Project M Social Thread

[Archangel]

I think CGs should be like they were in Melee.

What he said

 

[ETWIST51294]

I bet Sonic and Olimar can CG Spacies.

 

[cubaisdeath]

sonic with moonwalks should be hella fun. moonwalk tech chases ALLLLLL day

 

[shanus]

Light shielding definitely sounds hard. There's probably ways to work around Crouch Canceling though. Something will eventually come up.

What do you have in mind for Meteor Canceling though? I don't know how to code and such but I understand how it works. I remember you said that there aren't any codes within the game that implies a "spike". So, from my assumption, are you gonna make anything that sends you lower than the horizontal axis Meteor Cancelable? Well, maybe more specific. Something in range of the degree you're being launched off to. Dunno if I'm making any sense here lol.

Power Shielding with reflecting properties sounds simple.

@Meteor Canceling: It is controlled by a bit variable. I know where its all located, but it has a lot of unknowns in it so it's more of a guess and check process a bit.

@Light presses: Requires Almas' help, but the way its coded should not impact any form of alternative controllers (unless they do register light presses, which would be sweet). So all controller functionality should be preserved.

 

[Archangel]

I bet Sonic and Olimar can CG Spacies.

everybody could in melee. It kept them from dominating the game though.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Just so everyone knows, the Wii itself is capable of recognizing light shoulder presses. This is actually in quite a few other GC controller compatible games (Guilty Gear XXAC, Naruto Clash of Ninja Revolution series, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, and TvC just to list some off the top of my head).

I think the problem was that either BRAWL doesn't recognize these inputs, or at the very least they are not used for ANYTHING so it's hard to "change" them to do something else.

This is an interesting point that may not have been publicly discussed yet. What will become of CG's like Marios, Marths, Ganons, Fox, and Sheik?

A nice option would be to have the grabs CG for like 20% on certain characters in situational percentage ranges. After that, it would just set up for a combo with predicted DI and reaction. would be a nice change from some of the obnoxious CG's in Melee.

Marth's chaingrab should stay because it literally only worked on 2 characters (both of which got out after 30% or so with proper DI and shining/jumping out). His F-throw chaingrab is not a true chaingrab on any character at any percent if you DI away+down (you can easily buffer a roll or spotdodge, or even attack Marth if you've got a fast enough attack that will hit him through his grab range).

IMO, the only chaingrabs that should be adjusted are those that are true chaingrabs beyond 30% (okay, maybe 40%). Basically, things like Sheik's chaingrab on Yoshi (shudder), Ganon's chainthrow on Sheik (as much as I hate to make the matchup even harder for Ganon <_<), Peach's chainthrow on Falcon, ect. Though for Peach's chainthrow, I think it should just be a percentage range reduction instead of the 30% cuttoff (since he chainthrow doesn't start working until after 30% in the first place <_<). I'd have no problem with it working from 30-60/65%.


New chaingrabs on the melee characters might be a little harder to deal with though. Specifically things like Pit's d-throw, which has good base and little growth. It's essentially a Sheik d-throw that sends a little higher, which would be perfect for chaingrabbing spacies FOREVER <_<.

Sonic I wouldn't worry too much about, cause his grab range is terrible (like Pikachu lol) and his upthrow has considerable growth. He'll probably have a chaingrab for a couple of throws, but I doubt it'll do more than 35% or so.


I have a question about throws in general though. Would it be acceptable to speed up certain throw animations to make them harder to DI on reaction? That in itself can make a character have better throw "followups." Worked for Marth. All his throws are too fast to DI on reaction alone, (or even tech in some cases), which allowed for him to get followups on throws more often (because DIing them correctly was essentially a guess). Some brawl characters have throws that could easily emulate this if they were simply faster. For example, Charizard's b-throw and f-throw could be used as a DI mixup if they were both a little faster (okay, f-throw would have to be A LOT faster <_<).

Maybe that's just not the way we want to go with throws, but I think it's an interesting idea for adding small, skill based buffs to characters

 

[Rikana]

I have a question about throws in general though. Would it be acceptable to speed up certain throw animations to make them harder to DI on reaction? That in itself can make a character have better throw "followups." Worked for Marth. All his throws are too fast to DI on reaction alone, (or even tech in some cases), which allowed for him to get followups on throws more often (because DIing them correctly was essentially a guess). Some brawl characters have throws that could easily emulate this if they were simply faster. For example, Charizard's b-throw and f-throw could be used as a DI mixup if they were both a little faster (okay, f-throw would have to be A LOT faster <_<).

Maybe that's just not the way we want to go with throws, but I think it's an interesting idea for adding small, skill based buffs to characters

I would agree with this. Melee was very huge on grabs but having a slow throw animation kind of ruins it for some characters (Charizard would be very interesting if he had throw animations as fast as Marth). Speeding it up just makes the game have more of a melee'esque feel to it. It'd be fast paced leading to early deaths, unless you can DI right - what everyone wanted.

