Project M Social Thread

[OrlyMelee]

you are misunderstanding what i am saying.

Supermodel started the discussion on lcanceling grim continued it.

what shanus said was if supermodel's post started a discussion on lcanceling then he would remove zss. diddnt say anything about him continueing it lol

not that this matters at all its a joke i think some of this is language barrier

Well there was slide pause in between the two L-cancel discussions
but i guess your right bye bye zss

 

[SymphonicSage12]

P:M Zss wouldn't necessarily be sheik. More like sheik with a better whip...? and floatier with a higher short hop. (lol)

The only thing that needs to be made sure with ganondorf vs. captain falcon nairs is that, with both of them, the hitboxes actually last through the animation (or at least for a reasonable amount of time). But, I believe this has already been fixed.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

@Falco400: ah thanks for clearing that up. that's good to hear!

 

[Plum]

Oh, it's questions time!

And I'll answer what I can!

1. With WindOwl's discovery on bypassing filesize limit, will you now be implementing codes such as moonwalking that need to be in the char's files to work? Will it be universal, or limited to certain characters? If so, which characters?

A universal moonwalking code was attempted, but after that I don't think it has been revisited. Or at least Shanus hasn't posted in the BR that he has taken a shot at it again.
Right now the current method to give a character moonwalking is done on a character by character basis, and was limited by the size of a character's .pac. Removing this restriction does mean that each character could be given a moonwalk (ie ZSS would be hot with a moonwalk imo but wasn't possible until now). However being that this is still done on a character by character basis does mean it is time consuming. I'm also pretty sure that the moonwalking coding creates issues with foxtrotting, so especially on characters with useless moonwalks it would be a poor choice right now to give them one even if possible.
In the future when more important things are done moonwalking will probably be revisited though.

2. Would you guys consider adding either a weakness to L canceling or a strength to forgoing it's use, so it is a decision instead of an automatic 'press this button for success' mechanic? For example, if L canceling stopped all momentum, then you might instead choose not to L cancel, for the movement it preserves.

This has been brought up before. I don't really think the discussions went too far though. One of the ideas was more about changing how certain moves worked rather than L canceling itself. Almost all of us (apparently not Windowl) feel that the mechanic is perfectly fine, but for example if certain moves had landing animations lower to the ground than a characters crouch then it would create situations where the character would not L cancel in order to dodge using the landing animation.

3. How does the input for AGT zair and AGTing items differ? Airdodging and pressing A or Z both cause characters to Zair, even when holding item. How did you work around that?

There is a window where throwing the item will take precedence over Zair when canceling your airdodge. I don't know the exact frames that the window is open, but I know it is right at the start of the airdodge that it begins. Basically to AGT Zair while holding an item you have to delay your input of the AGT.

6. I'm sure alot of people are curious about specific character changes and plans, what recent plans and changes have been made to everyone?

Brawl characters that seem to be getting attention right now are MK, Charizard, and ZSS. At least these are the characters that have seen changes produced for testing or that I know for a fact are being worked on. As for the plans for them, I don't want to say anything I shouldn't. Generally speaking if you don't see it in videos or on a Dojo post it hasn't been deemed worthy of release yet. Any mention of character changes is bound to be met with a lot of... well... discussion that may or may not be wanted right now. Other characters are always under discussion though, but actual changes being done to them is not happening at this moment.

Probably more importantly is the discussion on what moves the lower tiers from Melee will receive from Brawl. Only a few characters are under discussion (Link, Pikachu, G&W and Ness as Shanus has said in this thread before) but more will be opened up as these are finished. It's basically taking the best aspects of these characters from each game to make the character as good as can be.

8. I believe that someone mentioned earlier that the moonwalking preventjs DACUS(?) from working, if it does indeed, why, and can that be fixed?

DACUS works fine on characters with moonwalks (tried it with Falcon... his DACUS is useless but it still worked ). Moonwalking does mess up foxtrotting though as I mentioned.
DACUS is effected by friction and are not as useful as they were in Brawl without the crazy stage crossing distance that the prevalent ones had, but are still fully possible.

3 Questions (For now...)

1. How are you guys intending to handle Ike? Is he going to play out like Ganon with a sword or do you have something else in mind for him?

Ganon with a sword is probably the best way to compare him to a Melee character right now (Kage playing Ike ). I can't say for sure what is going to be done to revamp him, if anything. It might be decided that a similar playstyle to Ganon is what Ike needs (slow, but monster spacing tools, staple combos, and kill power up the wazoo).

3. What is Wolf's speciality in comparison to the other spacies (besides being able to pummel crazy fast)? Are you planning to do something special with his shine? Or will laser baiting then reverse wavedash to fsmash be his main tactic?

