within the Perth thread is still smouldering so i have instead acted upon Summoner's suggestion and created this proposal_ This thread can then be used as a discussion stage for the Australian scene if anything should arise_

PROPOSAL :
To construct a uniform stage list that will be used as a guideline throughout Australia for tournaments.

A group of panelists will be selected to discuss what stages we feel the Australian smash scene deem viable and will announce a set list that will be used as a guideline for all future Australian tournaments. Panelists should have a through understanding of stage mechanics and should have experience and knowledge on how stages affect the counterpicking system for a variety of characters. Two panelists will be chosen (via a process of nomination) from each state and panelists will discuss and propose a recommended stage list for use in Australia. The panelists will then publish their recommendations for a national list and stages and their reasoning behind it. Notable arguments for and against should also be mentioned as to avoid future 'hurr durr'.

So for now i ask the question_ Should we have a uniform stage list that is used nation wide for ALL tournaments_? Feel free to discuss your arguments for and against in this thread_



*special thanks to Summoner's new proposal statement_

 

[luke_atyeo]

as good as the idea might seem, regarding this
"Anything that doesn't use the uniform stage list will be regarded as friendly matches or social gatherings"

seems quite pretentious really, if a scene or a TO decides he wants a different list, he should be able to use such a list without his tourney then being branded with a "not real" sticker

 

[C~Dog]

A uniform stagelist would be nothing but good.

EDIT: also what luke said

 

[Aussierob123]

I cant think of 2 smashers in qld that have an equal and deep understanding of each smash game, or are you picking a panelist focusing on brawl and a panelist focusing on melee?

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

I can't think of any..

 

[J-Birds]

As good as this would be i really don't think it would work.
There is already enough debate within states trying to agree at the moment let alone the whole nation.

 

[Bsrk_]

Sorry i should really tag it for Brawl_ Nice question Rob but i intended it to be aimed at Brawl considering melee seems to have it's head screwed on alot more currently_

In regards to your comment Luke_ Well technically if we allowed TO's to have whatever stage list they want then it would defeat the purpose of having a uniform stage list nationally then_ The main intention is also by having a stage list that constantly gets used by EVERYONE then we avoid confusion during each tournament with people asking what stages are usable_ Also it shows players which stages to focus their attention on and creates better player awareness as people can begin learning about the stages available for either starter (striking) or CP use_

Although some players already understand which stages allow what, many do not, and by eliminating unnecessary confusion, players can readily put the effort into learning the stages that will be allowed in tournament play_ Urgh probably went in circles there hope it made sense_ Fixing for ARob now_

 

[SummonerAU]

Yeah pretty much what Luke said.

Much better idea if it's only implementing the stage list at majors. There's nothing stopping TO's from using the list decided upon but just because they have/don't have 'x' stage doesn't mean it's any less of a tourney. It also prevents TOs experimenting with different ideas as the stage list will probably continue to change as scenes progress. It TOs to actually present DATA on stages and their impact instead of the panel becoming a giant cluster**** of theory smash brother brawl. It also gives OoS a list they know and won't lead them to be getting beaten on 'x' stage they don't normally play on.

If the panel ever does go ahead, a criteria for banning should be made up. I know Shaya had a pretty decent one had one point in time.

I also think that while the panel can decide on their choices, all reasoning for stages being included/excluded should be made available to the public.

 

[Bsrk_]

Nothing stops people from still testing stages or using them during friendly gatherings_ Creating a uniform stage list for all tournaments generally means that, ALL tournaments_ If we allowed TOs to continue using whatever stages they feel then it will just continue to be the situation it is (see Perth thread)_

As for the panel, it would be a majority rules_ If the majority agree then it's agreed and vice versa_ if you select the right panelists i don't see how this would become a shtstorm if people discuss it in a formal and intellectual matter_ if you feel X person is going to start pointless arguments then don't vote them to be panelists_

I totally agree with your other points on criteria and public knowledge Summoner_ Realistically if you choose people who are able to discuss the situation on an intellectual level then you will avoid all major conflict and agreements should be met quickly and efficiently_

 

[EverAlert]

I also agree with Luke.

