Project M Social Thread

[Rubyiris]

The above isn't true buffering. The c-stick just inputted the command over and over again, kind of like rapid fire.

Also arizona allows buffering, and it's never been a problem.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The above isn't true buffering. The c-stick just inputted the command over and over again, kind of like rapid fire.

You mean the "buffering" in Melee, right?

It functions in a similar manner to any buffer involving the C-Stick, though, except you could only buffer that one input, instead of more than one like in Brawl.

 

[UltiMario]

Unless I'm mistaken and buffer doesn't actually make this smoother, honestly the most amount of buffer that really ever should be considered anyways is 1 frame to compensate for inputs being thrown off by 1 frame in a lot of places.

Otherwise its just an input crutch. Even that shouldn't be around if Melee physics are ever perfected.

 

[Rubyiris]

I personally play with a 6-frame buffer when I'm not playing 0. 1-5 seem to be really ineffectual for the purposes I want to use buffering for, mostly being tight, difficult links.

 

[NeoZ]

If I recall correctly, it's based on distance from the techable ground/wall in Brawl. I think the window is generally somewhere between 3 and 5 frames.

In Melee and P:M, it's, "If you hit a techable ground/wall within 20 frames of pressing a Shield button, you tech. If you don't hit a techable ground/wall 20 frames after pressing a Shield button, you cannot tech for 40 frames afterward."

Outside of that, Melee allowed you to SDI into a wall that you're touching during hitlag and tech it as knockback starts, no matter what direction you're being sent toward, but because of the way the game engine works, they haven't been able to recreate that in P:M.

So it's not just a time window but it also has a distance requirement, that was probably why it felt weird.
Is it something like "you can only tech inside this space" or "you have to tech outside this space"?

 

[Rubyiris]

I think it's all of the above.

 

[kaizo13]

really? cuz i notice quite a difference when going from 0 to 3-4 . suddenly it stops dropping inputs

 

[Magus420]

Brawl tech window is 16 frames (4 less than melee) with a fail window of 40 (same as melee), but because they use the walljump window by mistake or something it's 6 frames (what is actually the tech window goes unused by the game). Also, they only have it within the 1st part of knockback and airdodge actions, so you can't tech during tumble fall or footstooled despite being able to hit the ground in that way (in brawl you can tech tumble fall because you can airdodge out of it). There's also a 2 frame delay between start of knockback and being allowed to tech floors unless your speed is above a certain amount towards it.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I was originally diagnosed with clinical depression at 13. I'm 22 now, and probably worse off now than I was then.

I guess depression will usually follow us in some form till we die, at least traces of it, but my main point was that you are the only one that can change it, change your thinking and thus change the way you feel. It feels like the anxiety and emptiness will never go away when they have become your default emotions over years but trust me, they will and you have the key.

My depression started also very early and went undiagnosed for many years (discovered during therapy) till the bubble bursted. Only during the last couple of years I've really progressed in dealing with it and it has everything to do with the fact that I've worked on improving my self-esteem and changing my inner hatred-filling dialogue with more loving one. One fact that changed my perspective was the viewpoint of creative though, and with psychological viewpoint it is exactly like it. With my depression I didn't have strength to think positively because I felt so empty and numb, even though my rationale told me that that was what I should do. But whenever I had some strength I tried to force myself into positive thinking. I guess it worked somehow.

I don't know why I'm writing this, I wish that I'm not annoying anyone. But anyway, I hope the best for you.

 

[Rubyiris]

The problem I have is that I don't think positively, because quite frankly, there isn't much of anything positive about me, really.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Learning to think positively is the first step to getting out of a depression.

Then again, my depression only lasted a year. It did get really really bad though. Given how fast my brain works, and that depression is a mental thing, it's not surprising that I went through it all really quickly.

 

[Rubyiris]

It's hard to think positively when you're kind of bad at everything you attempt.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

The problem I have is that I don't think positively, because quite frankly, there isn't much of anything positive about me, really.

Are you talking about your emotional nature or are referring to your attributes?

 

[Rubyiris]

Both .