 

[shanus]

i do like that concept a lot. Can you make a detailed profile on "slow" throws for generally "needy" characters.

 

[ZoSo]

Keep up the good work guys this is looking great.

 

[Unlimited]

I wish G&W would keep his fishbowl in this somehow, it was such a fantastic move..

 

[Rikana]

I wish G&W would keep his fishbowl in this somehow, it was such a fantastic move..

You'll like his Melee nAir better.

 

[Octave]

I wish G&W would keep his fishbowl in this somehow, it was such a fantastic move..

You'll like his Melee nAir better.

While I definitely like the melee Nair better, I really really miss his parachute recovery. He's going to be **** tier again.

 

[shanus]

While I definitely like the melee Nair better, I really really miss his parachute recovery. He's going to be **** tier again.

Trust me, he's not. Right now he is insanely good.

 

[ZoSo]

edit: why is the account still logged in on my computer

 

[Unlimited]

You'll like his Melee nAir better.

I already like his melee nAir, but I wish the fishbowl was still in the game somehow.
I thought it was a amazing move.

Parachute recovery was stick too.

Is G&W 100% back to the melee moveset?
Does the uAir still make characters float and does the key auto fastfall?

There were so many things in brawl that they did right to G&W. I don't know if I'm the only one that feels this way but G&Ws brawl moveset became my favorite almost instantly.

 

[Octave]

Trust me, he's not. Right now he is insanely good.

Really? Did you increase the amount of horizontal movement or something?

 

[krazyzyko]

Is shiek and G&W going to have Brawl's mega fastfalled dair or are you going to changed it back to melee's?

Are you going to bring JC grabs back?

Is Peach's whorenado going to be buffed?

Are we going to keep the reverse shield grab?

Is the down+tilt going to slowly bring the character slightly forward while spamming it?(like with MK,Marth, Snake, Sonic, etc.)

Are we keeping swimming, wall stcking(diddy, lucario, shiek, squirrel...) and crawling?

Are you bringing CC back? or are you going to stick to the tripping if you DI down?

Also, sometimes I've noticed that when you get grabbed while recovering(b4 landing) and get thrown out, you have no mid-air jump, please fix this, on melee you gaind your 2nd jump back.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Really? Did you increase the amount of horizontal movement or something?

You gotta understand, G&W wasn't bad in Melee because of his recovery or his offensive ability, he was bad because A)his shield was ****ty, B) He couldn't L-cancel all of his aerials, C) He was light as **** and his ****ty shield didn't help that, and D) His techrolls and rolls were horrible.

His defense made him bad.

 

[Rikana]

Is shiek and G&W going to have Brawl's mega fastfalled dair or are you going to changed it back to melee's?

Are you going to bring JC grabs back?

Is Peach's whorenado going to be buffed?

Are we going to keep the reverse shield grab?

Is the down+tilt going to slowly bring the character slightly forward while spamming it?(like with MK,Marth, Snake, Sonic, etc.)

Are we keeping swimming, wall stcking(diddy, lucario, shiek, squirrel...) and crawling?

Are you bringing CC back? or are you going to stick to the tripping if you DI down?

1 + 2. Seeing as this is bringing back Melee and Sheik and G&W are Melee characters, that should be your answer about the dAir. Same answer about JC grab.

3. Don't know.

4. I'm sure they are.

5. Don't know about the moving dTilts.

6. Don't know about swimming and wall sticking. I'm sure they're keeping crawling. Bowser Crawling seems utterly useless for competitive play though lol.

7. I don't think they're keeping tripping at all except Diddy's bananas. They're working on CC.

Some questions could have been answered on the first post.

He couldn't L-cancel all of his aerials.

I probably played G&W a few times in the many years I've played Melee (its most likely in the single digits). What do you mean you can't L-cancel all his aerials? Which one, specifically?

 

[Shell]

1 + 2. Seeing as this is bringing back Melee and Sheik and G&W are Melee characters, that should be your answer about the dAir. Same answer about JC grab.


5. Don't know about the moving dTilts.

6. Don't know about swimming and wall sticking. I'm sure they're keeping crawling. Bowser Crawling seems utterly useless for competitive play though lol.


I probably played G&W a few times in the many years I've played Melee (its most likely in the single digits). What do you mean you can't L-cancel all his aerials? Which one, specifically?

He couldn't actually L-cancel Nair / Uair / Bair. This has been fixed for P:M

I know a few of the d-tilts no longer move forward, not sure if it'll be a universal change, though.

And you've never played with Boozer's super armor crawl, I see. Most definitely useful in competitive play.

 

[Wind Owl]

Is shiek and G&W going to have Brawl's mega fastfalled dair or are you going to changed it back to melee's?

Auto-fastfall is being removed from all moves that have it (I think just G&W, Sheik, and Sonic's dairs)

Are you going to bring JC grabs back?

They're already back.

Is Peach's whorenado going to be buffed?

Yes.

Are we going to keep the reverse shield grab?

The what?

