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Project M Social Thread

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kupo15

kupo15

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shanus said:
Well as I mentioned, its a point we are definitely entertaining for the "fall actions." This would let characters still reverse grab (if they can during their upB's already, not all can) during the actoins for the upB, but not speedhugging, etc. This would let Ike still do fancy tricks with upB, etc.
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I understand, but technically would Ike still be able to reverse grab during his up b so long as he is around sweet spot range because he flips? Like, doesn't everyone have 3 animations during their up b: Start up, middle and falling. So ike would be

Start up: Throws sword up and catches it
Middle: Does the flip thing
Falling: The constant position where he is falling down with his sword

If you disable reverse grabbing from part 3 (part 1 is already disabled then he should still be able to grab the ledge with the first spike box out, I would think? Personally, I think that if Ike up b'd backwards at the top of the stage and still grabbed the ledge, that would be ridiculous.

Question, could kirby grab the ledge backwards in melee?

I also don't understand why all characters should get reverse grabbing during their up b's. If Marth or sheik could grab the ledge backwards in melee then...o_O
 
Team Giza

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I am mainly worried about his tornado getting better due to higher gravity.

edit: Which is probably justified though. :p And an easy fix.
 
Shell

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Kupo, I believe we have frame-by-frame control of exactly what you can grab. No need to be so broad as to include whole segments of moves -- if you wanted you could even boot up BBox and say he should grab both ways from frame X to frame Y.

The only character that didn't follow your rule of being able to grab the ledge backwards = good recovery were Mario, Doc, and Roy.... and they had the worst recoveries in the game.

Fortunately, Doc and Roy are dead now (:p), but I don't think it'd be too much to ask that Mario could reverse grab at the very peak. I can modify animations as necessary if you insist that the animation should dictate the grab capabilities.
 
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Dan_X

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@Kupo, though I'm back and forth on the matter, I do agree that The direction you're facing should be important. I absolutely do not want you to be able to run off the stage to quick grab the ledge. I'm fine with Shanus's mention of no sweet spotting backwards whilst falling, but even if that didn't make it in I'm fine. :D

I'm so pyshced to have to WD off the stage to quick grab!
 
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Sneak8288

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I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet or not but I'm wondering how the "out of shield" game is gonna be. It is gonna be like vbrawl where its easy mode and you can do anything out of shield or are you gonna put lag on it with you only being able to jump out of shield, which would make wave dashing more of a requirement and it would also give reason to shine out of shield and would make upsmashing out of shield difficult. I think it would add more skill to the game if you actually had to think twice about putting your shield up and it would eliminate the whole approaching and throwing your shield up that everyone does. It just seems too safe all the time
 
matt4300

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Sneak8288 said:
I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet or not but I'm wondering how the "out of shield" game is gonna be. It is gonna be like vbrawl where its easy mode and you can do anything out of shield or are you gonna put lag on it with you only being able to jump out of shield, which would make wave dashing more of a requirement and it would also give reason to shine out of shield and would make upsmashing out of shield difficult. I think it would add more skill to the game if you actually had to think twice about putting your shield up and it would eliminate the whole approaching and throwing your shield up that everyone does. It just seems too safe all the time
Click to expand...
You mean shield stun? You must not have played brawl+.
 
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Sneak8288

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matt4300 said:
You mean shield stun? You must not have played brawl+.
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I stopped playing brawl+ a long time ago because of too many un needed changes made based on complaints instead of people just getting good at the game. But no I wouldnt call it shield stun because even in melee you couldnt do anything but jump, grab, or roll or spot dodge etc out of shield if your shield was hit or not. Shield stun comes from the lag you get when someone hits you while in your shield right? But the way it was in melee if you wanted to move out of your shield you would have to jump or wavedash
 
matt4300

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Sneak8288 said:
I stopped playing brawl+ a long time ago because of too many un needed changes made based on complaints instead of people just getting good at the game. But no I wouldnt call it shield stun because even in melee you couldnt do anything but jump, grab, or roll or spot dodge etc out of shield if your shield was hit or not. Shield stun comes from the lag you get when someone hits you while in your shield right? But the way it was in melee if you wanted to move out of your shield you would have to jump or wavedash
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Ah...

You do know that this set is being built off of brawl+ right? So all of those unessesary changes will still be in for the most part.
 
Rhubarbo

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Sneak8288 said:
I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet or not but I'm wondering how the "out of shield" game is gonna be. It is gonna be like vbrawl where its easy mode and you can do anything out of shield or are you gonna put lag on it with you only being able to jump out of shield, which would make wave dashing more of a requirement and it would also give reason to shine out of shield and would make upsmashing out of shield difficult. I think it would add more skill to the game if you actually had to think twice about putting your shield up and it would eliminate the whole approaching and throwing your shield up that everyone does. It just seems too safe all the time
Click to expand...
Make it exactly as it was in Melee. The "M' in the title doesn't have some cryptic meaning. This hack is meant to be Melee with 39 characters and new stages.
 
Shell

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The higher tier, the more they will resemble Melee. Lower tiers will have their old physics and "feel" the same, but will have additional new strategies or generally more powerful versions of old tactics.

Melee with 39 characters this is not... quite.
 
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Sneak8288

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i just wanted to make sure cuz there were other changes and updates to the project that weren't in melee. I know what the purpose of the project is. And @ matt... i doubt the changes i was mentioning will effect the old melee characters much
 
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ItachiFire2

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Uhm is rolling off the ledge going to be a edgehog like in melee? I'm pretty sure i have seen this discussed before in this thread but i really didn't wana go through 180 pages.
 