 

[Medz!]

So after playing against ness in tourney I have to say his pk fire is ****ing annoying lol. I have to figure out a way to approach effectively and it still hits me when I shield and then I get *****. I think its even between marth and ness now

 

[Rubyiris]

just jump more, dude.

 

[iLink]

The fact that people say they need a buffer to join a tourney speaks for itself that it does in fact greatly help the player.

Simple fact is that it just gives a larger window for error. It really rubs me the wrong way that people want something like this instead of putting up and practicing how to control your character. I switch from characters like fox/lucario and link often who have pretty different wavedash timings. I will sometimea butcher an attempt but I rather work on getting it right myself then have something correct my error.

Im willing to allow buffer now becauae it would bring in players, but its disappointing to me that people rather use a crutch instead of practice on something. If there is one good thing melee has tought me that I have carried on to other competitive games, is the importance of practicing your timing.

If buffer does stay, i really hope there is a cap. 5 is way more then anyone needs. Heck, I think anything over 2 is pushing it.

 

[Kink-Link5]

So after playing against ness in tourney I have to say his pk fire is ****ing annoying lol. I have to figure out a way to approach effectively and it still hits me when I shield and then I get *****. I think its even between marth and ness now

Spot dodge fights off PK fire in most situations. The move is mostly used in tech chases and in conjunction with shield pressure to make you think exactly what you are when reacting to it. It isn't as good as a Ness with fear on his side makes it.

 

[Medz!]

The problem is when I roll I get away safely like 70% of the time. But when I'm stuck in my shield ness gets a free grab. You should look at the matches and tell me how I did. Input would be very much appreciated

 

[Kink-Link5]

Spot dodge on reaction to his loud PI-KE; it sucks when you are stuck in it but it isn't hard to avoid the set up unless you are in a teching situation.

 

[Medz!]

Now that I see it maybe it was the fact that he was figuring me out on smashville. I did pretty good on PS2. Thanks for the input. Ness is just weird to fight lol

 

[Archangel]

So after playing against ness in tourney I have to say his pk fire is ****ing annoying lol. I have to figure out a way to approach effectively and it still hits me when I shield and then I get *****. I think its even between marth and ness now

The problem is when I roll I get away safely like 70% of the time. But when I'm stuck in my shield ness gets a free grab. You should look at the matches and tell me how I did. Input would be very much appreciated

it's good but it's not as OP'd as you might think especially if you play as Marth. Anyone who plays alot of Marth vs Falco will probably tell you ness is easy. Simply because....well after training to reflect lasers...PK fire is nothing. That and you can always jump over it.

 

[ds22]

I say that the buffer option should be removed because of three reasons.

A. It replaces the handicap option, rather than being a separate option.
B. It hooks into stamina mode, making stamina use buffer.
C. It's original purpose, to help new players practice advanced techniques, hasn't been achieved as it is rather used to grant the uses a larger window for error in competitive play.

So unless the code can be reworked to not replace handicap, not hook into stamina mode and only be usable in training mode, I don't see any reason to keep the buffer option.

 

[GaretHax]

Okay so Brawl's stricter tech timing was poor coding and really just an accident. The arguements for buffer thusly seem to be mostly comprised of a rather real possibilty of driving away brawl players who are very much aware of the global buffer's existence. (along with an attempted, but probably sarcastic counter-concession of returning the brawl tech-window.) But that was covered above and would only amount to 4 frames of difference, whereas the global buffer goes up to 10.

Melee having buffer frames is kind of a moot point as iirc they have already been carried over into the project and didn't impact the tech-skill requirements of the game at all. But to be fair maybe having global buffer wouldn't be a bad thing at all, perhaps more perfect players by default, even through a frame-crutch or handicap, would make for a better game. I'm not certain it would, but it IS possible. But what of the people who have worked hard, and are still working hard, on their tech skill in a 0-buffer environment? Should the people with the pre-existing aptitude have to adapt to playing those with assisted skill? Aluminum bats are not allowed in pro baseball, the guard rails don't go up in bowling tournaments, basketball games don't lower the basket for the underdog team, and you certainly dont get to hit into the doubles lines in singles tennis.

