Project M Social Thread

[shanus]

still no word on DDD? *sigh* why dont we just change this to the PT thread >_>....

since no other character discussion is allowed atm I have some thing for every pokemon. How about critical hits? have at least 1 B move randomly crit. Or add effects like Burn, freeze, confusion...etc

Its fine to discuss anything :-O

Shoot your thoughts on D3 again, its very hard to keep up with every post.

 

[Roxas215]

No one comments on DDD cause he is such a boring *** char.

INB4FLAMES.

Anyway im very excited to see how yall meleefied zss. Any word on her status?

 

[jalued]

Its fine to discuss anything :-O

Shoot your thoughts on D3 again, its very hard to keep up with every post.

just wondering what his playstyle is starting to center around

 

[Archangel]

Its fine to discuss anything :-O

Shoot your thoughts on D3 again, its very hard to keep up with every post.

Well to me DDD and Olimar are the only 2 I can't fit into melee. DDD being more difficult of the 2. He's either gonna be a heavy 2nd rate Bowser or a 1st rate ***. I cant fit minions in a melee game. unless they are made like Mr.Saturn and can be picked up. His great recovery will be terrible do to heavier gravity and the fact that he doesnt have a sweetspot upB like marths for example. I know he can cancel and grab but with his new weight I see him missing the edge or being hit for going up to high. I see recovery as a new major problem for D3. Still he does have the hammer charge run...thing. If that was made much easier and his grab range mathed his attack range He may actually be good. For the most part I dont think he has the moves to fit melee's exciting gameplay. I was hoping for some info on how he plays now that he works.

 

[shanus]

His upB is immune to the effects of gravity.... lol

 

[ETWIST51294]

Dedede would just be Ganon with better moves. Bair like Jiggs, amazing grab game, probably relies on spacing, maybe his uthrow-->nair CG still works on FF(I seen vex do it to Vanz), CRAZY range, great gimping, I having trouble seeing if he'll be bad or good.

Why Olimar? Because he's different? He's a ****ing combo machine.

 

[Rhubarbo]

still no word on DDD? *sigh* why dont we just change this to the PT thread >_>....

since no other character discussion is allowed atm I have some thing for every pokemon. How about critical hits? have at least 1 B move randomly crit. Or add effects like Burn, freeze, confusion...etc

Cool Pokemon ideas, they just don't fir the motif of this project. Maybe those ideas would best be implemented in Brawl- or another Brawl hack?

 

[Rikana]

@Spam_arrows. I see what you're saying (except the DDD's upB part as his upB ignores gravity). This is based off Brawl after all and Brawl was a completely different game than what Melee was. The staff will do their best to have that Melee feel to it. I can't take my mind off how Olimar doesn't seem like a Melee character at all as well with all those pikmins but you gotta live with it. Just think of them as unique characters to the Melee cast. DDD seems fine. He fits the Melee crew except his sideB minion throws (which I agree with). Just another example of a unique character to the Melee cast.

There's probably other things that annoy me as well from Brawl if it were to make a transition to Melee. The aerials which cause you to stop in air such as Lucario's dAir, Rob's bAir and dAir, Ivysaur's dAir. Its understandable for Ivysaur to get it since it helps with his recovery game. Tethers as upB's are another thing that doesn't seem to fit Melee as well.

Anyways. I'll stop my list here as you get what I mean. It'll be more Melee than it is Brawl at least, which isn't bad at all.

 

[Dai Tian]

DDD was already given changes to better accommodate him in a faster paced environment in B+. It's not unreasonable that he'll be given similar changes again to fit him into a faster paced Melee environment. Same goes with the tethers and all the moves that halt your momentum in midair. They may not be things that we saw in Melee but they'll keep the new characters unique and can add new dimensions to the existing Melee system.

It may take time but I see no reason to believe any character will break the feel of Project M. Brawl+ was an entirely new game and everyone was (eventually) made to be able to keep up with everyone else.. Same thing'll happen here.

 

[Archangel]

OK! So I actually looked up some Brawl+ footage because I haven't seen any of it since my game stopped working a year ago. I must say it's completely different. then It was when I played. I saw DDD and he actually isn't crap at all. I saw some of Giza and Vanz and DDD looked pretty good. Still Brawl+ isn't melee. However it's probably the first time I remember get up out of my seat and going OOOOHHHHH!!! for anything that wasn't melee. As long as he plays similar he'll be fine. his minion come out pretty quick. they stun but don't knock back from what I saw which makes it not gay. his UpB looked good. Only thing I'd suggest is maybe Making it so he doesn't dead fall when he cancels it. Or maybe make it so you can jump out of it/other options after you cancel it.

