Project M Social Thread

[JCaesar]

You didn't read the last paragraph did you? <_<

I read it, then promptly forgot it

But yeah, I get you.

Cant wait for this to come out. Any idea on how much longer its gonna be until the public version is released? Sorry I know I should really stop watching the vids/streams but they are what are giving the Hype is all about. .

Every time you ask, we push it back a week.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Every time you ask, we push it back a week.

So, it'll go public about the time Duke Nukem Forever and Starcraft Ghost release, eh?




On a completely different note, Mario still has FLUDD, correct? Are there any plans to incorporate the Tornado, or has it been discussed and shot down already?

 

[JCaesar]

Just a heads up, we will likely be doing a livestream tonight (Thunderhorse, Bandit, and I, maybe 1 or 2 others). Hold onto your balls, Falco's bringing sexy back

 

[Plum]

The new Falco is so hot.
HypeFalco

 

[Sneak8288]

when this is done, you people should try to reenact the wombo combo.

IF YOU CaN'T THEN I DEEM THIS PROJECT a FaILURE

(i'm jk obviously but it would be cool to see it recreated)

I will do my best to get that on the trailer from what i seen it should be doable. You can shine upsmash while running on missed techs so it shouldnt be a problem recreating wombo combo at all imo... My streams should be up sometime next week. My friend just got his recording set up. We're just waiting until i get back to NJ. Falco Hype

 

[Revven]

Yayyyyyy Sneak <3

 

[TLMSheikant]

Just a heads up, we will likely be doing a livestream tonight (Thunderhorse, Bandit, and I, maybe 1 or 2 others). Hold onto your balls, Falco's bringing sexy back

This time, there better be some TL, peach and sheik or Ill want my money back, even if its free. Looking forward to it, around what time is the stream?

 

[Handorin]

Toon Link is mad fun in P:M. His Dair needs more lag though, it has next to nothing when you Lcancel it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

A lot of aerials need more lag in general, but we'll get to that eventually.

While we're talking about Toon Link. Why is it that his dair goes through opponents when you fast fall it? I personally think it should ALWAYS bounce off of opponents on hit.

 

[Bandit]

This time, there better be some TL, peach and sheik or Ill want my money back, even if its free. Looking forward to it, around what time is the stream?

There will definitely be Peach and Sheik. TL is more of an enigma....

Of course, there will be Zelda

 

[Shell]

Something about the gravity messed with his Dair bounce, causing it to glitch and float in place. We tried rigging in a haxed up bounce but the game didn't like that either... so I just removed it all. In some ways when you consider how easy it is to get the spike without dying compared to the stall-then-fall of brawl and how much larger the spike box is compared to melee, losing the bounce isn't such a terrible loss, in my opinion.

Plus, with his double jump and Up-B, jumping off the stage to Dair is still quite feasible.

 

[Sneak8288]

OMG picture jash playing that hybrid... best TL, best YL, but now he gets a mixture. Thats scary

 

[Krautrock]

I personally don't want this project to be too balanced. Making the gap less than what it was in Melee would be great but I wouldn't want it to go too far. The game is far more interesting that way.

I don't understand this sentiment at all. In what way is balance less interesting? Seeing a broader mix of characters is only a good thing. It would be lame if the melee tiers were replicated, even if the difference between tiers was less. The goal should always be total balance to the point where there are no tiers. This is obviously an impossible ideal, but we have the opportunity to try, so might as well get as close as possible. If some melee fox player gets annoyed with P:M because they now have to learn a tough match up with pikachu or kirby or some other character that used to be a pushover... well then they can always go and play melee.

But in any case, we're not at that point yet and I trust the designers anyway. I feel like I've rarely disagreed with anything shanus/shell have said in this thread. So no worries.

 

[Handorin]

Fox vs Pikachu wasn't horrible anyways. >_>

 

[Krautrock]

Doesn't change my point.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Something about the gravity messed with his Dair bounce, causing it to glitch and float in place. We tried rigging in a haxed up bounce but the game didn't like that either... so I just removed it all. In some ways when you consider how easy it is to get the spike without dying compared to the stall-then-fall of brawl and how much larger the spike box is compared to melee, losing the bounce isn't such a terrible loss, in my opinion.

What exactly does the spike have to do with anything? I'm talking about bouncing in general, not just edgeguarding.

stuff like....this entire video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djvHqpoXPkU


I admit it's not that important, but it IS one of the cooler things about Young Link imo. Using the bounce allowed you to get convenient auto cancels to follow up after your dair....in addition to letting you go further out to edgeguard with it if you really wanted to (not that you'd be spiking in this situation).

 

[shanus]

He did say it right then, the gravity messed up the bounce.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Yeah I get it. I'm just venting I guess.

 

[shanus]

There might be a hidden attribute in a float somewhere in their pac for the velocity of the bounce which we might be able to increase, but finding that is a needle in a haystack

 

[GP&B]

While we're talking about Toon Link. Why is it that his dair goes through opponents when you fast fall it? I personally think it should ALWAYS bounce off of opponents on hit.

Isn't that just like Link's in Brawl when fast-falled (which is incredibly annoying)? I know SHeLL already stated the reason, but it seems just like what happens with Link's too.

On a completely different note, Mario still has FLUDD, correct? Are there any plans to incorporate the Tornado, or has it been discussed and shot down already?

It is kept in for both recovery and gimping reasons. There isn't much purpose in bringing Tornado back.

 

[Shell]

We could probably code something causing him to be able to AC the dair on hit... (set AC bit if OB function registers) shouldn't be too hard if it works.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

Actually quick question about toonlink in this version of the game since hes supposed to be a hybrid between TL and YL is he gonna have FireArrows like how he had melee? just wondering because those where awesome. Or could you guys really throw a loop in here and give him different types of arrows depending on Taunt maybe idk i think it would be cool and could make him even harder to read. Just an idea.