In essence buffer really is like giving someone that extra few feet to hit the ball into, it allows players to perform at a higher level of consistency and "skill" by giving them more leniency. It also allows them to perform shots, or in melee's case techs, that are more difficult and may even be impossible for someone without buffer. But since smash is a video game perhaps having a more equal playing field, somewhat independent of player tech-skill, would make things more interesting. I can't imagine the trick shots pro bowlers could do with rails up, and Federrer vs Nadal with double courts would be disgusting lol!

However I still feel the argument against buffer is far stronger. Melee is, after all, the game PM is trying to emulate, and Melee has a very high tech-skill requirement, plus a very low error tolerance. It also has a massive gap between true casual, semi-casual, and tournament-level play. A global buffer makes more difficult timings easier, if not making certain things possible in the first place, and ultimately would pretty much by definition not belong in a game trying to replicate one of the most technically demanding games in existence IMHO at least. Plus I think fox with 10 frames of buffer is just dumb, multi-shine to shield break via-spamming erry-day.

 

[Tmacc]

Hey, any idea how to get replays for this working? How are people recording?
Hylian and I have been playing a lot and I'd like to get some matches up.

 

[MonkUnit]

Hey, any idea how to get replays for this working? How are people recording?
Hylian and I have been playing a lot and I'd like to get some matches up.

If you want to save replays and/or play on WiFi, use the WiFi build on the Project M Download page. If you're not saving the replay files or playing on WiFi, use the Full (offline) build. The differences between these two builds are listed on the download page.

 

[standardtoaster]

I record using a dazzle dvc 100 and virtual dub.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I thought you couldn't stream with virtual dub, though. Or do you use a different program for streaming?

 

[NeoZ]

I can't imagine the trick shots pro bowlers could do with rails up, and Rapha vs Nadal with double courts would be disgusting lol!

You should try separating what you write into paragraphs, I read it, but I'm guessing a lot of people will just ignore posts that are giant walls of text.

And the part I quoted made me wonder, when you say Rapha, you don't mean Rafael Nadal, right?
Cause, AFAIK, they don't have mirror matches in tennis.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Hey, everyone--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgjviT4W9aU

 

[NeoZ]

Hey, everyone--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgjviT4W9aU

That's old and also an unintended side effect of how the engine reads the c-stick(direction+attack).
IIRC, this is something the PMBR intends to fix.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

And until then (if they manage/care to do it at all), it's an AT that people should start experimenting with. I think it has a good deal of potential in competitive play.

 

[Revven]

Hey, everyone--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgjviT4W9aU

It's been in the known issues since we launched the demo and will be fixed in the future so don't get used to it.

C-stick down smash while holding an item results in a down smash instead of an item throw. Grabbing while holding an item is possible while doing a standing turn.
C-stick up while crawling will still result in a down smash
The Star item's effects will sometimes dissipate really early but the invincibility still remains active for the normal time.
[b]Edge canceling aerials with the C-stick can be done by just standing still. This is because of the C-stick counting as direction + A.[/b]
Super Spicy Curry can sometimes spazz out and generally cause oddities.
The Timer item has lots of physics oddities and can cause instant deaths.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Better fix it soon. I'm gonna try to make it work for me in the meantime, and given that I'm the most successful P:M player to date (as far as I know), it could only help. :3

 

[JCaesar]

That title definitely belongs to Kage, assuming you're talking about wins at major tournaments.

 

[Strong Badam]

maybe he's talking about the fact that he made $400 or something because of that pot bonus for Hybrid

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yeah, I was talking about money made, and it was mostly a joke, anyway. I don't have any delusions about my skill level.

 

[dirtydurrant]

just jump more, dude.

And then I DJC and PK fire you anyway. THERE IS NO ESCAPE!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

And then I DJC and PK fire you anyway. THERE IS NO ESCAPE!

Spotdodge on reaction to his screaming out "PK Fire."

 

[Strong Badam]

c-stick a roll away after it hits your shield