GunBlaze
Smash Lord
This is SD: Remix: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=324620
Insanely long range wants to have a talk with you.
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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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This is SD: Remix: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=324620
Insanely long range wants to have a talk with you.
Oracle
Smash Master
Speaking of garbage recoveries, why can't lucas grab the ledge backwards from an up b? His recovery already isn't that great from longer distances.
Revven
FrankerZ
Like everybody else, he can grab when he is transitioning to special fall but not during special fall. It's a global change.
Oracle
Smash Master
really? I've tried a lot and never gotten the reverse grab to work
just tested it. Even if you get the up b to end as hes touching the ledge, if hes backwards he'll just fall
just tested it. Even if you get the up b to end as hes touching the ledge, if hes backwards he'll just fall
cannedbread
Smash Lord
it might be the sweetspot range that's getting you. try doing it with ike.
I understand the need to play it first, however, Brawl tether mechanics and P:M are still nearly the same. The only real difference is you can tether the ledge when someone is occupying it.
That means the other inherant weaknesses of a tether recovery still remain. Like when you are hanging from the edge you are as free as Kage vs Vwins. Or the fact you are completely denied invincibily, where the opponent can grab the ledge and get it.
Just watch the recording of the VGbootcamp stream last night. Anytime Jcaesar fough Ivy, when ivy tethered the ledge, Jcaes, would simply drop from the ledge and either bair or dair Ivy while he was dangling from the ledge. You are completely defenseless in that situation.
Characters like Link and Samus have an option to defend against that, which is let go of the ledge and still Up-B. Ivy doesn't even have that option. His option is pray they whiff.
So the point being is that Ivy's recovery is inherantly bad(WHICH IS FINE, everyone doesn't need Jigglypuff like recovery) but it doesn't need to be handicapped when compared to other tethers in the game. That handicap being unable to airdodge->tether. That airdodge can be the difference between living and dying. You can dodge a would be hit and grab the ledge if your Samus/|Link/Tlink/Lucas. Where Ivy would be hit and sent to the blastzone, or die because he airdodges and falls to oblivion.
Revven
FrankerZ
To be fair, Xebenkeck, Aposl or whoever was using Ivy almost never took advantage of Ivy's insanely fast reel in speed. She's not that easy to edgeguard as JCz did to her on stream. It was lack of character familiarity that lead to those edgeguards occurring for Ivy, she can reel in the minute that tether touches that ledge.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
I'm going to disagree with that and say that Ivysaur's recovery is much, much better than you think it is. I highly recommend saving your thoughts until you've actually had a chance to try Ivysaur in Project M rather than basing your opinions through brawl experience.
-But whatever, I'm just a playtester who's been playing against a great Ivysaur player 1-2 times every week ever since I got into the br.
My argument isn't that Ivysaurs recovery is bad. My arguement is that his tether is handicapped compared to the others in the game simply due to the fact it is mapped on Up-B as oppose to Z(in the air). One of those handicaps being unable to airdodge - > Tether. Where I believe that is needless.
Oracle
Smash Master
I understand how it works, i do it with other characters all the time. I'm saying i'm pretty sure its actually impossible with lucas (that or i'm just bad). Go see for yourself but i tried like 10 different places to end the up b and none of them worked
Stevo
Smash Champion
If your complaint is that someone can sit on the ledge and jump back air when Ivysaur reels in.... then what is an airdodge before the tether going to do to help that anyway?
Ivy has down-air to manoeuvre around before the tether too, which can kind of be used in place of an air dodge before the tether.
Sixth-Sense
Smash Ace
This has already been asked various times, but no answer, so i'll take a stab at it.
