Project M Social Thread

[SymphonicSage12]

No like when you fly the bird, how would you get it to fly about or move as it would in a zelda game? I would think any animation inputted would be choppy and not natural-looking. I mean you're talking about a living, moving animal here, not adding in some inanimate object.

At LE: nvm

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Do you mean when thrown, or when held? While held there would be an animation for it, and in PSA you could make it so he falls slower while holding it, it's like snake's cypher, only for the cucco you would put a lower value on the upward velocity so it counteracts his fall speed to a degree, but he falls still at the speed you desire.

If you mean when thrown, you could always replace an item like the gooey bomb with the cucco model, then change it in PSA to act as you desire, then remove the gooey bomb option from the item select screen, and in Link's PSA make down B held summon the gooey bomb, which is now the cucco.

I'm not sure how many articles Link has, if he has one that could be swapped, then you could put it over that as well.

Or you could make a really complex simulation of an item through swapping the model over his fairy taunt, making down-B held spawn his fairy model, which is placed in his animation so it looks like he is holding it, and when thrown you create moving hitboxes along the arc the model takes so it has hitboxes inside it, and if any of the hitboxes hit (check each hitbox with an IF statement) and if they hit, it spawns an explosive GFX and hitbox relative to the first hitbox which essentially means it would work. It couldn't be caught like an item because technically it's just a model with hitboxes inside it. You would need to make it so that it moves relative to the point of origin (when thrown) and not relative to Link.

You'd need:
groundhold, groundholdwalk, groundholdrun, groundholdstop, groundholdrunthrow, groundholdthrow, groundholdthrowback, groundholdthrowup, groundholdthrowdown, groundholdjump, airhold, airholdforward, airholdback, airholdjump, airholdjumpback, airholddrop, airholdthrow, airholdthrowback, airholdthrowup, airholdthrowdown

20 animations, 5 different hitbox arcs, one for z dropped, one for forward, one for back, one for up, and one for down.

It's definitely possible to do and there are multiple ways to go about it.

As cool as that sounds, I'm not animating that. Animate it for us and we might think about it.

 

[L/A/W]

@LE - Most of Link's aerials will be taking their Melee stats (in addition to some improved animations) so you won't have to be concerned about that.

@L/A/W - I'm... not quite sure what you're talking about. Your grammar and spelling is confusing me.

haha sorry i don't know the brawl terminology but let me try again
ok toon link has a tether so i'll use him
when he's hanging on the ledge he can do a move where he lets go, then hookshots the ledge, and then immediately re-grabs to regain invincibilty. You can only do this 3 times before the tether wouldn't re-grab

 

[Little England]

At LE: That's pretty much a typical sex kick

*sigh* Come on man, if you're going to try to correct somebody at least do some research first. It'll help you save face.

nice edit though lol

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I corrected myself before you posted.. See my post. >.> I didn't watch the video when I posted that.

 

[Little England]

I corrected myself before you posted.. See my post. >.> I didn't watch the video when I posted that.

That's not the point. If you're going to correct somebody, make sure you are correct yourself. Don't wait until you are proven wrong.

edit/ If it makes things any clearer, just put the convo on the flipside. What would you assume about me if I said "Its a normal sex kick" if you knew that it wasn't?

I'm also curious as to how smoothly this process is going along, how much is left to do, and if needed could I spend some time helping. I'd hate it if the whole project just folded and was released before it reached its potential.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Except I wasn't proven wrong by you. I was proven wrong by the video. You don't need to post something AFTER someone has already corrected themself.

 

[L/A/W]

That's not the point. If you're going to correct somebody, make sure you are correct yourself. Don't wait until you are proven wrong.

ah very cool LE i've never seen that
also a video for the tether regrab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCRQK-f478
56 seconds in after santi kills ness

 

[Magus420]

Link's n-air comes out and continues to hit for the whole animation, since they forgot the remove hitboxes command. Here's a comparison of Link and YLink's n-airs (Link=top Ylink=bottom):



And yes, I imagine it would most likely be remade to work like it used to.

 

[GP&B]

Haha, so Link's sexy Nair comes from a programming fault?

 

[Little England]

wow...he still doesn't get it

Thanks Magus

more editz/ It would be really cool if the late nair could have enough hitstun to combo into any of his other aerials, although that might be as much as a problem as it is useful lol

 

[humble]

I want to put forward the idea of Link having cucco chicken bombs as an addition to his arsenal of tools and play. Tap down B to create regular bombs, hold to pull out cucco bombs. We'd take the metaknight cucco vertex hack

and swap the model over Link's taunt fairy (of course in the taunt we'd disable the model so he doesn't taunt and create a random cucco xD)

You could make a really complex simulation of an item through swapping the model over his fairy taunt, making down-B held spawn his fairy model, which is placed in his animation so it looks like he is holding it, and when thrown you create moving hitboxes along the arc the model takes so it has hitboxes inside it, and if any of the hitboxes hit (check each hitbox with an IF statement) and if they hit, it spawns an explosive GFX and hitbox relative to the first hitbox which essentially means it would work. It couldn't be caught like an item because technically it's just a model with hitboxes inside it. You would need to make it so that it moves relative to the point of origin (when thrown) and not relative to Link.

