Project M Social Thread

[Strong Badam]

SSE Jungle's iffy. The rest for sure.

 

[Sterowent]

n/a = didn't feel like commenting or didn't know enough to comment.
edit: plum for easy reading

From this then I'm guessing the stage list will be like:

STARTER:
Pokemon Stadium 1(Melee) - possibly, though it's grass trans right now only. would like to see the full stage return, but it'd probably be a starter/counterpick
Pokemon Stadium 2 - frozen, of course. this seems a little boring though
Rumble Falls+ - hells yeah (edit: strongbad says uneven enough to not be starter material)
Dreamland (N64) - hope they can get everything in. i wish the wind would return...
Metal Mario Stage (N64) - hells yeah. it's a somewhat small stage, so it and story on the same starter list could be a prob. less recovery platforms at least (edit: strongbad says too small, uneven terrain. bad for techchasers)
Subspace Jungle - this stage is huge with short sideways blastzones. it'll be at least starter/cp and at best starter for teams only (edit: better as cp/ban in singles, starter/cp in doubs?)
Fountain of Dreams (Melee) - no teams lag now too.
Yoshi's Story (Melee) - with randall and everything
WarioWare - frozen. you'd think that'd be a little boring, but it's one of the most exciting. combo platforming! and it's a little small
Battlefield - i wonder if they'll edit to melee or not
Final Destination - same as above. never liked this stage anyway, melee or brawl
Smashville - not much needs to be said. being bigger, i hope the platform isn't too high
Yoshi's Island - man, this variable platform is going to be interesting. i wish they'd make the ghost on a predictable timer (edit: strongbad says uneven terrain could cause probs)

COUNTERPICK:
Hyrule Castle (N64) - only if they can solve the green monster problem. if only you couldn't tech that thing, hahhh. plus, huge stage. and, maybe in the future, nados...?
Castle Siege - great stage, but some don't think the trans pass for fair play, specifically the walk-off part. love this stage though, all of it
Delfino Plaza - cool stage. the water might turn people away, but it's an interesting cp at least.
Frigate Orpheon - this stage is bull****
Halberd - also interesting, but i don't know what to say. a lot like a 'fairer' delphino...?
Lylat Cruise - tilts at a strange but predictable rate. annoying as hell, but not bannable, i guess...(edit: unless TO wants to of course, hah. totally cp/ban)
Norfair (+?) - n/a
PictoChat (+?) - i like this stage, in all its ridiculous glory. if only you could lower some of the dmg/KB on the hazards...and that spring despawn was more drawn out for observation
Pirate Ship (+?) - n/a
Brinstar - classic. it's also pretty bull****, but that's how these things go. it's definitely cp/ban though
Jungle Japes - cp/ban. you know how this one goes
Rainbow Cruise - cp/ban. same as above

BANNED:
Port Town Aero Dive (+?) - if it were +, it might not be as bad, but it wouldn't be as good as melee's. now, if you wanna talk about something like...falcon destination...(someone make that stage's sky swirl! it's just a stationary pic!)
Distant Planet (+?) - cool stage, but only if they can keep the water running to avoid walk-off problems. it could swing cp/ban
75m - yeah
Bridge of Eldin (+?) - let sleeping dogs lie. yep, bansssss
Flat Zone 2 - indeed
Green Hill Zone - if there was a + version of this with a destroyable 1-up box, i'd play it often
Hanenbow (+?) - n/a
Luigi's Mansion (+?) - same as GHZ. it's a huge stage, but that's okay. the mansion's always had a lot of proposed changes though. if they could stick to one, the most viable one, it'd totally be a cp/ban, more cp than ban
Mario Bros. - n/a
Mario Circuit - sadly, yeah. **** walk-offs
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 - indeed.
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 - they were working on a stage mod for this, but it never panned out in cause of bugs. too bad
New Pork City (+?) - yep, no doubt. even with +, it's just a bit too contrived for consideration
Shadow Moses Island - unfortunate. no gimp opportunities on this stage whatsoever...
Skyworld (+?) - hells no it's not gonna be a banned stage. well, + won't be. good stage with the right modifications! at least cp/ban, much more cp than ban!
Spear Pillar (+?) - cave of life. circle camping. neither ever go away on this stage...(edit: even in its mods. thing is incredibly resistant to fair modification)
Summit - n/a
Big Blue - n/a
Corneria - wait, what's this doing down here?
Green Greens - n/a
Onett - walk-0ffs aren't so bad here, but the no gimping might not be so hot.
Temple - n/a
Yoshi's Island (Melee) - i've seen a cool mod for this recently, but it looks a bit, uh...detached. but, yeah, bannable as is!

comments after dashes.

