Project M Social Thread

[Shell]

Pikachu may also become a legitimate jiggz counter in time.

 

[kaizo13]

gtfo with nerfs

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Only MK warrants needing to nerf IMO.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Dantarion has also taken some peeks into the AI code for various characters... I don't know how much we can recreate Nana AI, but time will tell.

As shanus said, ICs haven't gotten enough love yet since they're both tricky to edit and we don't have enough people playing them to provide input, but they will get done sooner or later. Perhaps once we get them in a bit better shape you can join our playtesting efforts and help refine them, Fly Amanita.

Sure. I'll be living somewhat near Connor starting next month, so I could probably play with him every now and then.

 

[Sneak8288]

Only MK warrants needing to nerf IMO.

MK doesn't need to bee nerfed... fox ***** mk

 

[Archangel]

fox ***** jiggs.. she doesnt need a nerf

Only Mango's fox and colbol's Fox have beat good Puff so far this year. Times change and MU's change with them. By the end of this year Puff>Fox just based on results it's probably already Puff>fox. Mango doesn't count and Hungrybox has started beating Colbol more and more now.

Only MK warrants needing to nerf IMO.

Logic is missing from this post -_-.

Shell brings up a point. Not just about Pika but Consider characters that sucked are gonna be overall better. That and the fact that their are 16 completely new characters who must be woven in the match-up charts. And for all we know Kirby or Game and watch may end up being even or better then Melee jiggs by the end. I don't think Puff will dominate Project Melee rather she has a rest or not. However if Puff starts placing first in right away then I suggest the rest kill being made to match Luigi's. Assuming Luigi's Shoryuken is made a decent killing move...like it was in 64

 

[Gindler]

MK doesn't need to bee nerfed... fox ***** mk

fox ***** jiggs.. she doesnt need a nerf

Fox ***** two "brokens", wonder who needs to be nerfed

 

[Sora-kun]

Only MK warrants needing to nerf IMO.

Nawww shielding is a legitimate MK counter and he was never broken in vbrawl bcuz he wasn't voted to be banned.
-logic of some ******* who said MK isn't broken-
nope. not broken at all. he needs a buff if anything e.e
/heavysarcasm

 

[jalued]

here's a thought:

Once you include all 16 brawl characters into the original line up, it will help balance the tier list. New characters will counter the melee elite(MAYBE diddy counters fox, MK counters shiek. TL counters jiggz etc).

Only time will tell, so stop talking about balance!

 

[Sora-kun]

here's a thought:

Once you include all 16 brawl characters into the original line up, it will help balance the tier list. New characters will counter the melee elite(MAYBE diddy counters fox, MK counters shiek. TL counters jiggz etc).

Only time will tell, so stop talking about balance!

You mean me? I wasn't discussing balance so much as ranting at the dumb **** who said shielding counters MK and he's not broken because SBR decided not to ban him.

 

[jalued]

You mean me? I wasn't discussing balance so much as ranting at the dumb **** who said shielding counters MK and he's not broken because SBR decided not to ban him.

wasnt meaning anyone, general comment about balance "discussion"

 

[ConnorTheKid]

Only MK warrants needing to nerf IMO.

I wholeheartedly disagree. I played MK for several hours yesterday with MacD and MK seems very balanced now that his recovery isn't ridiculous.

Sure. I'll be living somewhat near Connor starting next month, so I could probably play with him every now and then.

I'll be bringing Project M to every tournament I go to so I'm sure you'll get to try out PM often

 

[Shadic]

From that video, Link still looks like low tier garbage, well he's not really in focus now anyways right?

Improved Link is still in a testbuild right now, separate from the main one. After an appropriate amount of changes, he'll be incorporated into the main one. There's a still a couple of things that need to be worked on/tested before that happens, however.

 

[Sora-kun]

I wholeheartedly disagree. I played MK for several hours yesterday with MacD and MK seems very balanced now that his recovery isn't ridiculous.



I'll be bringing Project M to every tournament I go to so I'm sure you'll get to try out PM often

..that's cuz he was nerfed e.e his recovery not being rediculous = he was nerfed. his priority not beating out everything = he was nerfed. so.. you basically just said "he was nerfed and he seems very balanced now".