First of all, his Shine is ground cancelable ala Fox in SSB64. Just look up Fox's shine cancel in SSB64 to see what it is if you don't know.
His lasers are jump cancelable. So he can laser > wavedash, laser > jump > aerial/special, laser > JC grab, laser > Usmash, laser > SHGC shine (short hop ground canceled)... basically he has a ton of tricks and combos with his lasers, and he can really lob out laser spam too (though not to the degree of Falco). Saying that laser wavedash Fsmash is the only thing he can do with his lasers is a huuuuge understatement. I would say that he has much better use of the JC than that too.
I don't really play Wolf other than casually so I can't make too many comments on his playstyle because I don't play him at the same level as my actual characters.

 

[Dantarion]

Dojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojodojo

 

[SymphonicSage12]

If it was anyone else, I'd say it was spam, but since it's Dantarion I say it's hype.

 

[I R MarF]

i dunno is anyone really interested in project m zss? you might as well play shiek.

Actually, I think the stun gun and whip attacks make her pretty different.

And I'll answer what I can!


Ganon with a sword is probably the best way to compare him to a Melee character right now (Kage playing Ike ). I can't say for sure what is going to be done to revamp him, if anything. It might be decided that a similar playstyle to Ganon is what Ike needs (slow, but monster spacing tools, staple combos, and kill power up the wazoo).



First of all, his Shine is ground cancelable ala Fox in SSB64. Just look up Fox's shine cancel in SSB64 to see what it is if you don't know.
His lasers are jump cancelable. So he can laser > wavedash, laser > jump > aerial/special, laser > JC grab, laser > Usmash, laser > SHGC shine (short hop ground canceled)... basically he has a ton of tricks and combos with his lasers, and he can really lob out laser spam too (though not to the degree of Falco). Saying that laser wavedash Fsmash is the only thing he can do with his lasers is a huuuuge understatement. I would say that he has much better use of the JC than that too.
I don't really play Wolf other than casually so I can't make too many comments on his playstyle because I don't play him at the same level as my actual characters.

Thankyou for the answers; I am really looking forward to Wolf now!

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

omg pew pew dont work

 

[.Fade]

What's happening at the Dojo? o_o

I applied for the PMBR :D

Oh, and Connor "The Kid" applying is legit. =]

 

[GP&B]

I'd work on building my PSA skills and also making Dolphin+Melee available on my laptop, but I'm unsure about my time constraints with my upcoming fall session for college.

I guess I'll find out if I can make time for this before I bother applying. I'd love to help out.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Hey guys. One thing that I have noticed from viewing recent Project M videos is that characters are much less vocal when attacking. That was one aspect of Brawl I actually LIKED over Melee. Can that be fixed?

Example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soDJQDtSD3s

 

[Wind Owl]

No. It's intentional.

 

[shanus]

Correction to Plum: Moonwalks do not interfere with foxtrots anymore.

 

[Plum]

Correction to Plum: Moonwalks do not interfere with foxtrots anymore.

Sexy.

10sex

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Just a question that might have already been answered by StrongBad, but not clearly enough.

Captain Falcon and Link are the only characters who can moonwalk in melee (from memory, I might be wrong). Which characters do you think would actually get some use out of being able to moonwalk? Some characters I think would benefit are:

Luigi (it would give him crazy spacing tools when combined with wavedashing and crawldashing if that's still in)
Sheik (just to make her even more broken...it just seems like a ninja type move)
Samus (suits her style)

and idk who else, but especially Luigi imo.

 

[Sterowent]

well, what controls how well a moonwalk works? if it's a matter of friction, then luigi's will blow. sonic's would be hella good. can't really think of many high friction characters right now, with a good running speed (sorry, snake).

 

[.Fade]

Just a question that might have already been answered by StrongBad, but not clearly enough.

Captain Falcon and Link are the only characters who can moonwalk in melee (from memory, I might be wrong). Which characters do you think would actually get some use out of being able to moonwalk? Some characters I think would benefit are:

Luigi (it would give him crazy spacing tools when combined with wavedashing and crawldashing if that's still in)
Sheik (just to make her even more broken...it just seems like a ninja type move)
Samus (suits her style)

and idk who else, but especially Luigi imo.

Everyone can moonwalk. CF's is just more 'useful', and Link's looks funny. =3

 

[ConnorTheKid]

everyone can moonwalk by walking in a direction then moonwalking in the same direction thanks to the momentum from walking. Falcon, Ganon, Mewtwo, Link and Young Link are the only ones that don't need to walk to go a decent distance IIRC.