Basically if what I saw is the starting point for DDD I'm not to worried anymore at all.

I am wondering if Pit's Dair will be made into a spike or meteor.

 

[Rikana]

Somewhat off topic: " Brawl is on the MLG 2010 Pro Circuit". lolol.

 

[Sterowent]

what about melee? they've been having a great comeback.

 

[Rikana]

MLG never goes with games that are old regardless of how good it is. No question about it. Brawl will be representing the smash community in MLG.. Just hope the matches will be interesting enough to watch.

 

[Sterowent]

c'mon, man, you know most of them won't be. the best smashers can do in brawl is diddy banana fun, snake trap 'combos', and the 6-8 minute marks where everyone is barely living at XXX%. it's going to be lame.

 

[Rikana]

Convince MLG then. As much as I'd like Melee to be on the list, its not going to happen.

Which is why I'm waiting for this project to be open beta. :D

 

[Deleted member]

c'mon, man, you know most of them won't be. the best smashers can do in brawl is diddy banana fun, snake trap 'combos', and the 6-8 minute marks where everyone is barely living at XXX%. it's going to be lame.

This.

Lol. If you're reading this thread, then you probably don't enjoy Brawl very much.

 

[Dai Tian]

Hah, we've got enough discussion on that going on in separate threads now, don't bring that in here. Brawl was chosen cause it's newer and that's that. It may not be the game we enjoy but for now leave it to them to represent Smash at MLG. In the meantime, do your part and keep Melee alive.

But yeah, B+ now is different compared to a year ago. Since B+ is the base that P:M is building off of, if anyone here is unsure of how well so and so could fit into the game then look up some B+ vids. No doubt in my mind, every character will be looked into as time goes on for Project M.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I think the melee community will for the most part embrace the more unique aspects of brawl as long as the general engine feels like melee. Things like "stall then fall" dairs, reversable specials, weird cancels (Sonic's ASC shield cancel for instance), glide tossing, ect is something I for one would LOVE to see in a melee environment.

Only things I can see them finding even remotely annoying are moves that trip (pretty much anything other than Diddy's bananas as they have a 100% trip rate). That and some people might not initially like super armor, but they'll get used to it (we've dealt with invincible up B's afterall)

 

[Archangel]

I think in this next trailer they should re-introduction. Basically show 5-10 seconds of each working character doing something new or just doing something period. I mean. I like Pillars as much as the next person but I'd like to see everyone highlighted in that way in the next trailer.

 

[GPDP]

I think in this next trailer they should re-introduction. Basically show 5-10 seconds of each working character doing something new or just doing something period. I mean. I like Pillars as much as the next person but I'd like to see everyone highlighted in that way in the next trailer.

Indeed. If the Balanced Brawl trailer did it, ours sure as hell can as well.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

Indeed. If the Balanced Brawl trailer did it, ours sure as hell can as well.

This.

Also, BBrawl trailer just looked like brawl to many, so, THIS! trailer will not be campared to the BBrawl one ^^

 

[red stone]

this looks amazing. can't wait. i fully support this effort

 

[Blank Mauser]

Rock smash was never that great a move, and it'll be worse in a game where you can wavedash in and out of its range to punish it. Super armor doesn't stop grabs, and a spammable move doesn't equate to a good move.

I'm still concerned about Brawl airdodges. Its just plain a dumb mechanic and keeping it unchanged is far from what the Melee airgame was.

IASA frames and other "neat cancels" are nice. The fact you guys consider new ATs at all is nice. I was disappointed Brawl+ molded characters rather linearly and with less focus adjusting to a new game, which I think would probably be more important in something like Project M.

I don't know how far you guys want to take this character specific discussion, but its intriguing to say the least. I did not like seeing everyone clamor over how x character should play in Brawl+, so I suppose it'll be interesting to see how it turns out with this.

Hopefully you guys realize the crowd you're attracting for this and try not to please the other camp.