 

[JCaesar]

To be fair, like other BRs, we can only recommend a stage list (hopefully a better one than the BBR ). It's ultimately up to the TOs.

 

[I R MarF]

Dang... no midair stadium? All well, I guess it is too similar to Final Destination and might be a HUGE advantage to characters that thrive on those kinds of stages because you can play both without breaking Dave's stupid rule.

But I <3 vBrawl pivot grab. It's Lucas' only good grab. Like the start-up and end-lag are fine and the actual grab box isn't extended much compared to standing grab.

Hm... would Olimar benefit more from it then?

 

[Blitzkrieg98]

What monster have I crafted now? Did I just throw everybody into a discussion of stage legality?

*looks again*

It seems I may have... Or perhaps what I did was expedite the inevitable? Hard to tell with this thread sometimes.

 

[Sterowent]

Dang... no midair stadium? All well, I guess it is too similar to Final Destination and might be a HUGE advantage to characters that thrive on those kinds of stages because you can play both without breaking Dave's stupid rule.

the one thing the BBR did right, though, was copy the WBR with B+'s recommended stage list (note: i have no idea if b+ is the exact origin of this process of stage cp'ing, but it's defintely the first place i heard of it). basically, pairing stages up for the sake of players being able to ban stage strategies across the board, aka banning multiple stages for the same reason.

edit:

What monster have I crafted now? Did I just throw everybody into a discussion of stage legality?

*looks again*

It seems I may have... Or perhaps what I did was expedite the inevitable? Hard to tell with this thread sometimes.

hah, yep. so many stages have come along...this discussion was certainly inevitable, but with the stage list at present it's definitely a viable focal point now. great stages. give probs to GameWatching, FroBro, and Mewtwo2000!

 

[Turbo Ether]

Not related to the current topic, but the subject of L-canceling has come up recently and i'd like to touch on it.

Think of it like Thunder Knuckle and Seismic Hammer Canceling with C.Viper in SSF4. There's little reason not to cancel the lag on your pokes, when trying to create a high pressure situation, but the reward is so great, it'd be ridiculous if everyone could do it for free. Thus, a VERY high execution barrier is in place to keep scrubs from easily abusing such powerful and potentially overwhelming tools.

Don't look at L-canceling as an advanced tech. Look at it as simply an input for a move.

 

[Sneak8288]

Not related to the current topic, but the subject of L-canceling has come up recently and i'd like to touch on it.

Think of it like Thunder Knuckle and Seismic Hammer Canceling with C.Viper in SSF4. There's little reason not to cancel the lag on your pokes, when trying to create a high pressure situation, but the reward is so great, it'd be ridiculous if everyone could do it for free. Thus, a VERY high execution barrier is in place to keep scrubs from easily abusing such powerful and potentially overwhelming tools.

Don't look at L-canceling as an advanced tech. Look at it as simply an input for a move.

Exactly, and the key word is execution. without proper execution you suck, and deserve to suck. Plain and simple. Also i like the variety of stages that might be tourney legal. I hate how nowadays at tourneys any stage that isn't neutral that gave spacies advantage is banned :-(

 

[shanus]

So some updates for peopple since people love updates.

WindOwl and I have been doing some coding lately:

-Z now triggers aerials instead of air dodge
-Removed rare occasional air dodge bug
-Jab reset code greatly improved, now supports options such as thunders combo since we got that action figured out
-CCing code additionally improved to feel more natural

 

[JCaesar]

The progress, THE PROGRESS!!!

/head asplodes

 

[Sterowent]

****, i love updates

So some updates for peopple since people love updates.

WindOwl and I have been doing some coding lately:

-Z now triggers aerials instead of air dodge
-Removed rare occasional air dodge bug
-Jab reset code greatly improved, now supports options such as thunders combo since we got that action figured out
-CCing code additionally improved to feel more natural

12:34 is a magic number!
edit: ****

 

[Turbo Ether]

Is there anyway for you guys to implement a cool visual effect when you CC something, like when you L-cancel?

 

[Wind Owl]

We could. Not sure what it woud be.

The fact that you're crouching and cancelling your hitstun is... sort of obvious, though.

 

[XkaruX]

-Jab reset code greatly improved, now supports options such as thunders combo since we got that action figured out
-CCing code additionally improved to feel more natural

Hype! Specially for Jab reset.

 

[V-K]

I love progress, can´t wait for the game. :3

 

[FireBall Stars]

So, CC is surely returning? Awesome.

