Project M Social Thread

[GP&B]

I'll cover the Melee songs that weren't in Brawl (as in, I'm making a list) so give me a minute.

Opening
Great Bay
Yoshi's Story
Mushroom Kingdom
Mushroom Kingdom (Finale)
Mushroom Kingdom II
Mushroom Kingdom II (Finale)
Icicle Mountain
Kongo Jungle N64
Yoshi's Island N64
Dream Land N64
Saria's Theme
Fire Emblem
Mach Rider
Mother 2
Dr. Mario
Metal Battle
How to Play (almost the same as Brawl's, just not present as a .brstm)
Targets!
Multi-Man Melee 2
All-Star Intro
Starman
Ending
Planet Corneria (Live Orchestra)
Jungle Garden (Live Orchestra)
Great Bay Labratory (Live Orchestra)
Dr. Mario (Live Orchestra)
Origial Medley (Live Orchestra)
Fountain of Dreams (Live Orchestra)
Pokemon Medley (Live Orchestra)
Opening (Live Orchestra)
Planet Venom (Live Orchestra)
Yoshi's Story (Live Orchestra)
Depths of Brinstar (Live Orchestra)
The Smash Brothers Great Medley (Live Orchestra)

I think I got most of them that weren't in Brawl.

 

[hotdogturtle]

But some of those songs are in Brawl o_O

 

[I R MarF]

I also hope that in addition to buffs for mid tiers and lower that counters will remain. I think it is important for good characters having one or two opponents that give him/her a disadvantage.

For instance, Marth has a bad matchup against Shiek, the spacies seem to have a bad matchup against Jiggs, Jiggs has a bad matchup against... (Is is pikachu?) and so on.

I think its important that everyone is viable (each character should have a range between a 45:55 to 55:45 for their matchup average, if possible) But they should also include both a highly advantageous matchup and highly disadvantageous matchup.

Of course, it would be impossible to predict the meta game that could spawn from buffed melee chars and meleefied brawl chars but if keeping counters is possible that would be nice.

 

[Deleted member]

I also hope that in addition to buffs for mid tiers and lower that counters will remain. I think it is important for good characters having one or two opponents that give him/her a disadvantage.

For instance, Marth has a bad matchup against Shiek, the spacies seem to have a bad matchup against Jiggs, Jiggs has a bad matchup against... (Is is pikachu?) and so on.

I think its important that everyone is viable (each character should have a range between a 45:55 to 55:45 their matchup average, if possible) But they should also include both a advantageous matchup and disadvantageous matchup.

Of course, it would be impossible to predict the meta game that could spawn from buffed melee chars and meleefied brawl chars but if keeping counters is possible that would be nice.

With 30+ balanced characters, I think every character will have at least 5-10 counters.

 

[GP&B]

I believe SHeLL or some dev said that they'd improve any match-up that was 30:70 or worse. Basically, no hard or largely disadvantageous counters. 35:65 to even is probably going to be the range on all match-ups and counterpicks with characters will still exist.

 

[Archangel]

A few people: You don't know the technical term we do

*Hand-clap*

Well, sometimes it's just understanding the weaknesses that really hold them back unlike other weaknesses that otherwise leave some characters balanced like Fox and Falco being light-weight fast fallers. For example, Link's main issue is the lack of speed in the execution of his moves. He has all the tools, his recovery is fine, and he's got ****ing Nair. It's just that most of his moveset can't really keep up and it's a huge problem.

Oh, and then there's Sheik who most of the cast won't have to deal with when it comes to awful CG crap.

My question is how good is Sheik going to be with no CG's, Fair Nerfed to hell(as far as i know its still nerfed), And all her previous good match-ups will be Buffed up like 80s Schwarzenegger.

 

[Revven]

lolwut it's not nerfed it's exactly like Melee (the Fair)

 

[GP&B]

What Falco400 said. Phil is still going to wonder "how can she slap?"

Spoiler

Feel free to correct me if that wasn't the commentator who said that. I'm going to hurt myself if I got that wrong.

 

[Rhubarbo]

For a person who doesn't know all the subtleties of the Melee to Brawl differences, what changed in the camera, exactly? What's the difference between the two? Examples, if possible, would be nice.

Also: I converted, for my own personal collection, all the Melee victory themes to Brawl's music format. They sound much better in my opinion. I also muted the little loop that plays after the victory theme ends, which makes it sound much more like Melee. Would this interest the Project: M cause? I just like to help.

I think there's a line this project can't cross. What Project M should strive for is bringing in Melee's game play, but keeping everything else Brawl related intact. No porting in old character models, no music replacement. These things should be optional mods.