 

[Dan_X]

The thing is, with Brawl+, some people grew tired of the meriad of change. However, there was simply no other way of doing things. Much of Brawl+'s progression was directly connected to what we had available to us, what had been discovered, and what was possible at the time. We were so limited, for so long. Even the line limit was a problem for a good while. Heck, we thought we were near the end of Brawl+, because of the impending line limit, and managed to squeeze in very few character changes. One, a nerf to MK's whorenado, and second, "thick skin" for Bowser. Those two changes came after a ton of time spent making the mechanic changing codes that defined Brawl+. There was also a considerable amount of time taken to convert already made codes into equiviliant ASM versions that took up less lines. This alone prolonged things. Eventually, as time progressed, and the line limit was forever removed, we saw a slew of character balances enacted. Then, after many of these changes, after so much work, PSA came out, and opened up a new world of possibilities. Many tweaks, both big and small took place in Brawl+ thanks to PSA, however, some people grew tired of the long-winded design process. Veril, now in charge of Brawl+, in attempts of stabilizing things once and for all, is no longer making many changes, if any, to the game. The people behind Brawl+ always did the best that they could with what they had at the time.

Imagine how different Brawl+'s progression would have been had there already been mechanic codes in line; if we immediately had access to no line limit, PSA, Brawlbox, etc? For one, people would not have been so quick to whine about constant changes, and demand that a release go unchanged, as the whole process would have been far more steady.

This is why P:M has so much going for it, many of the stops have already been removed. In addition, people have even less reason to complain about changing a character too much because this project has the creative authority to do that. It's a project basing itself on past knowledge, everything that went into making Brawl+ has lead to this. I mean, we aleady have many of the major mechanics out of the way for P:M, and it's only been in the works for a mere fraction of the time that Brawl+ was. Heck, Brawl+ by this time was lucky if it had hitstun, or shieldstun, or ALR, heck, many of said codes took months and months to formulate, most of which was thouht to be impossible until it was actualized.

In the end, the future of P:M is more than promising!

 

[Archangel]

Indeed. If the Balanced Brawl trailer did it, ours sure as hell can as well.

This.

Also, BBrawl trailer just looked like brawl to many, so, THIS! trailer will not be campared to the BBrawl one ^^

YAY ppl agreeing with me.

Also I must say Orca is correct. I said pages back that some of my ideas were laughed out of original Brawl+/HAD threads. However with what the project B+ Had to work with it wasn't possible to do somethings I imagined and i'm sure anyone who played melee did. During my downtime I would wonder about what Brawl was going to be like. I'd imagine the new characters with techskill out of this world and stuff...of course I was disappointed otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. Brawl+ Dispite being alot better now still isn't melee so I can see why ppl who prefer that feel gave up on it even now. However This project is perhaps the next level. It's like the potential return of Jesus basically. For the most part Brawl+ has accomplished its goal by far. Thats make a far better version of brawl then the original. It may be to early to start thinking along these lines but I can't help but think that with knowledge of the greatness that was melee mixed with the new creative ideas of the current Plus who knows. We may in the end not just recreate melee entirely. but make something even Better. I put it in bold because it's a bold statement lol. I know i'm not the only 1 thinking/hoping for it either. Nobody wants to come out and say it but I think inside those backing this project believe it could be "The One" To use matrix terms. With the division between communities and such Vbrawl, Brawl+, Melee. Finally we could have a game that combines all 3 and then moves into a new direction. So good that Nintendo hire's shanus and the others to release it in mass production!!!!!!!!!!!

maybe thats a bit overboard. Still I have tremendous hopes for this and I suspect i'm not alone........I think...

 

[JCaesar]

I'm still concerned about Brawl airdodges. Its just plain a dumb mechanic and keeping it unchanged is far from what the Melee airgame was.

I agree with this. The main reason why combos in Brawl+ are so black and white is because the BAD is basically a "Get out of combo free" card, whereas the MAD (combined with NADT) made the combo/string game much more interesting and varied and mindgamey in Melee.

That's why I argued for NADT in B+, in the hopes that it would make the combo/string game deeper, but sadly we just ended up with +5 frames to ADT. Plum also had a good idea for it which I don't remember at the moment, but I think it was dismissed for being too difficult to code or something.


Forgive me if this has already been discussed and decided on. I only just started following this thread and I don't feel like reading the 3000 posts I missed.

 

[shanus]

This is something I actually want to probe on more.

Do people want the BAD ability removed? I believe it might help in addressing a current minor issue of the HAD not starting movement till frame 2.