Is the down+tilt going to slowly bring the character slightly forward while spamming it?(like with MK,Marth, Snake, Sonic, etc.)

No. It's already been removed.

Are we keeping swimming, wall stcking(diddy, lucario, shiek, squirrel...) and crawling?

Yes.

Are you bringing CC back? or are you going to stick to the tripping if you DI down?

Crouch canceling will be re-implemented.

Also, sometimes I've noticed that when you get grabbed while recovering(b4 landing) and get thrown out, you have no mid-air jump, please fix this, on melee you gaind your 2nd jump back.

This has already been fixed in Brawl+.

 

[Rikana]

And you've never played with Boozer's super armor crawl, I see. Most definitely useful in competitive play.

lol really? I don't play Bowser at all.. well, maybe a few times (less than the amount of times I played G&W on Melee). Was this in since vBrawl or added in for Brawl+?

Auto-fastfall is being removed from all moves that have it (I think just G&W, Sheik, and Sonic's dairs)

You forgot ZSS. And I think he means a RAR'd shield grab (he asked about reverse shield grab)? Not sure though.

 

[shanus]

Wind Owl got some stuff wrong. Only select characters auto FF dairs were removed.

Dtilt inching forward was removed from some chars not all.

And some other stuff I'm too lazy to type.

 

[Wind Owl]

........... ;0;

 

[Shell]

Rikana, SA crawl was added in B+.

I'm almost positive I recall seeing Bad Guy use crouch to eat a get-up attack and punish with F-smash. Absolutely glorious.

 

[Octave]

You gotta understand, G&W wasn't bad in Melee because of his recovery or his offensive ability, he was bad because A)his shield was ****ty, B) He couldn't L-cancel all of his aerials, C) He was light as **** and his ****ty shield didn't help that, and D) His techrolls and rolls were horrible.

His defense made him bad.

They fixed most of those things in Brawl and you're right, I was making it seem like his recovery was his only hindrance. I just hate to see his better recovery replaced with the lesser one.

Also "You gotta understand" makes it sound like you're begging me.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I'm begging you? xD

Who said they're going to remove his recovery?

 

[Shell]

Game & Watch's Brawl recovery with it's invuln frames, windboxes, and long distance rise/float just didn't quite fit in with a Melee atmosphere. It's still better than melee, though.

Shanus has already confirmed his beastlyness, that should be enough for you for now.

 

[Octave]

I'm begging you? xD

Who said they're going to remove his recovery?

I played it at DD's place ; _ ; I was so disappoint. And it threw me off cause we had just been playing B+..

I guess we'll just have to wait for beta. Or Shanus could base the whole new trailer on G+W and his awesomeness. :>

 

[Rikana]

Speaking of Windboxes.. are they being kept for Project M? I feel that some windboxes are over done.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Brawl+ G&W with a reliable kill move is pretty much the scariest thing I can think of off hand...


I would really leave the larger chain grabs in on the Spacies, but without making them idiot proof for ridiculous percentages. Skillful chain grabs were one of my favorite parts about Melee (one reason I played Mario and Marth).

So yes to their CGs, no to Sheik's is basically what I'm getting at. >.>


Also, I'm curious to know what's been done with Metaknight? 2 glides, 5 jumps, 4 recovery moves, disjointed hitboxes and epic priority would make for a scary Melee character.

 

[ETWIST51294]

MKs just a Jiggs that combos less and gets combo'd worse. He won't be a problem.

 

[Rikana]

Rikana, SA crawl was added in B+.

I'm almost positive I recall seeing Bad Guy use crouch to eat a get-up attack and punish with F-smash. Absolutely glorious.

And I just tried it out.. wow. Is that SA Crawling Bowser has seem broken for PM. Is that gonna be taken out too? We're working on CC so I'm assuming its gonna be taken out.

Edit: Hm the SA on Crawl doesn't seem to work on all attacks or maybe I'm doing something wrong. Certain frames or maybe SA on attacks that does equal to or less than X percent?

 

[Shell]

Don't assume anything just yet.

 

[shanus]

its not super armor, its heavy armor for bowser. I think its anything 7% and below, but i forget

 

[Rikana]

Yeah I just figured that out. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Alphatron]

Yeah, it's 7%. And don't think it will be broken for any reason at all.

ninja'd

 

[Shell]

Here's one video showing HA crouch --> F-smash (!)

For anyone who hasn't played B+ Boozer extensively this will also serve to show what we're using as a base for additional changes. Scary.

 

[Alphatron]

Aw man, the options he gets out of the HA are all awesome.

He's still grab/combo bait though. And 7% isn't that high.

 

[Rikana]

I assumed it was going to be broken in PM cause Super Armour. Heavy Armour seems much more suitable and Bowser-like. That was a really nice way to make his Crawl useful since in vBrawl, his crawl wouldn't be able to duck any projectiles.

The video displayed his Heavy Armour nicely. I'm gonna try playing Bowser some more now just because of that Heavy Armour Crawl property.