Project M Social Thread

[Supreme Dirt]

^ About time somebody made this post. *edit* the one two posts up


Honestly, only things I'm really hyped for in P:M are shiny new stuff. The new characters, and buffed mid-low tiers. As I've said before, the Melee top/high tier never really appealed to me.

That said, I do think that Marth could get something. Doesn't have to be a huge buff. Hell doesn't have to be a buff at all, could be more an easter egg sort of thing. Just something to freshen Marth a little bit.


So hyped for the new GaW, so hyped for the new TL.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Or you can just get over the fact that any seriously good competitive game is going to have bad playable selections, characters, species, learnsets, stats, or otherwise. It's quite appalling to think people want this to be a balanced product in the sense that every character is equally viable.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I can actually name two games off the top of my head with a fairly balanced cast, BlazBlue and Guilty Gear. Given, a fighter is much easier to balance than Smash (still hard), but w/e.

But yeah, I'm well aware. I personally don't think Marth needs any buffs, but more just something to freshen him up a little bit.

 

[GP&B]

Like his Melee walk animation. Oh, and replace his voice with Hikaru Midorikawa's.

 

[leelue]

DJ will **** if he gets P:M bowser..

DJ Nintendo's Bowser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xy84UdD094

Just to be clear, that was one of the most pedestrian performances I've ever seen form a marth player. Christopher Reeves could beat him with bowser.
And he's dead.

 

[Kink-Link5]

The only buffs Marth needs are to make his sword red and give him blonde hair and a mask.

Instantly better than regular Marth.


You can call it


Charth.

 

[Shadic]

So hyped for the new GaW, so hyped for the new TL.

As you should be. Toon Link is one of those characters that we developed that you look at and go "And Nintendo didn't do this.. Why?"

Then you remember, Sakurai.

 

[leelue]

I very much enjoyed playing against TL last week.
Although I must say that ZSS was easily the most fluid new character as far as I can tell.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

As you should be. Toon Link is one of those characters that we developed that you look at and go "And Nintendo didn't do this.. Why?"

Then you remember, Sakurai.

I know, I've played the new TL. Bang up job.

tbh I really don't know how much interest I'd hold in the project if it weren't for TL. I'd probably be among the "meh, I'll just stick to Melee" folks.

 

[GP&B]

I already use tons of hacks with my game so I'd find little to no reason to go back to Melee when the fully complete P:M is released. I'm really looking forward to TL too.

 

[Evilagram]

Marth main here, happy about the animation fixes and personally, I don't think he needs a buff or anything redefining. I'd prefer to keep him mostly as is. If it becomes a balance issue, maybe some simple number buffs.

Only buff I'd really want is a bit more damage from a low charge neutral B. It gets nice knockback, but often I find it's more worthwhile just to hit the enemy with another aerial.

EDIT: A bit more knockback on his bair might be cool too. Make it more of a kill move, less of a combo move? *shrug* I'm just really happy with how melee marth was.

 

[`dazrin]

So much hype for toonlink! :3 Can't wait to play him again, seriously lol. Whenever I play melee YL, I always reminisce back a couple weeks ago at gameclucks when I played toonlink and remember how much awesome was contained in him. Toon Link is a huge reason why I can Bairly wait for demo2 to be released!

46 more days!

 

[Juushichi]

You still get to chose tho.

Great job so far, P:M team and keep up the good work. Glad that there are still abundant streams and that more and more hard work is being put into the game. Here's to hoping for an amazing Demo 2 release, much like the Demo 1 that preceded it.

**** the haters, they can wait until the game is out to see about buffs, nerfs, all that type of bull**** they're complaining about without playing the game.

