Project M Social Thread

[Sterowent]

for characters that do have good run speeds, bairs are now more viable as approaches. this could certainly change things, but i can't recall a bair that's more viable as an approach tool than nairs for any high or top tier characters. even still, it'd be a balance issue, and the RAR mostly forces players to use a SH bair in spacing situations, since all other aerials with back to opponents are generally inferior. maybe special moves mixed in for flavor/fakeouts?

the bigger issue to many is the ability to simply RAR shorthop to the ledge, but that's another issue with techskill and assuming that backwards ledge grabs would be removed.

 

[Strong Badam]

rar shorthop? i hope you mean rar wd. lol.

off the top of my head, i'd rather approach with bair than nair as Falcon. same with sheik.

 

[TL?]

Here we go with the RAR arguments again.

 

[L/A/W]

We're not "putting in" RAR. It's just there. We'd need to make a code to remove it.
Jiggs runs slower than she moves in the air. RAR Bair doesn't help her approach at all.

yeah sorry i forget were using brawl here haha
yeah i know it's not a good approach she has the slowest run in the game but it's just more bair gayness from all characters

 

[Plum]

I'm the only one in the entirety of the Back Room that wants reverse ledge grabbing to be completely removed outside of the Up-B's that could in Melee, or ones that are similar to those that could in Melee.

*Ahem*

I agree that if possible reverse ledgegrabs should be gone. It waters down the ledge game. Granted I am not an absolute Melee purist when it comes to the ledge (**** ledge occupacy in Melee. It's one thing to encourage gimps. It's another to make it practically mindless against a majority of the cast. I support the current system because you have to time your hogs more effectively or actively pursue the gimp.) but I don't like reverse grabbing.

I just don't bother to ever bring it up because of what I understand to be a huge burden on the coders to remove it completely. They have enough on their plates right now that they don't need me *****ing about reverse grabs.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

the bigger issue to many is the ability to simply RAR shorthop to the ledge, but that's another issue with techskill and assuming that backwards ledge grabs would be removed.

Characters had no problem grabbing onto a ledge in Melee : P dont worry.
As a Melee player myself I think the chances are slim that RAR edgehog would be the best option you can wavedash to it if you're short on time, or wait and turn around and full hop back onto it if you got plenty of time.
RAR seems like a good idea to me
but please tell me reverse edge grabbing won't be in ;-;

huge burden on the coders to remove it completely.

well.. maybe tehy dont have to remove or edit the grab range but just block the ability to. if that made any sence..
but yeah.. maybe not now but somewhere along the line it should be taken out

 

[L/A/W]

Characters had no problem grabbing onto a ledge in Melee : P dont worry.
As a Melee player myself I think the chances are slim that RAR edgehog would be the best option you can wavedash to it if you're short on time, or wait and turn around and full hop back onto it if you got plenty of time.
RAR seems like a good idea to me
but please tell me reverse edge grabbing won't be in ;-;

rar would allow you to change direction out of a run and then wd to the ledge

 

[Sora-kun]

Sora-Kun: Bionic Sonic was referring to Glöwworm.

DK's recovery is good though...

mmkayz i just don't want the project M people to think i'm dissing them and be all like "OK YEW ALL GET THE ALPHA! EXCEPT YOU SORA YOU SUK"

i'd go emo ._.

 

[Shell]

*Ahem*

I just don't bother to ever bring it up because of what I understand to be a huge burden on the coders to remove it completely. They have enough on their plates right now that they don't need me *****ing about reverse grabs.

Pretty much this. It's not that a lot of PMBRers wouldn't be perfectly fine with removing backwards grabbing, it's that we've done what we can easily do right now and we have higher priorities.

Also, RAR is awesome. Even Strong Bad likes it and that should tell you something, since he's one of most conservative PMBR members. I don't think we've had a single 'pro' play the game and complain about it that I know of.