For some reason, it came to my mind that Snake will have a top tier CC like Samus.

Hmm...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I just heard that you guys have eliminated the file size issue for ZSS/Samus.

I love you guys. =)

 

[GP&B]

If you wanted to add a CC effect for lulz, I'd probably use something similar to the dash dust and make it appear in front of the character that successfully CC'd.

With that aside, it's amazing to hear all the tightening up of loose ends and more. It's just that darn landing detection that's really holding back a solid prediction for a release date.

Another thing, I'm planning on doing a test with Link's Bair that involves hurtboxes. However, I must ask something first: Are you already rebuilding or planning to rebuild Link's Bair into his Melee/64 animation? If that hasn't been considered, I'm going to go through with my test and decide whether that is absolutely necessary or just something I'd like to see done for the sake of visuals.

 

[OrlyMelee]

apex vids are outdated already, good job people

 

[hotdogturtle]

Even if some of those starters that GrimTuesday listed are actually counterpicks, that's still a beefy stage list.

And with the amount of open spots from banned stages, it's possible for them to add more legal stages later down the line if people create new ones.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Exactly, and the key word is execution. without proper execution you suck, and deserve to suck. Plain and simple. Also i like the variety of stages that might be tourney legal. I hate how nowadays at tourneys any stage that isn't neutral that gave spacies advantage is banned :-(

Because people with poor tech skill are automatically scrubs

 

[FireBall Stars]

Well, I wouldn't worry about stages legality.

If something looks wrong, just fix it later.

 

[OverLade]

Because people with poor tech skill are automatically scrubs

In Melee they are lol.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

64 too.

Unless you are using rel files, you would have to make those other stages to work over existing ones. Or you can just use more SSE stages like Subspace depths.

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

Because people with poor tech skill are automatically scrubs

um yeah for the most part

 

[Shadic]

Because people with poor tech skill are automatically scrubs

No, but they shouldn't be playing on par with people who have good tech skill.

*Shadic is not a good technical player.*

Also your sig makes me laugh every time I see it.

 

[hotdogturtle]

No, but they shouldn't be playing on par with people who have good tech skill.

Of course they should. How else do you expect them to get better?

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

Of course they should. How else do you expect them to get better?

he said they shouldn't be as good as them not that they shouldn't play with them lol

 

[Cemetery]

CC? I probably know what it is, I'm just not too sure 'bout the acronym.

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

Crouch Cancel
you guys should know this stuff lol

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I was never able to play Melee because I have a condition of impaired kinesthesis that makes it difficult to perform very precise movements in a quick consistent fashion. Call me Mr. Bubbles.

I am still looking forward to this project however because I have always wondered what a few characters would be like in Melee, and also because it gives me a fresh opportunity to learn.

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

I was never able to play Melee because I have a condition of impaired kinesthesis that makes it difficult to perform very precise movements in a quick consistent fashion. Call me Mr. Bubbles.

then play jiggs

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

then play jiggs

In melee, Jigglypuff is more technical than almost any Brawl character.

 

[JCaesar]

No, but they shouldn't be playing on par with people who have good tech skill.

*Shadic is not a good technical player.*

2nded.

*JCaesar is not a good technical player either.*

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

In melee, Jigglypuff is more technical than almost any Brawl character.

what are you trying to prove here?

 

[GP&B]

I'd vouch to say that Brawl Link might be more technical than Melee Jiggs, but I have only seen videos of him and have no experience with him in vBrawl. Can't make as defined of a judgement as I'd like to.

 

[OverLade]

I'm super technical in brawl XD.

My tech skill in Melee is pretty bad though which is why I play sheik...

edit:
MK, Snake and ICs can be/are more technical than Melee jiggs btw.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

what are you trying to prove here?

Just that tech skill =/= good player or vice versa really. It definitely helps, though.

For the purposes of this project I support manual L-cancelling although had I designed melee, it would not have been a part of that game, either for reasons many have mentioned. That's what the tech skill argument always comes back to.

L-cancelling was dumb, with it's melee implementation. Now if L-cancelling had a potential down-side that made occasionally choosing to -not- L-cancel I'd be down for that.

Ugh, I'm sorry for this post. I'm sick of the L-cancel argument too. Project: M is going to be fine with or without it.

 

[Strong Badam]

I was going to come in here to answer some questions and then I didn't see any... awesome!

 

[Cemetery]

Crouch Cancel
you guys should know this stuff lol

My ******* was drawing a blank, yeah.
Sorry.