A tournament is a tournament, regardless of its stage list. From what I understand, the goal isn't to force us to always play on a uniform stage list, but to have a standardised list that we can refer to, e.g. when travelling OOS for a major (or organising one).

If we don't have room to experiment, how will we grow?

 

[True Romance]

Top players from each state, form a panel and discuss a nation wide stage list. Panel remains in place for further discussions or changes down the track.

A national stage list would be the greatest thing ever.

 

[Bsrk_]

You need to look outside the box E_ You state that it doesn't give you room to experiment but what is stopping you from grouping together and testing these stages out_? You grow only by allowing yourself to and if you merely state that my proposal is stopping you then you have some hurdles to overcome_

The reality is that experimentation will take place only if people decide to take the initiative and do it_ Requiring someones permission or having them hold your hand so you can do it just sounds like excuses to me_ No offense if i seem harsh_

 

[Mic_128]

as good as the idea might seem, regarding this
"Anything that doesn't use the uniform stage list will be regarded as friendly matches or social gatherings"

seems quite pretentious really, if a scene or a TO decides he wants a different list, he should be able to use such a list without his tourney then being branded with a "not real" sticker

This is exactly why it's the "Recommended Back Room rules" as opposed to 'Official smash ruleset.'

 

[luke_atyeo]

good one mic, nice contrabution of nothing (this is exactly what I was getting at in the perth thread)

why is that another dumb statement? because bsrk's proposal states that it must follow the unified stage list to count as a tourney

the sbr's ruleset states, multiple times I believe, that its a guideline that does not need to be followed in the slightest.

see the difference there?

 

[Bsrk_]

Luke my proposal is merely that, a proposal_ No need to get all worked up about it_ If majority agrees on something then who am i to force my opinions onto them_? Mic's post made sense to me and actually helped me better understand where you were coming from_ Your point is valid Luke, if there is any dispute it is not hard to change my proposal so as not to create any further arguments_ It is just a proposal people, if you need a definition i will post it_

 

[EverAlert]

You need to look outside the box E_ You state that it doesn't give you room to experiment but what is stopping you from grouping together and testing these stages out_? You grow only by allowing yourself to and if you merely state that my proposal is stopping you then you have some hurdles to overcome_

The reality is that experimentation will take place only if people decide to take the initiative and do it_ Requiring someones permission or having them hold your hand so you can do it just sounds like excuses to me_ No offense if i seem harsh_

Way to miss the point.

I'm not saying anything like this stops us from experimenting, just that it adds unnecessary stigma to a tournament just for using a (probably only very slightly) different stage list. Sorry, but nobody is going to -not- call something a tournament when it clearly is a competitive gathering with an organised format and a clear winner, regardless of the stage list.

 

[luke_atyeo]

nah its all good dude, I'm not raging at you, I'm just having this semi fued with mic atm where basically I'm saying everything he comes in saying is dumb, and he says its not dumb, so I face palm and try to show him what's up.

 

[Shaya]

The best players from each state making a stage list who some find it insanely gay they dont get smashville or final destination as their starter stage whilst using Diddy Kong? yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Also the only active states of Brawl are QLD, NSW (ACT), VIC and WA.

Its been a long time coming for a new recommended rule set to come out. And its on its way, I assure you.
Ive said this multiple times as well, but the thriller stage list has minimal differences to what the next proposed ruleset recommends.

Australia generally has a similar interpretation of what stages should be legal and illegal anyway, which is a good thing. Perth having its tangents, honestly, mean little to me nor incites a reason for things to change much from how things are now.
The only thing that is honestly cared for atm is starters.

Im not directly opposed to this but I of course I am posting my reservations.