 

[cubaisdeath]

RAR wavedash to the edge only saves fractions of seconds over running towards the edge, wavedashing, then pivoting, and wavedashing to the edge. the same thing happens either way, and both methods are very quick

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

With roll up hogging gone, I see no problem with making it easier to get to the ledge, since there are a few recoveries that are almost impossible to edgehog if used properly.

Though it's not like my opinion has a lot of weight either.

 

[humble]

I like RAR, though if possible I definitely support removing reverse ledge grabbing.

 

[Archangel]

Sorry guys

I know i'm suppose to be doing a trailer but I've ran into wall after wall. I got pretty much what I need but I just haven't done it yet because I was busy with this game and Then this girl I've been talking too...etc..etc...excuse...excuse...johns...johns.

All in all I'll see if I can put up a teaser or something on the ProjectMelee Channel but It'll be in private at first and only released if the Overseers of this say so....yeah look for that in the next day or 2.

 

[Strong Badam]

yo man, don't let project m l-cancel you (l-cancel = laid cancel). go after that chick.

RAR wavedash to the edge only saves fractions of seconds over running towards the edge, wavedashing, then pivoting, and wavedashing to the edge. the same thing happens either way, and both methods are very quick

lemme see lolz
running -> turnaround wd with fox = 14 frames spend wding
running -> wd -> turn around wd = at least 29 frames.

rar does make things like shine turnaround wavedash hogging, sheik using needles to turnaround in the air, marth bair hogging, etc. obsolete, but it overall adds more depth.

 

[Sneak8288]

yo man, don't let project m l-cancel you (l-cancel = laid cancel). go after that chick.

lemme see lolz
running -> turnaround wd with fox = 14 frames spend wding
running -> wd -> turn around wd = at least 29 frames.

rar does make things like shine turnaround wavedash hogging, sheik using needles to turnaround in the air, marth bair hogging, etc. obsolete, but it overall adds more depth.

Yea but like I've said plenty of times before, when you think about it RAR WD is still more or less situational. You still would have to dash from a far enough distance to actually turn. Either way i think most people would SD trying to do it anyway. Scrubs lol

 

[Strong Badam]

wha........ what? rar wd is no less situational than pivot wd from near the ledge.

 

[Wind Owl]

No, because you can pivot WD from a dash.

 

[Team Giza]

*wakes up* Oh snap. I still have a USB gecko I never sent out to anyone.

 

[humble]

No, because you can pivot WD from a dash.

Isn't that pretty much a RAR? You dash, then turn and jump? Of course you WD the jump so you don't actually jump, but you end up backwards anyway.

 

[Strong Badam]

You have to pivot, though. As in, dash dance and jump on the first frame of the second dash.

 

[humble]

You have to pivot, though. As in, dash dance and jump on the first frame of the second dash.

Both of the animations are cancelled anyway, WD cancels the momentum from both, so there is no real reason to pick one over the other.

 

[Strong Badam]

except pivoting is faster, because you wd on the first frame possible.

edit: electric hitlag meleefied! let's go!

 

[humble]

What do you mean? Removing the hitlag?

 

[Strong Badam]

In Melee, electric attacks have 1.5x hitlag on hit for the person being hit but 1x for the attacker, so on hit they gain a few extra frames of advantage from it than normal, and it also doesn't change the timing to move after hitting them compared to a shield. On block it's 1x for both.

In Brawl it's 1.5x on hit for both players and 1x on block. Since it also affects the attacker it can seem laggy to them on hit, and it changes when they can move out of it.

Fix'd to be Melee-like nao.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

wowow that's tight.

so this makes falcon's knee even betteR?

 

[Strong Badam]

Of course. Now you can Knee -> Knee -> Knee moar.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I always wondered why Pikachu/Pichu's Dair seemed significantly more useful in Melee than brawl. 'Guess moving about twice as soon as the enemy helps a lot XD

 

[shanus]

I'm the only one in the entirety of the Back Room that wants reverse ledge grabbing to be completely removed outside of the Up-B's that could in Melee, or ones that are similar to those that could in Melee. I'm not the average Project M developer, that's for sure.

Wrong, or else I wouldnt have made a code for it. However, because your misinformed I wish to clarify.