 

[JCaesar]

There are a lot of differing opinions on MK right now. Red Halberd still thinks he's amazing if not broken. I think it all depends on who you play against and the MK's playstyle. We just need more testing by top players.

 

[jalued]

There are a lot of differing opinions on MK right now. Red Halberd still thinks he's amazing if not broken. I think it all depends on who you play against and the MK's playstyle. We just need more testing by top players.

its also hard to judge until other characters are completed (fox and marths grabs especially)

 

[Sneak8288]

MK is a really good character... i just dont think he's OP and about the jiggs players beating fox... its not the character its the player . Fox still ***** jiggs on stage and if you put yourself in a position where ur off stage then you deserve to die. You make bad decisions and you lose, plain and simple. If you look how at hbox vs armada he may use alot of bairs but he did outplay him mentally as well by and mindgamed him into shielding and started grabbing and tricking him into upsmashes and thats all on the player. Jiggs doesn't need a nerf at all.

 

[SmashMac]

Shiz and I are streaming again. Here's the link:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/p-m-smashmac

If it prompts you for a password it is "smaymaypm2"

 

[I R MarF]

fox ***** jiggs.. she doesnt need a nerf

I'll agree Jiggs doesn't need a nerf. But Fox's 55:45 matchup against the baloon is hardly ****. Even statiscally speaking its pretty close. Fox is vulnerable to rest combos and her high air speed/ great recovery makes her shine gimping proof. On the other hand, Fox has amazing setups to uair, usmash, and just overall fantastic pressure game.

However, just because she doesn't have a true counter doesn't make her OP'd, and her bair has shorter range than the majority of Marth's aerials (it makes me wonder why their matchup isn't even, he could easily bat her away when she comes close and just play conservative until a uptilt comes his way).

Fox and Falco also lack a true counter. (And I'm 90% sure Fox doesn't even have a bad matchup) but hopefully this will change with brawl characters, sort of like what Jalued said earlier about Diddy, MK, and TL countering Fox, Shiek, and Jiggs... and Shell also said that pikachu may counter Jiggs as well.

 

[skrach8]

it looks like falcos shine needs to have less knock back as well as being less DIable if you want him to mirror melee.

 

[ZeroUnderOne]

it looks like falcos shine needs to have less knock back as well as being less DIable if you want him to mirror melee.

I'm glad someone else noticed that, I've been saying that to Garb and Dark Sonic since the beginning

On characters that are not fast fallers it seems he needs to full hop/dub jump to continue the combo before they are able to get out, even at low %'s. Can't use it to pillar very well either, seems like it doesn't produce enough shieldstun maybe? I dunno.

 

[Revven]

We cannot fix DIability atm and iirc, the KB has the same values Falco's Melee file gave us (including angle).

 

[FireBall Stars]

Not only the new characters but the old low tiers may be counter to some of higher tiers if they are properly buffed.

We just yet don't know how the alterations of the rest of roster will affect the top tiers, we can still only argue the balance between those characters that we know the metagame very well.

If in the end DK will become a hard counter to Fox because of buffed range, priority and movimentation AND having his old CG on Fox that BUM always did? Still, we don't know how the new DI will affect this also.

We can't really talk about balance right now, just suggest alterations that will probably make the character viable or better.

The idea is making every character viable, those who are viable, doesn't need any nerfs.

 

[Sora-kun]

Make all the characters Meta Knight. How's that for balance? <_<

 

[rPSIvysaur]

=/

I wouldn't really say that Sora. The only reason why MK is GDLK is the Brawl physics/hitstun. I mean, certain characters get shafted like Falcon and Sonic. Where infact Brawl Falcon would do amazing in a Melee environment (but I <3 Melee faclon moar. NIPPLES!). MK doesn't really have aerial movement or what not. I mean, of course there's going to be some good stuff. But you'd be amazed at how buffed he is by the Brawl physics/hitstun.

 

[I R MarF]

We cannot fix DIability atm and iirc, the KB has the same values Falco's Melee file gave us (including angle).

Speaking of DI, how does it affect chain grabs that worked in Melee? Can Marth still uthrow chain grab Fox and Falco to 30%? Or is it less effective now?

Also, speaking of Marth's CG, is Wolf vulnerable to it? If he is, I would assume it would be more effective against him because Wolf is heavier than the other spacies.