In Brawlbox you'd need to create 19 animations,

groundhold, groundholdwalk, groundholdrun, groundholdstop, groundholdrunthrow, groundholdthrow, groundholdthrowup, groundholdthrowdown, groundholdjump, airhold, airholdforward, airholdback, airholdjump, airholdjumpback, airholddrop, airholdthrow, airholdthrowback, airholdthrowup, airholdthrowdown

In PSA you'd need 30 pages, initial spawn for the down-B being 1, 5 being the hitboxes you'd make for when it's thrown, one for z dropped, one for forward, one for back, one for up, and one for down. 19 for the animations, 5 for shielding, grabbing, or dodging when you first interrupt any cucco hold animation with one of these action first it terminates the model and routes to the special grab/shield/dodge, and you would need to add a statement to make sure that after the action is complete it leads back to hold and spawns the model once more. The reason you would need special grab/shield/dodge pages is because if you normally had at the end of shield it spawns the model, then whenever Link shielded he would spawn the model. So what you want is copy all the data for grab/shield/dodge into a second grab/shield/dodge, which has the spawn model at the end of it and terminates it at the start, and these specific grab/shield/dodge pages are only led to out of Cucco so that it allows it to act as a standard item in every way except being catchable, as it allows any action you could do with a standard item. By adding IASA frames at the start of the special roll/airdodges, which are interruptable by the throwing animations, you could glide toss it even. the animations which would need to be built so that out of standing you could walk, run, throw, throwup, throwdown, jump, shield, or grab. Etc. Etc.


It has two differentiating factors from his bombs.

While holding the cucco in the special animation that would be made for it, if link jumps or falls into the air while holding the cucco, he falls extremely slowly with increased control of his aerial movement, both in acceleration and speed, like jigglypuff essentially. Secondly, when he throws it, the cucco travels slower through the air and doesn't fall towards the ground as fast, so it flies farther then bombs. The cucco explodes on contact.

Essentially, this would aid him in his walling abilities by having a slower moving obstacle that an opponent must maneuver around, while allowing him to keep his old bombs- press down-B for bombs, hold for cucco. It's like samus' and her missles- press side-B for homing, smash for powerful.

Why not give Link more tools to mixup his game? Essentially the cucco would be worse for attacking, but before for walling- and due to it's slower and farther arc, it would allow Link to use it much in the same manner as Doc used his pills, approaching from behind it to frame trap the opponent.

 

[L/A/W]

could be epic or could be ********, I feel as if that's more of a brawl- idea but it's still an interesting one nonetheless

 

[humble]

could be epic or could be ********, I feel as if that's more of a brawl- idea but it's still an interesting one nonetheless

Brawl- would be giving him an army of cuccos that home in and attack opponents like in Zelda games.

In actual terms of gameplay, it does the same damage and knockback as standard bombs, the only differences are the cucco has a different arc then a bomb when thrown, the cucco gives you slow falling in the air while held, and the cucco can't be caught (however if it hits anything, including say a sword, laser, or arrow, then it explodes, so it is more fragile then a regular bomb, it just can't be caught) so it has ups and downs. It's slower moving and extremely fragile so it's not very good for just throwing at an opponent and hoping to work. It's more strategical- because it moves slower, you could say DJ up and z drop it, then retreat behind it as cover, and to get through it they have to attack it or go around, if they attack they have lag, if they go around you can read&punish or retreat further. Perhaps you glidetoss a cucco at someone's shield, then use the momentum to come in with a grab to punish if they shield or attack it, and delay your grab if they dodge- essentially, it's a strategic tool that allows you to force reads, but cannot be used haphazardly, because it sucks for that.

 

[Strong Badam]

what the ****

 

[Shadic]

Keep in mind Humble is not the voice of PMBR. Please.

 

[humble]

I know you guys love it. >;V

 

[JCaesar]

Make it stop, please...

/head asplodes

 

[leafgreen386]

cuckoo bs

...you're kidding, right? Right?

 

[Shell]

I think just letting him set his bombs down on normal surfaces in addition to platforms would be a lot more reasonable. I don't know who you'll find to do 19 animations for a single new experimental move... It certainly won't be me.

 

[GP&B]

I... just want bombs to essentially work like their 64 counterpart.

 

[Shadic]

Bombs and boomerang should be the 64 counterpart.

 

[GP&B]

Definitely, I think that would be the ultimate solution to Link's approach problems or at the very least would help his approach game tremendously.

 

[omgwtfToph]

You guys really think retired Melee players will be lured back by the prospect of having their favorite characters lose to Fox and Falco again? I don't.

uh

yes

everyone loves fox and falco lol

btw if you guys can make link feel as ****** to play as he is in ssb64 then omg

 

[Shadic]

Link64. With a decent bow. And a decent recovery.

 

[L/A/W]

Link64. With a decent bow. And a decent recovery.

this would be so ****
also with melee moonwalk
and melee "SKKKRRRRAAAAAAA!!!!!!"(translation for those who don't understand:spin attack)

 

[matt4300]

Link64. With a decent bow. And a decent recovery.

