Project M Social Thread

[UltiMario]

Yep, oh so hard you don't even know.

 

[Deleted member]

We are indeed

 

[standardtoaster]

So **** right. God that was fun.

 

[leafgreen386]

As our shanus increase, our productivity goes to infinity.

obv

 

[[TSON]]

We are shanus
we do not forgive
we do not forget

 

[ds22]

Shanus is a meme now.

 

[NatP]

What the shanus are you talking about?

 

[MonkUnit]

BTW another lol breakthrough too.

Note that no one cares about the breakthrough atm because shanus.

 

[Strong Badam]

<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/vwvac3.png" width="747px" height="1161" alt="We are shanus. we do not forgive. we do not forget">

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Bowser got his melee koopa klaw back, so he can no longer klaw hop. However, he can still throw with the klaw like in melee. Some characters get new moves because some of their brawl moves don't fit in a melee environment. Also, that ganon upsmash is his upsmash from melee.

But why can't he Klaw Hop? Why can't he have the same grabbing animation/damage/whatever from Melee and still be able to Klaw Hop?

possible usless b-move upgrades:
make yoshi's neutral a longer tongue, make person stay in egg longer, or make it an air grab.

Actually, that gives me an idea. How about if the opponent always escaped predictably and directly up from the Egg? That would make it a useful move in itself.

 

[MonkUnit]

I am assuming bowser can't klaw hop due to the way his feet are during the aerial koopa klaw animation in PM. Causing him to be unable to ISJR.

 

[genkaku]

Actually, that gives me an idea. How about if the opponent always escaped predictably and directly up from the Egg? That would make it a useful move in itself.

As a Puff main, I approve.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Then he should just be programmed with another second jump after Klaw and when above ground (like Falcon and Ganon's kick).

It was an actually legitimately interesting and useful tech, and it would be even more so in Melee with L-Cancelling and wave-landing.

 

[Revven]

Then he should just be programmed with another second jump after Klaw and when above ground (like Falcon and Ganon's kick).

It was an actually legitimately interesting and useful tech, and it would be even more so in Melee with L-Cancelling and wave-landing.

It'd be silly and would make Koopa Klaw safe which isn't something we want because the follow-ups from it (on the Fthrow) are good and the Bthrow part of it is deadly. It'd be going back to the whole "lessening endlag" problem except it's just adding something for you to do and would give you no meaning to do it on the ground, you'd always opt to "Klaw Hop".

And while we could tone down the klaw itself to accommodate for a klaw hop that isn't something we want to do either because that just then puts it right back to where it is now except safer and not that great to use.

jiang can probably explain why there's no "klaw hop" better than me though but this is the way I see it.

 

[Theftz22]

Nah but seriously auto L canceling is better. A good AT adds options to the game such as wavedash, but since there are no situations in which not L cancelling is better, it just adds a useless technical barrier.

And before you say it, yes I know that there must be a certain technical barrier for the game to have depth, but if you really say that melee would not be technical enough with L cancelling then you're just being ridiculous.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Nah but seriously auto L canceling is better. A good AT adds options to the game such as wavedash, but since there are no situations in which not L cancelling is better, it just adds a useless technical barrier.

And before you say it, yes I know that there must be a certain technical barrier for the game to have depth, but if you really say that melee would not be technical enough with L cancelling then you're just being ridiculous.

RocketPSIence Edit: As of 9/19/10, I will infract you if you bring up Manual L-Canceling vs. Automatic L-Canceling. >:U

Spoiler

tencharacters

 

[Theftz22]

Oh please do not infract me great mods! I is scared! I shall repent.

I shall no longer discuss the topic despite it's relevance to the game.

 

[Strong Badam]

It's irrelevant. Aerial Lag Reduction will not be in the game and Manual L-Canceling will be. Unless you want to re-create all of our codes yourself and include Aerial Lag Reduction instead of Manual L-Canceling in your own Brawl modification, it's not happening. The people who matter don't mind, and the people who do mind will play anyway because of the people that matter, and improve to the point where they do not mind.
End of story.

 

[Plum]

It isn't relevant because there is no argument that you could possibly make for ALR .
This is Project Melee and as such its goal is to emulate the game while also improving it.

Now, you may say that removing L canceling is an improvement, but to those who are in this game's target audience that is far from the truth. If you aren't in this game's target audience, then that's a shame, but it just means that maybe this isn't a good game for you to play.

We like the technical barrier, and we aren't removing it.
If you want a better reason than "we're right, gtfo" I can give it to you in a different post, or in a PM if the mods would rather have it that way.

 

[Theftz22]

Well I certainly can't argue with that "logic".

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Could you please PM me the better reason, Plum?

I'm indifferent on the subject, just interested in what you would say.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

So what was this new breakthrough

or do i lack the ability to read

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

The easiest solution questions like that would be to put what you guys recently did, like the most recent breakthrough in the FAQ.

Anyway, I can't seem to find the post where Shanus explained how to do character pac injections to break the file size limit. Where is it again?

 

[GP&B]

Well I certainly can't argue with that "logic".

How about this: it's been discussed at least hundreds of times since this thread's existence and any continued arguing is completely useless. I can guarantee you that you will not provide anything new to your stance that has not been done before.

With that in mind, cut the rude, sarcastic comments or kindly leave.

 

[shanus]

The easiest solution questions like that would be to put what you guys recently did, like the most recent breakthrough in the FAQ.

Anyway, I can't seem to find the post where Shanus explained how to do character pac injections to break the file size limit. Where is it again?

WindOwl discovered it.