Is the computer AI gonna be better than 2.1, because i could potentionally see myself practicing against a good falco that might do mix-up's here and there. Of course this is computer AI and not a real human being, so i can't ask for that, but will it be better/smarter etc.? I've actually thought of having different levels of the computer doing stuff, like saying, level 1-5 for all characters is gonna be basic things we need to practice like
lvl1: nothing but taking hits and techrolling, rolling, different DI when they get hit, being (now) able to ledge-tech, etc.
lvl2: them playing campy/run-away, so you learn how to deal with having to chase or approach in a non-hit-me way, or better put, efficiently approaching them with your character.
lvl3: Annoying things they do, let's say for falco, he spams lasers like crazy, fox always nairplaning everywhere and shineing at once wether it be shield or non-shield, Marth doing the wall of pain (i think that's what it's called) with his fair, Falcon nairing like crazy, etc.
lvl4: your turn to DI, characters spam certain combos or just attacks like Peach continiously d-smashing, fox up-smash into another or up-air, falco shineing and dair you like crazy, maybe a shine-bair too, etc.
lvl5: This goes with the lvl4 thing, but it's just CG and teching and that stuff, like let's say your fox and your playing against a lvl5 marth, he will continiously CG and/or techchase you, your falco, Falcon u-throws you, and he chases you, same goes for shiek, etc. This could be kinda exclusive to FF's but i don't know.
And i guess the other levels would simply be real fights
At least tell me this is possible, very time-consuming and difficult but possible, oh and what do you think of the suggestion?
Is the computer AI gonna be better than 2.1, because i could potentionally see myself practicing against a good falco that might do mix-up's here and there. Of course this is computer AI and not a real human being, so i can't ask for that, but will it be better/smarter etc.? I've actually thought of having different levels of the computer doing stuff, like saying, level 1-5 for all characters is gonna be basic things we need to practice like
lvl1: nothing but taking hits and techrolling, rolling, different DI when they get hit, being (now) able to ledge-tech, etc.
lvl2: them playing campy/run-away, so you learn how to deal with having to chase or approach in a non-hit-me way, or better put, efficiently approaching them with your character.
lvl3: Annoying things they do, let's say for falco, he spams lasers like crazy, fox always nairplaning everywhere and shineing at once wether it be shield or non-shield, Marth doing the wall of pain (i think that's what it's called) with his fair, Falcon nairing like crazy, etc.
lvl4: your turn to DI, characters spam certain combos or just attacks like Peach continiously d-smashing, fox up-smash into another or up-air, falco shineing and dair you like crazy, maybe a shine-bair too, etc.
lvl5: This goes with the lvl4 thing, but it's just CG and teching and that stuff, like let's say your fox and your playing against a lvl5 marth, he will continiously CG and/or techchase you, your falco, Falcon u-throws you, and he chases you, same goes for shiek, etc. This could be kinda exclusive to FF's but i don't know.
And i guess the other levels would simply be real fights
At least tell me this is possible, very time-consuming and difficult but possible, oh and what do you think of the suggestion?
Life
Smash Hero
I thought there was only one AI and that the levels applied some sort of function that delayed its tactics/decision making. I could be wrong.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Your suggestion sounds cool, Sixth-Sense, but you have to realize that it's probably low on the priority list, as character development is where a majority of the development team is spending their efforts. We also only have a couple AI coders, so something like that might take awhile.
Also, no confirmation on better AI for 2.5 just yet. Just stay tuned for updates
Also, no confirmation on better AI for 2.5 just yet. Just stay tuned for updates
leelue
Smash Lord
Who
10whos
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
with teathers, in general, how many frames does it take to reel yourself to the ledge? It's really quick and i can never manage to gimp a teathering fighter who instantly reels in.
leelue
Smash Lord
leelue
Smash Lord
ha
Yeah I'm going to have to see other videos of this rusty guy because that 3AM match made him look like bubbaking
BURN
That is a result of the difference between being on Z or Up-B
Okay let me just clarify what im trying to say.
