Megachuk
Smash Ace
you guys have got to be ****ing kidding if you think ANY brawl character requires more tech skill than jiggs, or any other melee character for that matter.
wow...
wow...
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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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hotdogturtle
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
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- 3,503
What kind of debate can I cause that will make you delete Snake?
dabridge
Smash Journeyman
random lurker
Funniest post in this thread. [/offtopic]
So yeah guys, great work with Project M! Me and my friends are super hyped about this
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
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- 26,550
He already has Melee Bair.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
As in, the animation and all?
Good to know, thank you.
Good to know, thank you.
Requires more tech skill no, but at high levels more tech skill is incorporated into playstyles.
And L cancelling isn't even much of a requirement. Most other 2D fighters are a **** ton harder just be happy lol.
OrlyMelee
Smash Cadet
you wouln't do that even if it wasn't a joke
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
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- 3,601
As I said earlier: stop looking at L-canceling as an advanced technique. It's just part of an input or command. You have to be able to precisely input your aerial+L to outspeed disrespectful shieldgrabbing, similar to how you have to be able to quickly input 623+P to anti-air disrespectful jump-ins in Street Fighter. Fighting games are supposed to reward precision AND strong mental play. Not just one or the other.
- Joined
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- 26,550
We'd prefer it if people didn't get into brawl vs. melee arguments in here.
Shanus doesn't bluff.
Turbo Ether's posts seem to be about the most intelligent I've seen in this thread by a person outside of the BR.
Shanus doesn't bluff.
Turbo Ether's posts seem to be about the most intelligent I've seen in this thread by a person outside of the BR.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
I would. This has been overdone far too many times.you wouln't do that even if it wasn't a joke
EDIT: Definitely agreeing here. Turbo Ether just made a ton of sense and delivered that argument far better than anyone could ever think to do.
FireBall Stars
Smash Ace
Turbo Ether's arguments are very plausible indeed, makes much sense.
I guess that when L-cancel was included in the game, that reason may have been thought.
Or not, well, who knows.
I guess that when L-cancel was included in the game, that reason may have been thought.
Or not, well, who knows.
humble
Smash Ace
Oh, it's questions time!
1. With WindOwl's discovery on bypassing filesize limit, will you now be implementing codes such as moonwalking that need to be in the char's files to work? Will it be universal, or limited to certain characters? If so, which characters?
2. Would you guys consider adding either a weakness to L canceling or a strength to forgoing it's use, so it is a decision instead of an automatic 'press this button for success' mechanic? For example, if L canceling stopped all momentum, then you might instead choose not to L cancel, for the movement it preserves.
3. How does the input for AGT zair and AGTing items differ? Airdodging and pressing A or Z both cause characters to Zair, even when holding item. How did you work around that?
4. Landing detection is the main code that the project still needs, what possible solutions are currently being explored?
5. You said you'd made progress with making CC better. Does this mean it is now universally available for all hits, or is it still in a limited form? Can it be universally implemented, or is there some obstacle to it?
6. I'm sure alot of people are curious about specific character changes and plans, what recent plans and changes have been made to everyone?
7. When the L canceling topic is brought up again, or another of the repeated, unnecessary topics which are rendered pointless because you already have a clear cut decision and statement on the matter, could people just link to the second post until they stop trolling?
8. I believe that someone mentioned earlier that the moonwalking prevents DACUS(?) from working, if it does indeed, why, and can that be fixed?
9. What do you guys believe entails a positive post, and how can the posters of this topic best help and encourage the devs?
10. At this time is there any topic you'd like to steer the discussion towards?
D
Deleted member
Guest
I was just thinking, you guys might not want to bother making so many stages, since for tournament play having a great deal of stages isn't necessarily a good thing, since counter picks will have a much stronger influence.
I'm just saying for your own sakes (I'm sure this stuff takes a crapload of time) you may want to focus more on characters who will all be used, rather than making tons of stages, only some of which will be used.
Also, like 10 pages ago you guys were talking about how you were sick of answering questions. You should recruit a person whose specific purpose is answering questions in the thread.