Its basically doing the same style of writing code like a fighter.pac injection, but then use a Go To (created from a noppped line and its type MUST be value, not pointer or else the game assigns a pointer table which will screw up everything) that points to the command start of your new lines in memory.

 

[standardtoaster]

So what was this new breakthrough

or do i lack the ability to read

Fixed an issue with meteor cancelling. It was just hilarious how we actually solved it. LA-Basic[57] is the meteor cancelling window. When you get into hitstun of a meteor attack, it starts at 25 in hex and counts down to 0 every frame. Turns out setting it to 0 made it halt momentum. LOL

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

ness's should....hmmm:
-ok roll with me on this,but it could be a charge like DK, when fully charged, PSI attacks come out faster(or do more damage, which ever is fairer) and pressing neutral again would release it kinda like DK's punch, but it would be PK flash instead(its damage would be the same as if you were to use flash in brawl but would be...around you, instead of trying to use it for range)...something like that...

I really don't think that PK Flash is beyond saving. Any number of small adjustments could make it not only viable, but fairly deadly.

A bit of time off the start up and cool down could make it a good AA combo starter.

More control over the projectile could make it a viable edge guard against most of the cast. Giving the ability to speed or slow its decent would make it downright scary.

Failing the previous two, giving it the Zelda ->B treatment would also work wonders.

All separate ideas, mind you. All of them would be a little ridiculous.

 

[cubaisdeath]

well, PK flash is really good, so is zelda's side b lol, combining the two as they are now would be ridiculous. stomp to pk flash is like free parking now

 

[shanus]

We already saved PK flash

 

[genkaku]

Note, every character does not need every move to be particularly useful. This is not a new concept.

 

[JOE!]

sorry for the wolf hype, i think i was just looking too closely trying to spot small differences

but yeah, from vids of bowser i've noticed to things:

1) orange flashes (i am assuming Heavy Armor?) on moves, which is great for him as he is a fatty...

2) moves like Fair, Jab and Ftilt dont seem to have as much range as they did in brawl, is this true?

Edit @ Above:

well, as a jiggs main all you need is Bair anyways so

 

[Krautrock]

Note, every character does not need every move to be particularly useful. This is not a new concept.

True, but it's almost certainly better design to avoid "vestigial" moves. It simply makes for richer gameplay. I'd rather every move have a use than (over)compensate other moves to make up for useless ones. Of course some moves can have fairly situational uses - as long as they still see play on occasion.

 

[GP&B]

Well, there are a few examples where it's simply unnecessary really. Jiggs has numerous methods for leading into Rest so Sing has no reason to be buffed. While it would be nice for Ganondorf to have a UTilt, he has one of the best Uair's in the entire game along with a powerful USmash.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

well, PK flash is really good, so is zelda's side b lol, combining the two as they are now would be ridiculous. stomp to pk flash is like free parking now

For clarification, I meant the delay in exploding, not the fast traveling projectile. Zelda's Side B with PK Flash knockback would be ridiculous.

Note, every character does not need every move to be particularly useful. This is not a new concept.

No, but a character that has proven awful in 3 straight games might require a bit more options, don't you agree?

We already saved PK flash

Manly.

 

[JOE!]

True, but it's almost certainly better design to avoid "vestigial" moves. It simply makes for richer gameplay. I'd rather every move have a use than (over)compensate other moves to make up for useless ones. Of course some moves can have fairly situational uses - as long as they still see play on occasion.

I agree with this, I'd rather master a character than master a method of using a Bair/Nado...

 

[GP&B]

I just noticed the dancing Manchu in JOE!'s sig...

 

[Krautrock]

Well, there are a few examples where it's simply unnecessary really. Jiggs has numerous methods for leading into Rest so Sing has no reason to be buffed. While it would be nice for Ganondorf to have a UTilt, he has one of the best Uair's in the entire game along with a powerful USmash.

Yeah, I can understand why it's not desirable to "fix" these sort of moves among Melee high/top tiers. Although I think it'd be theoretically better for all moves to have some purpose, even if it meant nerfing other aspects of the character, part of the premise of this project is to fully restore the top/high tiers in Melee... and so I also wouldn't advocate buffing sing/Sheik's chain/etc.

Still, for new characters and Melee low/bottom tiers that are being heavily modified anyway, making every move useful would be something to aspire to. Speaking of which, are there any plans to change Snake's side-b? It seems the rest of his moveset is pretty finalized by this point.

 

[cubaisdeath]

Speaking of which, are there any plans to change Snake's side-b? It seems the rest of his moveset is pretty finalized by this point.

lmao probably

 

[NinjaFoxX]

I really don't think that PK Flash is beyond saving. Any number of small adjustments could make it not only viable, but fairly deadly.

A bit of time off the start up and cool down could make it a good AA combo starter.

More control over the projectile could make it a viable edge guard against most of the cast. Giving the ability to speed or slow its decent would make it downright scary.

Failing the previous two, giving it the Zelda ->B treatment would also work wonders.

All separate ideas, mind you. All of them would be a little ridiculous.

to keep it fair, releasing the flash would still be somewhat slow, if only to keep it viable but not broken(like jab to flash would be a little much no?)


Dair could come out faster...i guess. and i liked the 64 Nair, we could probably go with that too.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

to keep it fair, releasing the flash would still be somewhat slow, if only to keep it viable but not broken(like jab to flash would be a little much no?)


Dair could come out faster...i guess. and i liked the 64 Nair, we could probably go with that too.

Hilarious, but a bit much yes.


I am actually in love with Brawl Nair, so it'd be pretty hard to improve upon it in my opinion.