Project M Social Thread

[Epic Kovumon]

I wonder how Snake is gonna play.

 

[Revven]

I totally support adding FFable specials to Mario/Luigi and I wouldn't mind Pikachu as well for his neutral B (assuming that it wouldn't be a big deal in the long run since it's technically a buff that may be unnecessary).

But anyway, AWESUM NEWS SHANUS <3

 

[ValTroX]

I'm in with whatever you wanna do to buff Mario xD, I got used to their specials without fastfall, but adding them a little extra doesn't bother me

 

[GP&B]

FF Fireballs would be awesome. SHF anyone?

 

[jalued]

is the rolling up edgeguarding (from grabbing onto the edge) going to be applied to project M? i prefere it over the current brawl system personally and i feel it should be in

 

[Sneak8288]

even tho u can ff the moves not all of them will be lagless will they?

 

[shanus]

even tho u can ff the moves not all of them will be lagless will they?

Nope, this just gives the ability to FF them.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

I loved the ISIA applied to Sonic's Neutral B (that was needed). Would it be possible to add a little ISIA to his Spin Dashes but keep their priority the same?

 

[Sagen du Smash]

If your changing the Side and Down B priority though, this won't be an issue however.

 

[Plum]

lol I cant believe it meta knight is actually on a equal level scale now. considering it doesnt look like he can gimp due to the way how his jumps are now. well atleast from the streams im watching.

He's still VERY good at gimping, he just can't chase you half way around the world and back to do it. I forget who, but they related MK's jumps to a worse version of Peach's float and that's probably the best way to put it. He gets huge horizontal control/distance from it but his vertical momentum is bad. You get height off like the first two jumps, then they just keep you in place/moving you side to side.
I do think it would be interesting to see MK have an increased initial full hop but retain his poor multi-jumps so he could get a little more height when chasing you from the stage.

On the bright side for MK, he's in a world where moveset wise he is still a freakishly powerful gimper (even if his physics don't like him as much) and everyone's recovery was made worse from gravity changes. If there were characters that MK could exploit because of their poor recoveries (spacies, Marth, Ness, Bowser, Ike, etc....) then he's in a reaaally good position against them now when it comes to gimping. Though onstage against these characters could be totally different when you have the spacies and Marth doing what they could in Melee... His Dair has that perfect gimping angle on it still and he can still chase you off stage with Dairs/Fairs and make it back just fine. Side B is so good as a recovery that it makes up for a lot of what he lost with his jumps.

 

[JCaesar]

is the rolling up edgeguarding (from grabbing onto the edge) going to be applied to project M? i prefere it over the current brawl system personally and i feel it should be in

Noooo. I'm very against this.

Rolling to safely occupy the ledge was stupidly easy and thoughtless. The sheer ease of edgeguarding someone when their recovery only just reached the ledge was one of the worst parts of Melee.

It's great how it is now. It requires timing and precision. The edgeguarder still has the advantage, they just actually have to try now.

 

[TeSik]

Looked for it in this thread already, found nothing.
Will this whole thing also apply to single player mode? Like HRC n stuff.

 

[5ive]

Noooo. I'm very against this.

Rolling to safely occupy the ledge was stupidly easy and thoughtless. The sheer ease of edgeguarding someone when their recovery only just reached the ledge was one of the worst parts of Melee.

It's great how it is now. It requires timing and precision. The edgeguarder still has the advantage, they just actually have to try now.

I simply can't stress how much of a turnoff this is to the project as a former Melee player. It just isn't "Melee" without things such as this.

 

[Rikana]

Looked for it in this thread already, found nothing.
Will this whole thing also apply to single player mode? Like HRC n stuff.

This is mainly focused on multiplayer. Its likely that problems will occur when played on single player.

 

[Akuma2120]

I just have a few general questions about this project

Is the camera going to be made like Melee's? I liked how in Melee the camera would get really close when the characters were really close and slide over when a character turns another way.

And I know this one might be impossible, but I just want to know if it's going to be attempted, making hookshots/grapples stick into the sides of walls like Melee.

Are low tier characters going to be made better, or rather, is the cast going to be balanced?

 

[Rikana]

^^^^

Cameras are on the work. The camera for some stages has already been implemented.

Grapples on walls seem impossible at the moment.

"Balance" is going to be made when open beta happens. Melee top tiers will stay as top tiers while the rest of the cast may have slight changes here and there so they can compete with everyone else. You might not see a bottom to mid tier character all of a sudden jump to high tier. But, it could happen. Weakness of the characters will remain.