I'm just saying for your own sakes (I'm sure this stuff takes a crapload of time) you may want to focus more on characters who will all be used, rather than making tons of stages, only some of which will be used.
Also, like 10 pages ago you guys were talking about how you were sick of answering questions. You should recruit a person whose specific purpose is answering questions in the thread.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
@humble
For #8 I believe JC grabs needed reduced traction and so DACUS suffers because of this. If moonwalking is related though, I might've missed that.
For #8 I believe JC grabs needed reduced traction and so DACUS suffers because of this. If moonwalking is related though, I might've missed that.
ICHIGOBLEACH
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2010
- Messages
- 114
god dammit guys l-canceling will be the same as melee. what don't you guys ****ing understand about this? if you don't like it go back to brawl, that way you can't lag-cancel!!!!!
humble
Smash Ace
Bringing back stages is certainly interesting, and I believe that the people working on the stages are specifically skilled in that department; FroznHobo, GameWatching, etc. It's part of the whole package, and can be altered to fit competitive play.
Essentially a PR rep for PM, haha, it'd be interesting, but I think the team is willing to answer questions so long as they are good questions, and not repetitive, trolling, or ludicrous. The questions are an important way for everyone to learn more about the project directly from the devs, and if they find it irritating or distracting from their work, appointing a PR man for the thread is a clear solution to it.
Sterowent
Smash Ace
puu, those working on stages are basically not working with characters. stage directors are volunteers from around the workshop in general. (edit: ninjaed!)
also, if you aren't familiar with b+'s way of counterpicking, and the new BBR's stage list setup: stages with a familiar advantageous theme are grouped together, so rather than banning a certain stage players may ban a group of stages. of course, no stage is the exact same as another, but many are very similar. for instance, delphino and halberd hold many similarities. this gives players more options but in the same manner, except more varied stages exist.
also, if you aren't familiar with b+'s way of counterpicking, and the new BBR's stage list setup: stages with a familiar advantageous theme are grouped together, so rather than banning a certain stage players may ban a group of stages. of course, no stage is the exact same as another, but many are very similar. for instance, delphino and halberd hold many similarities. this gives players more options but in the same manner, except more varied stages exist.
humble
Smash Ace
I understand that it's important to retain it's melee form, and I certainly agree that the mechanic is important to the project. However if we can manipulate the mechanic to add depth, it could certainly work for the better of the project.
However suggesting "Go back to brawl if you don't like it" is the same as all the naysayers who say "go back to melee if you don't like it". Obviously people are interested in the project and like it as a whole, just discussing minor details and mechanics; don't leap to the superlative conclusion and tell people to just quit if they don't like it.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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- Apr 12, 2006
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- 3,601
Thanks. I pretty much love all things fighting game related and have been observing the mechanics and metagames of several of them(Melee really being the first) for a while now, so I have a pretty good understanding of the principles.
SymphonicSage12
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
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- 3,299
The fate of l-cancelling has already been decided. MAKING ARGUMENTS ABOUT IT IS POINTLESS.
I could swear I'm quoting one of the devs right now.
And to quote Turbo Ether:
I could swear I'm quoting one of the devs right now.
And to quote Turbo Ether:
L-Cancelling indeed does all TurboEther said. It needs no modification or altering. Humble, having a different kind of l-cancel than melee will NOT be the better for this project.
I R MarF
Smash Ace
3 Questions (For now...)
1. How are you guys intending to handle Ike? Is he going to play out like Ganon with a sword or do you have something else in mind for him?
2. Additionally, have you guys considered changing Ike's neutral b to something he actually does in the game? A good option would be his long ranged energy attack. It could have set knockback and a recharge period to make it less effective as a killing/camping (due its already massive size and incredible speed) but rather more effective for limiting approach options or offense
3. What is Wolf's speciality in comparison to the other spacies (besides being able to pummel crazy fast)? Are you planning to do something special with his shine? Or will laser baiting then reverse wavedash to fsmash be his main tactic?