 

[Shell]

Having different versions of articles for any character probably isn't possible with the codes we have right now. Right now they're fire arrows with a good arc to them.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

ahhh that cool then

 

[Rikana]

I don't understand this sentiment at all. In what way is balance less interesting?

What is there not to understand? I'm just saying from a spectator's point of view. You don't get as much wow-factor when you watch Fox vs. Fox. Of course the combos or the players playing as them would please the crowd but when someone uses a bottom tier like Mewtwo, it just becomes that much more interesting.

For example, Axe's Pikachu vs. Mango's Falco, Taj's Mewtwo vs. SilentSpectre's Captain Falcon, and Bum's DK vs. PC Chris's Falco.

Besides, I think it'd be stupid to repeat the same mistake - letting it stay beta for so long just to balance out the whole cast. A limited amount of open beta changes should be kept in mind so the metagame can start developing.

Basically, as hard it as it is to make everyone fall under one tier, but even if it is possible, I don't want that to happen. Having 3 or 4 tier groups is already interesting enough for me.

 

[CountKaiser]

You don't want this too balanced so that it will look more interesting?

How exactly will balancing the characters make the matches any less interesting to watch? This sentiment of bottom tier characters upsetting top tier characters? That feeling should not be the main reason to limit balance of characters. People shouldn't want to see a characters because of their tier, it should be because that characters is interesting to watch.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Is the stream up?

 

[Sora-kun]

You don't want this too balanced so that it will look more interesting?

How exactly will balancing the characters make the matches any less interesting to watch? This sentiment of bottom tier characters upsetting top tier characters? That feeling should not be the main reason to limit balance of characters. People shouldn't want to see a characters because of their tier, it should be because that characters is interesting to watch.

Well they arn't making it so fox is unbeatable, they're buffing the lower tiers. They're making it MORE balanced than Melee, however i see their point in not wanting perfect balance. If Link were god tier in brawl, he probably wouldn't be as fun to play. Where's the fun in playing a game where every character is on even ground? Fighting a top tier character is more intense than fighting a character who's on the same level as you. It's more challenging. Straight roads are boring, we need a little chaos(non-perfect balance) to keep matches more interesting. Do you think Taj's Mewtwo would be OMGWTF status if mewtwo was top tier? Probably not. Balance is necessary to a certain degree, however perfect balance isn't as fun on the competative level imo.

EDIT: another note; top tiers also give us a reason to practice and strive to be better. So we stand a chance against them. When you beat a very good fox with a lower tier then you can feel like you accomplished something as opposed to winning a 50-50 matchup where you simply won. Idk i just think it's better to win with the disadvantage.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Is the stream up?

No the stream is not up. JCz and Bandit are en route. Said they'd be here by 7:30-8 at the earliest, but given VA traffic, I'd wager they'd get here somewhere closer to 8:30 if they haul ***.

Don't worry, we'll post the link here when it's up.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Ok, thanx . Hyped.

 

[Sora-kun]

I hope i get to see Link this time D: I missed when they showed him(if they ever did)

 

[GP&B]

All I see in the anti-balance argument is low tier sentiment and a "sense of accomplishment".

And yet, I think it would be largely preferred to have a far more expansive metagame including all characters where the results aren't always the same.

 

[Shadic]

I hope i get to see Link this time D: I missed when they showed him(if they ever did)

He's rarely played... But he's fun, trust me.

 

[Dark Sonic]

post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqRSH_kJ4PY&feature=related

really? Even matchups are possibly THE MOST interesting to watch. Because each character can **** the other.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I played Marth like once in Project M beta. Seems like he still ***** fast fallers. Lol.

 

[Krautrock]

I agree with Dark Sonic.

It's also worth noting that balanced doesn't mean every match up is 50/50 - just that no character has an inherent advantage on the cast as a whole.

Additionally, in a balanced game success with any one character would actually be made much more challenging (and therefore - rewarding), as it would entail knowledge of many more possible match ups. In an environment where there were 39 (?) viable characters, you'd really have to be prepared in order to win.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Aww man, the stream took too long. I gtg next time.

 

[Sora-kun]

I agree with Dark Sonic.

It's also worth noting that balanced doesn't mean every match up is 50/50 - just that no character has an inherent advantage on the cast as a whole.

Additionally, in a balanced game success with any one character would actually be made much more challenging (and therefore - rewarding), as it would entail knowledge of many more possible match ups. In an environment where there were 39 (?) viable characters, you'd really have to be prepared in order to win.

Well i pretty much always end up maining low-tiers so i guess i see it from a different perspective. I realize that perfect balance doesn't mean 50-50 across the board and i was just making an example. I believe they will make every character viable so there's no worries. However, fox being at the top gives us something to strive forward to is all i'm saying.It feels less rewarding winning a fair fight than winning at a disadvantage.

also, i'm not for "anti-balance" i'm just saying there should be characters that are more challenging to fight. I don't think there should be a character that ***** EVERYONE else with no exceptions like MK(inb4diddyisevenwithhimyoumoron) or something. However, I'm not designing this project so i'm not in charge there.

 

[Shell]

Look, if you want to challenge yourself just sandbag. Main "Falcon Punch" or wear an eye patch or something.

I don't understand how that's an argument for gimping some characters' potential.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I agree strongly with Rikana and Sora-kun. Having everyone so balanced that every match-up is 50-50 is the same reason why Brawl+ got boring and why BBrawl is always forgotten.

But I won't get into that, just so I can save myself.