In fact, I'll make a code with BAD removed to test out!

 

[Plum]

I agree with this. The main reason why combos in Brawl+ are so black and white is because the BAD is basically a "Get out of combo free" card, whereas the MAD (combined with NADT) made the combo/string game much more interesting and varied and mindgamey in Melee.

That's why I argued for NADT in B+, in the hopes that it would make the combo/string game deeper, but sadly we just ended up with +5 frames to ADT. Plum also had a good idea for it which I don't remember at the moment, but I think it was dismissed for being too difficult to code or something.


Forgive me if this has already been discussed and decided on. I only just started following this thread and I don't feel like reading the 3000 posts I missed.

My idea was to allow airdodge durring tumble, but if airdodge was hit durring hitstun you would be punished for doing it too early by an extra "X" frames of not being able to airdodge.
Achieved the same idea as NADT by forcing a timed airdodge rather than a mashed airdodge, but still would be better for those who complained by NADT. I doubt that could be possible though :\

 

[shanus]

My idea was to allow airdodge durring tumble, but if airdodge was hit durring hitstun you would be punished for doing it too early by an extra "X" frames of not being able to airdodge.
Achieved the same idea as NADT by forcing a timed airdodge rather than a mashed airdodge, but still would be better for those who complained by NADT. I doubt that could be possible though :\

I know how to do it now, but its not really needed anymore.

 

[Alphatron]

I was a fanboy of that idea at the time it was suggested. I too, heavily dislike the BAD for the "get out of combo free" pass it gave you all the time. Probably the worst thing about it is that it brings bad habits onto a lot of players. Whenever in the air, just airdodge! Approaching your opponent in the air? Airdodge? Just been hit off the side and your opponent is chasing you? Airdodge!

Plum's idea>NADT and normal BAD.

 

[Kix]

Do people want the BAD ability removed? I believe it might help in addressing a current minor issue of the HAD not starting movement till frame 2.

I think I probably would.

 

[shanus]

I'll go ahead and test out the removal of it, hopefully this new code will make everyone happy.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Brawl Air Dodge in the Melee environment, in theory at least, would be a little too powerful. FF AD in Brawl+ and vBrawl is already a viable way to avoid punishment in the air, so with project M's gravity...

Though with BAD removed, certain edgeguarding moves might become a bit ridiculous. I suppose it would be something to look into.

 

[shanus]

Brawl Air Dodge in the Melee environment, in theory at least, would be a little too powerful. FF AD in Brawl+ and vBrawl is already a viable way to avoid punishment in the air, so with project M's gravity...

Though with BAD removed, certain edgeguarding moves might become a bit ridiculous. I suppose it would be something to look into.

At higher gravity, BADing while over the edge was already dangerous, lol

 

[Rikana]

I probably wouldn't even BAD if I get the chance to play since my mindset will be in Melee. Regardless, I don't mind being taken out. I do agree with it being a free escape for many combo strings.

I suggest having a code developed, but not actually implement it yet. Let the beta testers decide whether or not it should be taken out as it could help out those that are combo bait from the beginning. We wouldn't know if it's going to be abused as bad as everyone makes of it. Its beta for a reason.

 

[Dan_X]

Do people want the BAD ability removed? I believe it might help in addressing a current minor issue of the HAD not starting movement till frame 2.

In fact, I'll make a code with BAD removed to test out!

BAD removed? Though I wouldn't be totally against this, the idea of P:M having a Hybrid system is so awesome to me. It's so cool, the best of both worlds. Though, as mentioned, I'll likely only be using the MAD anyway, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[Archangel]

I probably wouldn't even BAD if I get the chance to play since my mindset will be in Melee. Regardless, I don't mind being taken out. I do agree with it being a free escape for many combo strings.

I suggest having a code developed, but not actually implement it yet. Let the beta testers decide whether or not it should be taken out as it could help out those that are combo bait from the beginning. We wouldn't know if it's going to be abused as bad as everyone makes of it. Its beta for a reason.

Best answer on this subject.

 

[Dan_X]

Best answer on this subject.

nah ah. Mine is.

@Shanus, I'm all for anything that will fix the 2 frame lag issue. :D

 

[shanus]

We'll see when someone is awake to test the code O_o

 

[Dan_X]

We'll see when someone is awake to test the code O_o

I'm awake