I believe functionally all tethers should work the same. This includes Up-B and Z(in the air) kind. All three tethers in melee Link, Young Link, Samus, functionally worked the same. Statistically they were different, Samus' was longer, Damage was different, reel speed, etc. Funtionally they were identicle. Everyone could airdodge->tether, cling to the wall, iduce freefall if it missed, etc.
Currently the tethers in P:M are not identical to each other in function. This is due to the fact some are mapped on Z while others are on Up-B. My point is that regardless of which version it is they should all have the same fuctionallity where possible. Which would include giving Ivy the ability to Up-B out of airdodge.
The reason I want this is because it creates a imbalance between tether recoveries. See my previous post about how it does.
I hope that makes a little more sense to everyone.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
more like, bubbaZING
Sixth-Sense
Smash Ace
Oh youYour suggestion sounds cool, Sixth-Sense, but you have to realize that it's probably low on the priority list, as character development is where a majority of the development team is spending their efforts. We also only have a couple AI coders, so something like that might take awhile.
Also, no confirmation on better AI for 2.5 just yet. Just stay tuned for updates
, well yeah i guess it is pretty low on the to-do list, but i hope my little idea could be implemented in the final build for a really awesome smash bros, thanks for the response, and i hope this sticks on to some of you, I think it could really benefit everyone in the end, just sayain.
Stevo
Smash Champion
ok, so you want them to function the same, not because Ivy needs a recovery buff.
I personally feel that, while it is important to maintain some consistency, it is also important to keep things somewhat varied and interesting. Not all up-b's send you up and towards the ledge at an angle for example. Ike has to be vertically below the ledge, and DK can move quite far horizontally. Jiggs doesn't even move. While it is true that a good majority of up-b's function similarily, many of them have their own quirks to give the characters their own identity while still keeping them functionally similar.
OmegaMuffin
Smash Journeyman
Gonna be streaming again. Hopefully no PMBR destroy the amount of viewers I'm gonna get
http://www.twitch.tv/Theomegamuffin
http://www.twitch.tv/Theomegamuffin
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
JCaesar will be streaming tonight lolGonna be streaming again. Hopefully no PMBR destroy the amount of viewers I'm gonna get
http://www.twitch.tv/Theomegamuffin
EDIT: And he just started.
OmegaMuffin
Smash Journeyman
Are you kidding? lmaooo
I knew he was gonna stream but not now... Damnit
Watch my stream anyway! :D
Revven
FrankerZ
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Yup yup, with Vist, CTL, Lafco, 9K, and Ultimario! Almost 100 viewers, let's go!
Jeez Jcaesar, show moar zelda on stream!
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Sorry, I can't have Charizard kill percents at the moment since I've been in school for ten hours today with no sleep. I really will get back to you as soon as I have the time and energy.
No probs. IDRM. I don't need the any time soon so, take your time.
Edit: I'm also now certain that zelda's Din's fire got tweaked in the manner of a buff.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
please tell me you're trolling.
Me? no I'm not. During the one battle in thie Jcaesar stream didn't say, but it was clearly visible.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
how did they buff it specifically? It can't be anything crazy, the move is already godlike. did they nerf farore's wind or something? that move is seriously crazy. it'd make more sense if they traded a nerf for a buff.
Well, from what i've seen, it goes a little faster.
And iLink, side B is a great move, you just have to be tactical about the placements. Example: causing them to try to get rid of it when it's not necessary, or making them think they need to get rid of it.
And to my knowledge, they did not nerf another one of her moves in return... I also think I heard they made the weaker sweetspot on Fair/Bair like Melee again. (like demo 1 Fair/Bair) I'm not sure though.
Use more zelda on stream guys!
And iLink, side B is a great move, you just have to be tactical about the placements. Example: causing them to try to get rid of it when it's not necessary, or making them think they need to get rid of it.
And to my knowledge, they did not nerf another one of her moves in return... I also think I heard they made the weaker sweetspot on Fair/Bair like Melee again. (like demo 1 Fair/Bair) I'm not sure though.
Use more zelda on stream guys!
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