 

[JCaesar]

I simply can't stress how much of a turnoff this is to the project as a former Melee player. It just isn't "Melee" without things such as this.

I'm a former Melee player too bro. Melee didn't get everything right. Just the vast majority.

If you wanna argue the point, be my guest. But there's more to it than "just cause it was in Melee."

 

[Gardevior]

Rolling on the edge-hog is a really stupid design flaw and I hate it....in theory. In practice, it's extremely easy to do and very reliable, which makes it appealing.

 

[5ive]

I'm a former Melee player too bro. Melee didn't get everything right. Just the vast majority.

If you wanna argue the point, be my guest. But there's more to it than "just cause it was in Melee."

That's the thing. It's like the Marth SHDF removal in Brawl+. It made Marth users think more than just camping SHDF over and over, and there was no reason to bring back SHDF . The only response we got was, "it just isn't Marth."

I don't know if this is valid here, but it just isn't Melee. It's a turn off to the people who want it to feel exactly like Melee. You saw the P:M thread in the Melee discussion. A vast majority of them want it to "be" Melee. IMO, I would still be fine with Brawl ledge occupancy, but for the sake of Melee community popularity, keep Melee things in, and add on to that.

 

[Akuma2120]

^^^^

Cameras are on the work. The camera for some stages has already been implemented.

Grapples on walls seem impossible at the moment.

"Balance" is going to be made when open beta happens. Melee top tiers will stay as top tiers while the rest of the cast may have slight changes here and there so they can compete with everyone else. You might not see a bottom to mid tier character all of a sudden jump to high tier. But, it could happen. Weakness of the characters will remain.

With my luck Link will still be crap, **** no real balancing, sorry but that disappointments me, everything else is great but I'll just have to wait and see how this turns out I guess

I'd rather have low tier characters be like Brawl+ instead of having them stuck as low tier

 

[kaizo13]

5ive where were you when i was arguing for no RAR, RLG, BAD, footstooling, and no blue laserz?! >>

i've been arguing to keep almost everything that would make this game feel more like Melee but people just seem to go with alot of Brawl appliances, which i truly don't understand.

as for that edgeguarding roll, last time i heard Shanus had no idea how to code that



EDIT: and Akuma, i can re-asure you that no character will be worse than their B+ counterpart because low tiers are keeping their good aspects from B+ along with their Melee greatness

 

[camelot]

Akuma, don't worry about it. Nobody is going to suck in P:M.

That includes Link. He's already gotten overall damage buffs, buffs to his killing power, a wavedash that goes about twice as far as Melee's, his awesome up-b semi-spike, recovery improvement in the form of bomb jumping (which, I might add, is more effective than in Melee), among other things. Link definitely isn't a pushover.

 

[Rikana]

With my luck Link will still be crap, **** no real balancing, sorry but that disappointments me, everything else is great but I'll just have to wait and see how this turns out I guess

I'd rather have low tier characters be like Brawl+ instead of having them stuck as low tier

Link has quite a bit going for him at the moment. With AGT (aerial glide toss), Link's recovery can cover the entire Final Desntination stage and more. The only thing bad about it is its still predictable.

I personally don't want this project to be too balanced. Making the gap less than what it was in Melee would be great but I wouldn't want it to go too far. The game is far more interesting that way.

If you're worried about Link, I don't think you should be.

 

[Sneak8288]

The whole roll edge guard thing is questionable... idk where to stand on that. Maybe there should be a poll during open beta.

 

[Shell]

There's no point in arguing about it until/unless we (mostly shanus) can figure out a way of actually coding it, which has proven very difficult if not impossible so far.

 

[shanus]

^^ agreed

Simply put, aside from PW and Dantarion, I am probably the person who has most studied fighter.pac and I can tell you through the coding means I know of, we likely will not be able to elegantly alter ledge occupancy.

 

[MacKellarTeam1]

In melee each player (as in player 1,2ect) had their own starting position when they... respawned? Will that be incorporated into P:M? I think that would be meleeish, but probably also time consuming.

 

[Plum]

I agree that it would be clearly more "Melee" but I firmly agree with JCaesar

Spoiler

**** YEAH

that the game would be better without it.

It requires more skill to edgegaurd an opponent now when it comes down to the ledge itself and I really like that. Your timing on the edgehog has to be strict and precise going up against several recovery moves that have long lasting hitboxes or hitboxes that hit both going up and down.

Yeah, it isn't quite Melee without it, but the game becomes that little tiny bit more difficult and involving.