Sorry shadic but HELL no.... Good maylay link ftw. (love the cutting wind boxes)

The coolest Ideas thus far for his projectiles were-

Bomb- lay on any surface+ no more 2 bomb limit.

Arrows- brawl+ (with much less kb) but able to aim up like pit. No range limit.

Rang- cutting hixboxes + wind.


For some reason when I hit with rang point blank in the most current build they fly much too far for combos like in melee. If this is sopposed to be 64-ish ... Eww

If when you press down-B after pulling out a bomb he just laid it on the ground, and in the air it explodes in his hand then you guys wouldn't have to worry about all these weird paths to getting working bomb jumping. You already have them hurting him...

 

[Deleted member]

Give Tink and Link's QD arrows no end lag instead of reduced?

Won't make them all star material, but can certainly help.

 

[shanus]

Build bugs and problems are meant to be posted on smashmods.com private PMBR forum matt4300, also remember everything is WIP with each build...

 

[matt4300]

Build bugs and problems are meant to be posted on smashmods.com private PMBR forum matt4300, also remember everything is WIP with each build...

Got ya... I thought that rang power was intentional.

 

[Sterowent]

humble, this idea of yours is interesting, but an argument must be made to include it, not just for the sake of use but for the sake of moveset cohesiveness. link uses everything he has in regular intervals in his games, or at least that's the intention. the cucco is a one-trick pony that they have him occasionally work with, like an associate or a coworker in an adjacent department. include the idea that it's a living thing, and you've already lost the case of being included with the likes of inanimate tools link and link players are accustomed to.

maybe it's more fitting for Tlink? even then, players would rather have a leaf to float with, and the placement of it on his downB would be awkward. if they did include it, they'd have a nice grounded version though, hah. push projectiles and nearby players away with windboxes, much like DL64, but with less range! what a trip.


i'm really glad to hear link is being worked on right now. b+ did some great work, but perhaps they didn't go far enough? with the possibly impossible wall grapples, it'll be a tough sell making him feel like melee and, above that, be viable. i'd like to reiterate my question of if he's going to have some form of that AGT + upB glitch. do you guys value that sort of thing, an accidental but intelligent glitch, or is it a shutout?

 

[I R MarF]

It seems to me that just speeding up Link's mobility and some of his attacks (particularly his tilits and aerials) would be the best fix for him.

Controversial/Possibly Lame Idea:

Have you ever considered giving Link a Mario/C. Falcon like Uair (Flip kick)? Or would that not fit him very well? I'm not sure because I'm not a Link main, but it seems to me that he would benefit from a faster uair that sets up for combos.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Link's n-air comes out and continues to hit for the whole animation, since they forgot the remove hitboxes command. Here's a comparison of Link and YLink's n-airs (Link=top Ylink=bottom):



And yes, I imagine it would most likely be remade to work like it used to.

...Several of the best things in melee were either glitches or unintentional loopholes. Or something or the sort...Sakuraiiiiiii

And the cuckoo idea? Too much work for a left-field idea none of the devs so far seem to be interested in.

EDIT: At I R Marf: I agree with you in the sense that Link's up air is a horrible concept. It has **** mobility, okay range vertically, mediocre to bad range horizontally, and isn't even super powerful like it should be as it is designed as a high-risk high-reward move. the only thing useful is hitting someone into the hair, SH uairing and hit them, and l-cancel on the ground.

tl; dr for this part: Link's up air is a horrible design concept, no matter how long it's been in the smash series

 

[Shadic]

Uair is actually decent in Melee, iirc. Has more priority than Dair does, which is weird.

 

[[TSON]]

........................Symphonic.

All aerials have the same mobility.

 

[GP&B]

Shadic is correct. Uair is a pretty good juggling move in Melee.

 

[humble]

And the cuckoo idea? Too much work for a left-field idea none of the devs so far seem to be interested in.

Actually I'd be the one doing it, the work is not the problem; I'd be willing to do it if it's supported by others. The devs all love the cucco, they just can't admit it to themselves; their scared to acknowledge just how much they long for cuccos in P:M.

Will Link's zair be brawl or melee?

 

[Strong Badam]

It seems to me that just speeding up Link's mobility and some of his attacks (particularly his tilits and aerials) would be the best fix for him.

Controversial/Possibly Lame Idea:

Have you ever considered giving Link a Mario/C. Falcon like Uair (Flip kick)? Or would that not fit him very well? I'm not sure because I'm not a Link main, but it seems to me that he would benefit from a faster uair that sets up for combos.

mario's uair only sets up for combos on the west coast lmao

 

[Sterowent]

brawl with 10 frames landing lag. or, at least, at last notice

 

[Sneak8288]

I wish link and tl felt like they kept more momentum in the air. It feels like when I nair I completely loose momentum. I guess I want it to feel more fluid almost like spacies nairs are or at least feel that way for toon link. Also links usmash should still have no lag at the end of it and boost the aerial mobility after his up-b.