 

[Archangel]

lolwut it's not nerfed it's exactly like Melee (the Fair)

Alright good. What about CG's? Are you guys going to leave CG's out of the game? I hate to say it but it was a big part of Melee for alot of characters. Especially Mine vs Spacies....

 

[GP&B]

I think there's a line this project can't cross. What Project M should strive for is bringing in Melee's game play, but keeping everything else Brawl related intact. No porting in old character models, no music replacement. These things should be optional mods.

Obviously. He's interested in doing it just for making them available.

Alright good. What about CG's? Are you guys going to leave CG's out of the game? I hate to say it but it was a big part of Melee for alot of characters. Especially Mine vs Spacies....

I'm assuming Sheik's CGs just won't be as gay as they were with DThrow crap at least. I'm pretty sure they're making her/his grabs still almost always allow for a setup and CG to a reasonable extent. Just nothing like the god awful stuff she could pull on a lot of characters in Melee.

 

[Revven]

Alright good. What about CG's? Are you guys going to leave CG's out of the game? I hate to say it but it was a big part of Melee for alot of characters. Especially Mine vs Spacies....

It's been said before already, Sheik has her NTSC Dthrow but due to DI potency CGs don't work but the other options she had out of it do.

 

[Deleted member]

My question is how good is Sheik going to be with no CG's, Fair Nerfed to hell(as far as i know its still nerfed), And all her previous good match-ups will be Buffed up like 80s Schwarzenegger.

It's Melee Sheik....

Her match ups are fine because she's so **** broken.

Edit. Ninja'd.

 

[Archangel]

I don't really care about Sheik. As a Marth player I really don't mind her being nerfed. However What about other CG's. Will Mew2King be able to do the Aaayee! CG's? From what i saw Fox can't even CG himself.

 

[genkaku]

So much time and so little to do. Wait a minute. Strike that, reverse it.
haha
In any case, thanks once more for the progress.

By the way, is there a way to make certain that the new stages are 100% accurate? I dunno about you, but if the distances in Yoshi's Story or Dreamland64 are any different it's going to screw my Falco up big time.

 

[Magus420]

Sheik can't really CG because the angle is 70, which is neither NTSC (80) or PAL (60). It's not DI potency.

 

[Archangel]

Sheik can't really CG because the angle is 70, which is neither NTSC (80) or PAL (60). It's not DI potency.

Why do you know so much about...everything related to this game. You M2K's brother?

 

[Wavebuster]

Why do you know so much about...everything related to this game. You M2K's brother?

I don't really want to downplay Magus's knowledge of Melee, but it's kinda hard to not know stuff about the game when it's been played extensively for almost 10 years. Some people just process and retain information better than others.

Also, in Melee most, if not all uthrows/dthrows cause tumble regardless of KB, and are thus always techable. It should be considered.

PPS - Calling someone closely related to M2K could be as very well insulting as it could be complimentary <.>

 

[Sora-kun]

I'll cover the Melee songs that weren't in Brawl (as in, I'm making a list) so give me a minute.


Saria's Theme

that one broke my heart ):

 

[Timelord]

I think there's a line this project can't cross. What Project M should strive for is bringing in Melee's game play, but keeping everything else Brawl related intact. No porting in old character models, no music replacement. These things should be optional mods.

How in the world would music replacement be made NOT optional? It's easy to just remove them if they're in there, or just replace it with the custom music we already have, which is what I'll probably do. (Though I'll probably pick and choose some of the melee/64 music to use.)

 

[Dantarion]

I can imagine if we get a nice pack of cosmetics, we can have that as a seperate pack, or as a option in the installer.

Oops, did I say installer? I might be working on one of those. Or maybe I'm not.

 

[FrozenHobo]

your skills at "dropping subtle hints" may need work...

 

[Wind Owl]

Why do you know so much about...everything related to this game. You M2K's brother?

You don't know who Magus is?

 

[Sora-kun]

You don't know who Magus is?

-raises hand- nope o.o who? ._.
smash deity?

 

[Stratocaster]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge Magus knows everything

 

[stingers]

your skills at "dropping subtle hints" may need work...

lol, thisx1000

 

[Sterowent]

it IS common knowledge.


man, with all these breakthroughs lately, i'm itching to see all this contribution culminate into a stream of high caliber once more.

 

[Archangel]

You don't know who Magus is?