 

[a nub]

Marth can't follow up on falcon after uthrow until around 60% or so so it'll probably be like that for wolf. though mk will probably be a different story, unless being mad light stops it from going to death.

edit: actually did brawl change how weight affects throws? can't remember for the life of me. Can this be changed to match melee?

 

[Revven]

Speaking of DI, how does it affect chain grabs that worked in Melee? Can Marth still uthrow chain grab Fox and Falco to 30%? Or is it less effective now?

Also, speaking of Marth's CG, is Wolf vulnerable to it? If he is, I would assume it would be more effective against him because Wolf is heavier than the other spacies.

Marth's Uthrow hasn't been touched to work like Melee so I cannot comment on this at all. However, I can give a similar example.

Peach's Uthrow was recently made as close to as possible it can be to Melee (by Magus420 ofc <3) and because non tumble allows little to no DI at all she can CG certain characters she probably couldn't before in Melee (at low %s obv). But she can still CG characters who she was able to before in Melee. However, due to some minute inconsistency in how throws work in Brawl the %s they can probably get out are different, especially when you factor in DI.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

OK I'll elaborate.

So you removed his ability to glide from his upB.....
You may have to do a little more to prevent him from scrooging and planking, like lowering the distance he can cover via his Drill Rush and tornado.

Maybe Melee's phyiscs do make it harder, but I'm still worried that he can still do that nonense to win.

 

[FireBall Stars]

About the difference of how the throws works.

I can feel that throws in brawl works differently, but I can't figure out exactly the reason.

Can you give some superficial explanation?

 

[camelot]

Melee throws are weight-independent, i.e. they do the same amount of knockback no matter how heavy the opponent is.

Brawl throws are weight-dependent, i.e. they actually make sense.

 

[Revven]

OK I'll elaborate.

So you removed his ability to glide from his upB.....
You may have to do a little more to prevent him from scrooging and planking, like lowering the distance he can cover via his Drill Rush and tornado.

Maybe Melee's phyiscs do make it harder, but I'm still worried that he can still do that nonense to win.

You really, really, don't need to worry.

 

[I R MarF]

Marth's Uthrow hasn't been touched to work like Melee so I cannot comment on this at all. However, I can give a similar example.

Peach's Uthrow was recently made as close to as possible it can be to Melee (by Magus420 ofc <3) and because non tumble allows little to no DI at all she can CG certain characters she probably couldn't before in Melee (at low %s obv). But she can still CG characters who she was able to before in Melee. However, due to some minute inconsistency in how throws work in Brawl the %s they can probably get out are different, especially when you factor in DI.

I see, thank you for the answer.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

OK I'll elaborate.

So you removed his ability to glide from his upB.....
You may have to do a little more to prevent him from scrooging and planking, like lowering the distance he can cover via his Drill Rush and tornado.

Maybe Melee's phyiscs do make it harder, but I'm still worried that he can still do that nonense to win.

planking in Brawl is easy becaeuse you can grab the ledge with the air above your head. while in Melee, you had tograb it with your ankles (but not literally)
some characters couldnt even ledge hop and land onstage

 

[FireBall Stars]

Melee throws are weight-independent, i.e. they do the same amount of knockback no matter how heavy the opponent is.

Brawl throws are weight-dependent, i.e. they actually make sense.

You mean base knockback?

Or being weight independent causes them to only being affected by the fall speed of the character?

 

[camelot]

Or being weight independent causes them to only being affected by the fall speed of the character?

This is what I mean.

 

[Strong Badam]

it would be what you meant if he swapped "fall speed" with "weight," camelot.

 

[FireBall Stars]

No Strong_Bad, being weight independent, the throw cannot be affected by the weight of the character, thus only being able to be affected by the fall speed. This is what I questioned that he meant and this is what he meant about melee throws.

Swapping "fall speed" with "weight" gives the exactly opposite meaning to the original sentence:
"Or being weight independent causes them to only being affected by the weight of the character?"

 

[Strong Badam]

Weight affects the throwing animation of a throw in Melee.
But yeah, I was thinking wrong. Brain fart 2 good.

 

[FireBall Stars]

lol

But what you mean on weight affecting the animation? It affects the animation of the throw but not the Knockback?