Oh, and Connor "The Kid" applying is legit. =]

=P I really hope I get accepted

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Well I meant giving people moonwalking like captain falcon or link's where they just need to dash forward, and then make a half circle downwards and hold backwards.

 

[a nub]

Falcon, link, yl, yoshi, ganon, and kirby (iirc) are the only characters who can moonwalk out of the initial dash. Everyone else can only do it out of the walk animation. Spacies and m2 could still use it but most other moonwalks are pretty much useless.

 

[Sterowent]

nah, but why does falcon's have better applications than, say, fox's? not that it's a big deal. from what i know, people generally use moonwalks for a bit of fanfare. fun for the crowd.

offtopic: i know i suggested stuff for ike before, but, uh, i might as well spit some extra stuff. is it possible to give ike a better reward for his counter? i was thinking making a successful ike counter IASA into other B moves, so he'd have some defense vs some form of gimp. at least like this, his opponent would have to be more careful coming down to intercept him from below the edge. at least like this he would still lose height, but since his counter slows his fall it'd fit pretty well. edit: if you think about it, this would fit in with his other gimp defense. as in, a good ike will very often get a few hits in if he's going to be gimped, like jumping into his sideB. opponent is forced to make a decision about risking a big hit or not

 

[kaizo13]

good luck Connor

hope you get in,...SoCal needs some P:M action

 

[Turbo Ether]

Speaking of Ike's counter, I really hope it was sped up. 10 frame startup on his counter in vBrawl is a complete joke.

 

[Magus420]

Everyone can moonwalk if they have momentum in the direction of the moonwalk. It doesn't need to be from a walk specifically. You can multimoonwalk to start moving backwards after the first one with just about everyone and you can also wavedash/land into it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Ike's high startup on his counter was due to the fact that his counter was a lot stronger than marth's. But I also agree that it is too much risk for not enough reward.

 

[Sterowent]

yeah, that's the thing. if his counter is that slow to startup, i'm curious why it's so bad. that's why i suggest this stuff. that, and i really like knowing people will worry about gimping him.
on another ike note, i can't wait to see someone JC his QD > counter. that'll be pretty hilarious. especially...if my suggestion gets some leeway. JCQD > counter > JCQD > uair? hahhh, yesssssss (edit: on second thought, maybe this wouldn't work. at mid percents, i bet it could. at low, maybe he would go with nair or a grab or somethin. depends on the countered move!)


thanks for the info, magus. still not sure what great applications it'll have though. i wish you could integrate pivot grabs into moonwalk somehow, but it'd probably be OP or ridiculous.

 

[humble]

I'd like to see Metaknight with a moonwalk, as well as Diddy, ZSS, and Squirtle.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Squirtle's pivot animation is better than a moonwalk IMO

 

[Turbo Ether]

Thankyou for the answers; I am really looking forward to Wolf now!

Wolf is a blast in P:M. He can be played so aggressively, it's totally an orgasmic experience. Cancels are hype.

Relentless rushdown ftw.

 

[SuperT00n]

posted my application

 

[Gindler]

Link's way too good in Project M and fun

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Here's a question.

I like having a large amount of stages available.

Will any of the P:M stages require a .rel???
I like having all of the old stages sans Hanenbow(that stage can burn away).

I want to know this so I can plan ahead to make button modifier codes to load the old stages while the P:M stages can be over the normal slot.

 

[Shadic]

Link's way too good in Project M and fun

He'll get better.

 

[I R MarF]

So how is Meta Knight doing?

I only ask because I was wondering how a P:M MK against a fully meleefied P:M Jiggs would turn out.

 

[stingers]

i want to see normal brawl mk against a fully meleefied P:M jiggs...it'd just be so interesting

 

[SuperT00n]

i want to see normal brawl mk against a fully meleefied P:M jiggs...it'd just be so interesting

vegeta what does the scouter say about their ledge grabs?
It's OVER 900!!!!!!!

 

[Hellsinglover999]

vegeta what does the scouter say about their ledge grabs?
It's OVER 900!!!!!!!

i dont think jiggs would grab the ledge that many times...

 

[I R MarF]

It would probably turn out as one of the few "true" 50:50 matchups (sort of like Marth and Fox). Jiggs has her mobility and rest, but MK's extra jumps and weaker attacks would allow him to continually combo and rack up damage. On top of that, his sword gives him high priority and a disjointed hitbox giving him a slight spacing advantage.

In the end I could see Jiggs bair gimping MK on the sides and MK pushing Jiggs to death at the top boundary.

 

[Hellsinglover999]

i would perfer melee fox vs brawl mk lool it wouldnt even be close imo

 

[stingers]

i think brawl mk could still beat melee fox. invincible up b > foxes nair