I thought it was pretty common knowledge Magus knows everything

I am pretty sure he's the Same Magnus that played Ganon. He did this Nasty Chaingrab on a Falco a little while back and I thought to myself he must be another mew2king type player. I didn't know he was another Frame perfect half man half computer though....Cool. I like him even more now

 

[Stratocaster]

For those who don't know who Magus is...
educate yourself
Magus data lists are in depth to say the least
Chaingrabbing sounds simple until Magus explains it
more stuff?
luigi...
correcting misconceptions
Showing up and letting everyone know whats up
Edit: I did all of that when a MUCH better way would have been to point you to The Official Everything Thread, scroll halfway down the first post and theres a loong list of Magus stuff
When your scrolling on a page and see purple letters, stop and read them

but of course this thread isnt about Magus... so yay Project M finish soon! can't wait to see the old characters balanced and the newcomers reworked for the melee feel

 

[Wavebuster]

I thought to myself he must be another mew2king type player.

Those be fighting words there, bub.

 

[Sora-kun]

I thought to myself he must be another mew2king type player.

lmao m2k
don't insult poor magus liek that D:

For those who don't know who Magus is...
educate yourself
Magus data lists are in depth to say the least
Chaingrabbing sounds simple until Magus explains it
more stuff?
luigi...
correcting misconceptions
Showing up and letting everyone know whats up
Edit: I did all of that when a MUCH better way would have been to point you to The Official Everything Thread, scroll halfway down the first post and theres a loong list of Magus stuff
When your scrolling on a page and see purple letters, stop and read them

but of course this thread isnt about Magus... so yay Project M finish soon! can't wait to see the old characters balanced and the newcomers reworked for the melee feel

i omgwtf'd.. @_@

 

[Archangel]

I only meant M2K type as in Frame perfectness and all that. I don't know a single frame for any move on the game. I just have things timed based on what I see. I imagine for some reason I would stop getting laid if I did start memorizing those things....No thanks. This project has already cost me once before

 

[L/A/W]

I believe the devs are definitely aiming for top tier. The general interest seems to prefer no nerfs to top tier characters at all with very few exceptions (Sheik's throws come to mind). I could only imagine weakening Fox's USmash to kill at 120-130% maybe.

please don't do this to fox, you already are taking out his wall infinite

 

[Lanstar]

I don't believe there are plans to nerf fox's UpSmash and if there were it wouldn't be that ridiculous of a nerf.

that's worse than pal

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't believe there are plans to nerf fox's UpSmash and if there were it wouldn't be that ridiculous of a nerf.

that's worse than pal

You are so right. PAL is so horrible despite balancing the game better -_-

 

[Archangel]

You are so right. PAL is so horrible despite balancing the game better -_-

How is it balanced better though? They made minor changed in like 01 lol. They nerfed the wrong characters mostly. Aside from sheiks Dthrow everything else is kind dumb/pointless. All that happens is Do to a few nerfs Peach Joins the ranks of Top tier. That is litterally all that it changes. If anything characters like Puff, Peach, and Falco are even better....the bottom/low tiers are still outrageously terrible.

Still the PAL Nerf looks like mercy compared to that other suggestion. Fox's killing moves being moved up to 120% and losing his infinites basically would put fox in Mid tier or lower lol. He's already a whipping boy for combo vids anyway.

 

[L/A/W]

How is it balanced better though? They made minor changed in like 01 lol. They nerfed the wrong characters mostly. Aside from sheiks Dthrow everything else is kind dumb/pointless. All that happens is Do to a few nerfs Peach Joins the ranks of Top tier. That is litterally all that it changes. If anything characters like Puff, Peach, and Falco are even better....the bottom/low tiers are still outrageously terrible.

Still the PAL Nerf looks like mercy compared to that other suggestion. Fox's killing moves being moved up to 120% and losing his infinites basically would put fox in Mid tier or lower lol. He's already a whipping boy for combo vids anyway.

falcos dair is worse iirc

 

[Galt]

I suspect, if you leave Fox and Falco the way they are currently, no new character, and no buffed Melee character, will have any more realistic a chance of beating them with any frequency. If you really want to get the Melee crowd into a Brawl-based project, I'd say a good way to do that is to make the game feel similar, but shake up the tiers. You can balance Fox easily by powering down his moves. Falco is a little tougher, but still doable. I'd say Marth is probably the only character who needs absolutely no changes, if any such exists. Balance around Marth or Falcon or Peach, not around characters who are very nearly broken.

Also, why is it logical to nerf Sheik but not Fox? Yes, Sheik could CG half the cast. But not the half which mattered at all. If Sheik were at all dominant, I'd be all for it. But personally, I'd just give Sheik a longer dashdance (can you guys do that?), power down her f-air, and maybe power up the d-smash just slightly. She'll still be able to edgeguard like a demon even with a nerfed f-air.

 

[L/A/W]

If you really want to get the Melee crowd into a Brawl-based project, I'd say a good way to do that is to make the game feel similar, but shake up the tiers.

i think this is a very bad idea lol

 

[stingers]

yeah, leave the top tiers the same and lets just see where the brawl characters fall...