 

[I R MarF]

the amount of crying in this thread about people's mains is some of the most pathetic, depraved, disconcerting garbage i've read in this thread in a long time. outside of umbreon's post nothing that has been said has been constructive or useful not to mention most of you haven't even played project M's latest build making your comments seriously hot air. it was already said that umbreon hadn't played the PM build of marth with the fixed animations... and most of you crying about your alleged-low-tier-main haven't even PLAYED the game.

what i see is nothing more than a bunch of the SAME self entitled righteous forum-dwellers attempting to cry and moan all the way back home from walmart because mommy didn't buy you that expensive action figure. "maybe if i whine until her ears bleed, she'll have no choice but to turn the van around and go back buy it for me!" well guess what, you're not convincing NO ONE, *AND* you're not getting your toy. how does that feel?!

y'all talk like your PEOPLE are being PERSECUTED when it comes to your character.... seriously, drama much? what is going through your minds when you make posts like that? get some bloody perspective on what you're saying and make posts that don't sound like they're coming from a 10 year old that's getting pwned in a fighting game (oh wait.), and MAYBE someone will sit down and consider the content of your post.

seriously guys, what the ****?

This post isn't much better. You provided no evidence that would give anyone the incentive to stop.

Also, Umbreon noted that Marth is slightly inferior to c. Falcon and Peach. If you agree with that, the hypocrisy alone for buffing C. Falcon, Peach, and Sheik (wall cling, whether you wish to admmit it or not, is still a buff) is enough to justify giving Marth a stronger bair. I cannot reiterate how simple and logical it is to give Marth a fast and safe killing aerial when the entire cast already has at least one.

 

[Ecks]

wait until the game is out to see about buffs, nerfs, all that type of bull****

I've been saying this for a while. It's not like the full release won't be updated ever again. Balancing is trial and error. Every fighting game community should know this. If something isn't working, they'll fix it.

-Ness for demo2-

 

[leelue]

I cannot reiterate how simple and logical it is to give Marth a fast and safe killing aerial when the entire cast already has at least one.

Are you talking about for edge guarding?
Because, you have one.

Also, zelda doesn't. (when someone start's sweetspotting those off the stage on a regular basis, I'll take that off the list)
Nor does wario.

In fact, there are a lot of characters who have a less safe and less effective time off the stage compared to Marth. Bowser, ZSS (from what i can tell), Ness, Lucas...


I R Marf, I doubt that anything could be said about the current state of the game to make you shut up.

You don't know how many characters will be easy-ish for marth to pick off anymore than you think that every character's recovery will just leave him out to dry.
Yeah, a lot of characters will have better recoveries, but many will still be able to die to some Fair swats and Dairs. Perhaps having a large percentage of characters who cant recover with the ease of a puff, or the mixups of a falco/fox, or even accompanied with the danger of going offstage to take down a character like sheik will make him better. Seriously.
Also, footstool to dair is a real thing that literally None of the other melee characters can use except marth.

 

[GP&B]

IIRC, the only buff Captain Falcon got was to make it so Raptor Boost can actually grab the ledge, right? I know people are going to mention the momentum retainment on Falcon Dive, but I distinctly remember magus releasing a .pac file after the release of the demo that fixed this so it acts how it was in Melee. I actually have it.

It's barely an improvement to the Captain's recovery. It has the same stall as Dive before it actually starts moving, making it just as incredibly predictable. I don't see how Marth should have any trouble edgeguarding this like how he does with Dive.

Correct me if there's more buffs, but it's a joke how much a big deal people have made of this recovery "buff".

 

[leelue]

Falcon Kick is better (read; not the worst attack option ever) and I think he can grab the ledge from a slightly safer sweetspot

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

As you should be. Toon Link is one of those characters that we developed that you look at and go "And Nintendo didn't do this.. Why?"

Then you remember, Sakurai.

What changes were made to TL?

 

[Ecks]

All of Falcon's b moves got slightly buffed, except for neutral b, which is brawl's (iirc they couldn't change it).

Edit: I guess you could say side b is a considerable buff.

 

[MonkUnit]

Only "buffs" I can remember CF having were faster falcon kick and grab ledge from Raptor Boost.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

He can also reverse Falcon Punch, making it slightly stronger at the cost of a few frames of lag.

 

[leelue]

So he can kill missed rests at 45 instead of 55, I suppose. (made up #'s)

 

[Shadic]

What changes were made to TL?

Half of his moveset.


USmash, FSmash, Nair, UpB, just to name a few.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Actually come to think of it, does reversed Warlock Punch kill before UTilt in P:M?