Shell

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No idea where the game holds that information. Miracles happen, though.
 
a nub

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I'm assuming there'll be shield drop lag for anything that's not a grab, roll, spotdodge, up b, or jump/jc usmash. I can't remember the exact lag time, I think it's in m2k's statistics.
 
D

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Orca said:
Nice! Obviously the snap distance MUST be changed, but by how much, as you've put it, is the tricky part. What about a Melee snap range? I'm sure you guys have thought of this already, however, is such a range too tiny?

As for reversed grabbing... I tend ti like it. I hate the idea of dying just because I was facing the wrong way. It seems gimmicky to me. Imho, it's the one thing Brawl got right. I'm actually a bit confused about how direction is determined during some up+Bs. For example, I play Falco, if I recovered from beneath FD, rising diagonally to the right towards the right most ledge, which way would I be facing? Would I be facing to the right because that's the direction I sent my up+B? That's the part of taking out reverse grabbing that bothers me... I feel like you'd end up dying for stupid reasons, for get trying to edge guard. I think reducing the snap size to that of Melee's should be enough.
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Snap ranges in vBrawl and B+ were nice due to tilts sometimes not being able to reach you off the ledge to prevent tilt guarding (MK, Marth). That could be a nice mechanic in the game in the future.

And reverse grabs off up-b seem good for certain characters. Fox, Falco, C. Falcon, Ganon, Link were able to use it well. However, other chars like MK, Marth, Sheik, Peach don't really need that option. A case to case basis where balance would be decided for the reverse ledge grab would be nice for Mario, Luigi, Sonic, G+W, and more characters.

shanus said:
About 10-15 characters have had their ledgegrab range altered so far to perfectly match melee. We'll need to complete the rest and approximate the values to brawl characters as well. We haven't removed reverse grabbing yet, but I might do that "during fall only," but this point is still highly debated.
Click to expand...
Change certain up-b's to reverse grab and some not to. That mechanic would be balanced per character's recovery game Charizard, Wario, DDD, Lucario, and many more could use it(Ike reverse Aether spike plz ). Also, grabbing ledges backwards while in neutral fall could be implemented for some characters to make them more versatile while others have to grab ledges conventional Melee style. The ledge grab range could be changed for each character like Bowser and DK due to their up-b's not being flexible and too predictable as well as their enormous girth
 
GP&B

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I'm pretty sure they were going to do wall grapples, not tether recoveries at least for characters like Link and Samus, who far more benefit from the wall grapple.
Just read the OP, they're working on making tethers grabs walls and not just ledges.
 
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Don't remember if Brawl already has it but will knockback momentum be added to techs? And I don't know how to really describe this one, like when you're hit with a weak attack after hitting the ground and not teching and it causes you to not be in hitstun or tumble. Like using Falco's shine on someone and they go into the air without hitstun or tumble, I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about, lol. Is this gonna be in P:M?
 
GP&B

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Starscream said:
Don't remember if Brawl already has it but will knockback momentum be added to techs? And I don't know how to really describe this one, like when you're hit with a weak attack after hitting the ground and not teching and it causes you to not be in hitstun or tumble. Like using Falco's shine on someone and they go into the air without hitstun or tumble, I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about, lol. Is this gonna be in P:M?
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Eh, I can't really name what you're talking about, but I do believe I know what that is.

And there's something I actually wanted to asked the developers. Is dead weight going to be nerfed? In 2v2, it's extremely annoying to nail someone with a powerful move only for nearly 50% of that knockback to be lost just from bumping another guy. Dead weight effect is also way too sensitive in Brawl in that it takes only some slight knockback to be defined as dead weight.
 
Shell

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I have no idea where to begin looking for 'dead weight' in PSA but I guess we'll keep that in mind when we've got everything else done...?
 
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ETWIST51294 said:
I don't like the up b sweetspot idea. :3
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Why twist? It actually requires good spacing and skill. If they space poorly, above the ledge, and enter their fall they will NOT be able to grab the ledge backwards... Really, I don't see how this is a problem. The idea for this change is to make it less safe, or easy, for the edge-guarder to mindlessly jump off stage chasing his enemy... Right? Doesn't this change accomplish that? It makes it very risky for the edgeguarder--- unless he kills the enemy and manages to sweetspot his recovery backwards...

Again, I don't see how that really dumbs things down. The fact that this removes quick hogging is also quite awesome...
 
leafgreen386

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Sneak8288 said:
I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet or not but I'm wondering how the "out of shield" game is gonna be. It is gonna be like vbrawl where its easy mode and you can do anything out of shield or are you gonna put lag on it with you only being able to jump out of shield, which would make wave dashing more of a requirement and it would also give reason to shine out of shield and would make upsmashing out of shield difficult. I think it would add more skill to the game if you actually had to think twice about putting your shield up and it would eliminate the whole approaching and throwing your shield up that everyone does. It just seems too safe all the time
Click to expand...
The shield will have the same 15 frames of drop lag as it did in melee. The drop lag is 7 frames in brawl, which is why you can do just about anything out of it so easily. And of course we'll be aiming to mimic the shieldstun formula from melee. I'm pretty sure the current shieldstun is still at the brawl+ values.
 
Gardevior

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Olimar has a super-armor move (off-ledge recovery relevance?) and it doesn't matter how far tether would get him if you can roll off the ledges and not grab them.
 
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