Ledge grabs are modified by a routine 21C20 in fighter.pac which is run every frame during most air actions, fall, aerials, jumps even, etc. Within it, it resets the ledge occupancy rules. However, when you try and change it, it results in being able to even grab the edge during an aerial.... I have some new ideas on how to fix it that I thought of yesterday, but thats why my code only works for a few frames.

 

[[TSON]]

lol, this is the average project m developer, folks

Um.

Go away.

Don't come back.

Thanks bro.

 

[Wind Owl]

In Melee, electric attacks have 1.5x hitlag on hit for the person being hit but 1x for the attacker, so on hit they gain a few extra frames of advantage from it than normal, and it also doesn't change the timing to move after hitting them compared to a shield. On block it's 1x for both.

In Brawl it's 1.5x on hit for both players and 1x on block. Since it also affects the attacker it can seem laggy to them on hit, and it changes when they can move out of it.

Fix'd to be Melee-like nao.

Wow, way to quote Magus without giving him credit.

 

[Strong Badam]

shanus: whaaaat, back in January people were still disagreeing with me about it. have people changed their minds?
windowl: quote tags are so annoying to type on an iPod... happy now?

 

[JCaesar]

windowl is silly because he doesn't check his facts before saying something is whack

I'm the only one in the entirety of the Back Room that wants reverse ledge grabbing to be completely removed outside of the Up-B's that could in Melee, or ones that are similar to those that could in Melee.

Sorry, had to be done

I got a chance to test P:M extensively tonight. P:M Wolf is hands down the most fun i've had playing a character in a fighting game. Period. I couldn't be happier with this character.

Yeah I think Wolf was really well Meleefied (and by *Guy* no less). I hope we can do as well with the other Brawl characters.

*Ahem*

I agree that if possible reverse ledgegrabs should be gone. It waters down the ledge game. Granted I am not an absolute Melee purist when it comes to the ledge (**** ledge occupacy in Melee. It's one thing to encourage gimps. It's another to make it practically mindless against a majority of the cast. I support the current system because you have to time your hogs more effectively or actively pursue the gimp.) but I don't like reverse grabbing.

I just don't bother to ever bring it up because of what I understand to be a huge burden on the coders to remove it completely. They have enough on their plates right now that they don't need me *****ing about reverse grabs.

^ 100%

I know i'm suppose to be doing a trailer but I've ran into wall after wall. I got pretty much what I need but I just haven't done it yet because I was busy with this game and Then this girl I've been talking too...etc..etc...excuse...excuse...johns...johns.

All in all I'll see if I can put up a teaser or something on the ProjectMelee Channel but It'll be in private at first and only released if the Overseers of this say so....yeah look for that in the next day or 2.

There's no rush man, take your time.

 

[shanus]

I'll see if my new method works as I had been puzzled for a while at how to best target 21C20, but then I remembered our little recent discovery of how to monitor the current action and all was well with the world

 

[Plairnkk]

shanus is crazy

are u gonna be at apex?

 

[stingers]

Um.

Go away.

Don't come back.

Thanks bro.

uh yeah, I'll pass, "bro".

 

[shanus]

shanus is crazy

are u gonna be at apex?

probably not, although a client meeting popped up i think that week in new york or NJ so if i do get to go there i might be able to stay longer for at least part of apex

 

[Iamthemovie]

Let me ask this one thing
Can you moonwalk to RAR in P:M? I've always seen Captain Falcon do a moonwalk to bair in Melee, I'd like to see him do a moonwalk to knee this time.

EDIT: Wait a second, nevermind, it's probably better to just run off the edge and then knee...

 

[shanus]

RAR works out of the running animation, not the initial dash (initial dash goes into action 7, whereas running turn goes into action 8

Moonwalks occur only in initial dash and into wait, not initial dash into run

 

[Kink-Link5]

Can you at least still do the Charleston?

 

[humble]

Are DACUS's being kept?

Has anything been done to make Planking less effective?

Will Ness get his Yo-Yo's that hang over the edge back?