 

[Sterowent]

well, the nice thing was that it felt ******.

as long as the ledgegrab range is minuscule , though, then cool. don't wanna see someone get a magnet grab in a situation where that roll would've worked fine.

 

[Dark Sonic]

The problem is that some multi hit up Bs will be completely unedgehoggable now (as in, litterally out lasting your invincibility).

Off the top of my head. Link, Toon Link, Peach, Bowser and DK will be LITERALLY impossible to edgehog.

And really, ledge occupancy was only bad on rolls. Normal getup and attack occupancy still required good timing, but at the very least it made it POSSIBLE to edgehog everyone with some combination of ledge grab invincibility+ledge getup invincibility. Without it, you're essentially giving characters wtih multihit or long lasting up Bs a sizable recovery buff.

My 2 cents

 

[JCaesar]

Yes, a few characters can no longer be edgehogged (though I've definitely edgehogged Link before ) but that's a price I would gladly pay to make the edge game that much more challenging and diverse.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that every character has some aerial that they can do during their ledgehop invincibility to intercept those recoveries. More challenging and more interesting than just "HAHA I HAVE THE LEDGE NOW I ROLL AND YOU DIE!"

 

[Dark Sonic]

You didn't read the last paragraph did you? <_<

 

[Akuma2120]

and Akuma, i can re-asure you that no character will be worse than their B+ counterpart because low tiers are keeping their good aspects from B+ along with their Melee greatness

Akuma, don't worry about it. Nobody is going to suck in P:M.

That includes Link. He's already gotten overall damage buffs, buffs to his killing power, a wavedash that goes about twice as far as Melee's, his awesome up-b semi-spike, recovery improvement in the form of bomb jumping (which, I might add, is more effective than in Melee), among other things. Link definitely isn't a pushover.

Link has quite a bit going for him at the moment. With AGT (aerial glide toss), Link's recovery can cover the entire Final Desntination stage and more. The only thing bad about it is its still predictable.

I personally don't want this project to be too balanced. Making the gap less than what it was in Melee would be great but I wouldn't want it to go too far. The game is far more interesting that way.

If you're worried about Link, I don't think you should be.

Oh... nevermind

This will be made of pure win then

 

[GP&B]

In melee each player (as in player 1,2ect) had their own starting position when they... respawned? Will that be incorporated into P:M? I think that would be meleeish, but probably also time consuming.

Actually, this is rather simple to do. The only reason Brawl does this is that all player spawn positions are set to one single point even though they all have individual bones. When the stages have been modified into a satisfactory degree, someone on the team could set the individual respawn points.

 

[Magus420]

Wasn't FD the only stage (among the neutrals at least) that had separate respawn points for each port...?

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

Cant wait for this to come out. Any idea on how much longer its gonna be until the public version is released? Sorry I know I should really stop watching the vids/streams but they are what are giving the Hype is all about.

Keep up the great work though shanus and the other devs who are part of making Brawl into a great game actually.

 

[crazycrackers]

Wasn't FD the only stage (among the neutrals at least) that had separate respawn points for each port...?

No, FD was not the only stage. I'm not sure if all stages had this (though I could go check) but here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdF3xEAeAl0&feature=related

 

[Magus420]

Uhh, they appear to both respawn in the center each time. Respawn points, not starting points. Obviously they don't start the match all ontop of each other =P

Edit: BF and FD are port specific. YS, DL, FoD, PS, KJ64, and Brinstar are not. Dunno about RC.

 

[Sora-kun]

when this is done, you people should try to reenact the wombo combo.

IF YOU CaN'T THEN I DEEM THIS PROJECT a FaILURE

(i'm jk obviously but it would be cool to see it recreated)

 

[shanus]

The problem is that some multi hit up Bs will be completely unedgehoggable now (as in, litterally out lasting your invincibility).

Off the top of my head. Link, Toon Link, Peach, Bowser and DK will be LITERALLY impossible to edgehog.

And really, ledge occupancy was only bad on rolls. Normal getup and attack occupancy still required good timing, but at the very least it made it POSSIBLE to edgehog everyone with some combination of ledge grab invincibility+ledge getup invincibility. Without it, you're essentially giving characters wtih multihit or long lasting up Bs a sizable recovery buff.

My 2 cents

^^ agreed

Simply put, aside from PW and Dantarion, I am probably the person who has most studied fighter.pac and I can tell you through the coding means I know of, we likely will not be able to elegantly alter ledge occupancy.

I personally would like a middle ground of increased occupancy duration, but not quite the same duration as melee. However, I just don't know how to do it!