1. How are you guys intending to handle Ike? Is he going to play out like Ganon with a sword or do you have something else in mind for him?
2. Additionally, have you guys considered changing Ike's neutral b to something he actually does in the game? A good option would be his long ranged energy attack. It could have set knockback and a recharge period to make it less effective as a killing/camping (due its already massive size and incredible speed) but rather more effective for limiting approach options or offense
3. What is Wolf's speciality in comparison to the other spacies (besides being able to pummel crazy fast)? Are you planning to do something special with his shine? Or will laser baiting then reverse wavedash to fsmash be his main tactic?
Sterowent
Smash Ace
if strongbad could quote turbo ether under that part of the FAQ, it'd be much appreciated.
so, are you guys going to do the counterpick system as b+ did? my last post somewhat outlined the underlying idea. it has flaws, such as with multiple strategies under some stages. however, with as many viable stages with unique layouts and gimmicks, you'd think the only alternative would be to trim down the list, which would be unfortunate on so many levels.
edit: wow, i just realized: fox - usmash, falco - fsmash, wolf - dsmash. hahhh
so, are you guys going to do the counterpick system as b+ did? my last post somewhat outlined the underlying idea. it has flaws, such as with multiple strategies under some stages. however, with as many viable stages with unique layouts and gimmicks, you'd think the only alternative would be to trim down the list, which would be unfortunate on so many levels.
edit: wow, i just realized: fox - usmash, falco - fsmash, wolf - dsmash. hahhh
Oshtoby
Smash Apprentice
Oh, I have a question! With the addition of, as Shanus put it, "Z now triggers aerials instead of air dodge," from both a gameplay and a coding stand point, how will this effect characters like Toon Link or Samus, where their Z-Air actually DOES something?
Run-on sentence.
Run-on sentence.
ManEg
Smash Journeyman
It's gonna affect them the same way it did in melee.
humble
Smash Ace
EDIT: I acknowledge it's an idea that wouldn't gain traction and isn't going to be used. Moving forward, did anyone have answers to my questions?
Haha sorry Shanus. ;P
blue arrow to go to the post.
Haha sorry Shanus. ;P
SymphonicSage12
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 3,299
It won't affect those particular characters. I think.
EDIT: ninjaa'ddddd
EDIT: ninjaa'ddddd
ICHIGOBLEACH
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2010
- Messages
- 114
so i spent 3 seconds testing this in melee
and it does there zair
edit: humble stfu. this is melee albeit 2.0, they aren't changing the core mechanics
Oshtoby
Smash Apprentice
I figure that that is what the desired end result is, but I'm more asking (hence me saying "from a coding stand point") how their code effects it.
Basically, I'm being an *** and asking if they bug tested it with them. I could see a glitch happening if they made the code the way I THINK they did, though they most likely did not. I program games as a hobby, so I like to consider myself a clever bug finder.
ManEg
Smash Journeyman
Oh I see. In that case, Im gonna let the developers answer that one, since it goes beyond my knowledge
humble
Smash Ace
1. No, he didn't need much changing to fit in, QD movement shenanigans with JC, L canceling helped him alot and he is pretty effective at utilizing WD to space his ridiculous range.I R Marf said:
2. I think for now it's still Eruption, you can DI and move while charging it in the air now though.
3. Wolf is amazing already, he plays great. Shine canceling on landing, multijabs, etc. He's pretty smooth as a character, and plays quite different from the other spacies.
ManEg
Smash Journeyman
Does anyone know what will be done with falco's up-b? According to the latest build, it hasn't been changed.
humble
Smash Ace
It might be changed to preserve momentum if it doesn't already(?) but other then that I think it's staying as is.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Its already single hit like melee, it just needs to preserve momentum at the end of it.
ManEg
Smash Journeyman
The momentum aspect was the one that I was asking about. Why it hasn't been done yet? It is difficult to program?
Sterowent
Smash Ace
edit: nvm that part. question. will his melee upB be restored in both momentum and distance?
also, humble, what are you doing?
also, humble, what are you doing?
humble
Smash Ace
Posting? 10wuts
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