 

[SummonerAU]

PROPOSAL :
To construct a uniform stage list that will be used as a guideline throughout Australia for tournaments.

A group of panelists will be selected to discuss what stages we feel the Australian smash scene deem viable and will announce a set list that will be used as a guideline for all future Australian tournaments. Panelists should have a through understanding of stage mechanics and should have experience and knowledge on how stages affect the counterpicking system for a variety of characters. Two panelists will be chosen (via a process of nomination) from each state and panelists will discuss and propose a recommended stage list for use in Australia. The panelists will then publish their recommendations for a national list and stages and their reasoning behind it. Notable arguments for and against should also be mentioned as to avoid future 'hurr durr'.

better/worse?

 

[EverAlert]

Magnitude 10 better.

 

[C~Dog]

This may seem like a stupid question, but what would the difference between the Brawl Backroom recommended stagelist and the Australian recommened stagelist be?

 

[Mic_128]

good one mic, nice contrabution of nothing (this is exactly what I was getting at in the perth thread)

why is that another dumb statement? because bsrk's proposal states that it must follow the unified stage list to count as a tourney

the sbr's ruleset states, multiple times I believe, that its a guideline that does not need to be followed in the slightest.

see the difference there?

Yes, which is exactly what I'm getting at. The SBR did NOT do the same as Bob's proposal because people would be pissed if their tournaments don't count because they did not conform 100% to the "official" ruleset.

I'm agreeing with you.

 

[luke_atyeo]

my bad, should have worded it better imo.

 

[Toby.]

Soz luke, but it was pretty obvious what he was trying to say

Maybe your brain is still trying to come to grips with the radically new sleeping hours.

 

[Bsrk_]

Thanks Summoner i will change it to your summary_

The general idea is to also avoid this conflict that people have over a tournament introducing stages that may cause arguments and/or heated discussion_ I don't know about the east coast but a few people in perth seem to try throwing these stages in and prove them viable, making others agitated or frustrated having to pay to play with said stages_

My key issue was with starters which has now been fixed and i felt there was no need to start reintroducing other stages as CPs_ Now this issue has arised then the question is whether AUS wants a uniform stage list or not for tournaments_

As Shaya stated_ The SBR ruleset is overdue so maybe this will push it along_ Personally i'm tired of this politician arguing and rabble which over complicates situations that are easily avoided or resolved_

 

[Vlade]

Does anyone disagree that Norfair should be banned?

 

[Muzga]

Mic here: I disagree.

 

[Vlade]

Ugh. You're making my life so difficult, I don't think it's gonna be possible for everyone to agree on a uniform stage list ^_^

 

[Shaya]

Norfair is lame Mic.

GOD ****IT YOU MUST BELIEVE ME.
If stage mechanics allowing MK (and some others) to run the clock for up to a minute and a half [with close to impunity] before lava walls may interrupt this arent red flags enough for you, please tell me what are

 

[swordsaint]

Minus the few opinions of people who, despite testing and lots of discussion would still like to see things for themselves, it seems everyone has a pretty agreeable idea of what should be legal, and what not. I agree with Shaya in that for now, starters are really the only thing worth worrying about. It's pretty clear that stage lists are TO's discretion, and it seems to me that most, if not all TO's have an informed understanding and similar opinions of what the starters and stage lists should look like. I don't really see the need for this thread, given the the SBR does all this. However, I see why you would want it.

Right now, the only REAL variation in opinion is stemming from Perth, and it's coming from people with rather twisted, and to be blunt, wrong perceptions of stages and the need for appropriate starters and counters. You guys are too busy trying to see things for yourselves, when all the information you need to keep these stages banned or legal is already there.

 

[I LAG]

ok i didn't read any of those posts but

why dont we make a uniform nation ban list because that is much easier and then we can let TOs choice CPs and starters from the non banned stages

 

[Nixernator]

ILag's idea is the only good one in this topic IMO.