 

[I R MarF]

Are you talking about for edge guarding?
Because, you have one.

Also, zelda doesn't. (when someone start's sweetspotting those off the stage on a regular basis, I'll take that off the list)
Nor does wario.

In fact, there are a lot of characters who have a less safe and less effective time off the stage compared to Marth. Bowser, ZSS (from what i can tell), Ness, Lucas...
I R Marf, I doubt that anything could be said about the current state of the game to make you shut up.

Edge guarding? Why are you talking about offstage games or edge guarding? How does wanting a safe killing aerial insuiate it has anything to do with that subject? A killing aerial is useful without putting yourself in danger. Marth already has options for offstage killing, its called performing a gimping aerial during double jump, and unless your are a DJCer in Melee, pretty much the whole cast has this option.

I'm talking about a fast killing aerial that could be combo'd into or remains a good option when your opponent is at high percent. Current examples of killing aerials: Fox and Falco with Bairs, Sheik with fair, C. Falcon with knee, Peach with fair (and bair is good too), ICs with bair, Ganon with fair, Doc with fair, Samus with nair/bair, etc.

A move like one the aforementioned, Marth has not. And Zelda doesn't have to go off stage to kill someone with a sweetspotted fair/bair. Thats actually another good example of a killing aerial.

 

[ph00tbag]

WANT SAMUS!!!

Still mad as **** that the game just won't let this work.

 

[GP&B]

All of Falcon's b moves got slightly buffed, except for neutral b, which is brawl's (iirc they couldn't change it).

Edit: I guess you could say side b is a considerable buff.

SHeLL stated that he couldn't get the falcon graphic to appear at the same time. A rather strange exception considering how easy it is to do everything else (animation speed, hitbox timing, SFX timing, etc.).

 

[drsusredfish]

are any of bowsers armor moves armored on frame 1?

 

[phurgawtin]

the only one that i think even comes close is his nair, but we'd have to wait for a PMBR person to verify its specific framedata.

 

[drsusredfish]

oh yeah happy valentine's day everyone.

 

[AeonClock]

Edge guarding? Why are you talking about offstage games or edge guarding? How does wanting a safe killing aerial insuiate it has anything to do with that subject? A killing aerial is useful without putting yourself in danger. Marth already has options for offstage killing, its called performing a gimping aerial during double jump, and unless your are a DJCer in Melee, pretty much the whole cast has this option.

I'm talking about a fast killing aerial that could be combo'd into or remains a good option when your opponent is at high percent. Current examples of killing aerials: Fox and Falco with Bairs, Sheik with fair, C. Falcon with knee, Peach with fair (and bair is good too), ICs with bair, Ganon with fair, Doc with fair, Samus with nair/bair, etc.

A move like one the aforementioned, Marth has not. And Zelda doesn't have to go off stage to kill someone with a sweetspotted fair/bair. Thats actually another good example of a killing aerial.

I hope you realize how ****ing ridiculous Marth would be with an aerial kill move that's not his dair. ESPECIALLY with RAR.

To all the people complaining about Marth and his lack of buffs I say this: Shut the **** up.
If Marth needs buffs, he'll get them. Is the game at the stage to determine whether or not he would need buffs? Not really. Every "valid" reason that those of you that support Marth getting buffs proposed is based of of theory. Smash is a game that has no bounds. Characters have the ability to rise and fall as dominant forces at any time. Instead of theorizing about potential match-up problems and coming up with buffs to cover those match-up problems, why not wait till you can play those match-ups yourself and gain some hands on knowledge before you make yourselves look like self-indulgent *****.

"Everything is subject to change"
The PMBR has been saying it since the project began, yet people don't seem to take this seriously anymore.

 

[MonkUnit]

I'm sure some people have just seen the "Everything is subject to change" as the Readme.txt on installing programs. No one reads it or pays attention to it, lol.

 

[hotdogturtle]

All of Falcon's b moves got slightly buffed, except for neutral b, which is brawl's (iirc they couldn't change it).

Isn't keeping Brawl's nB over Melee's already a good buff?

 

[`dazrin]

agreed with aeonclock.

 

[I R MarF]

I hope you realize how ****ing ridiculous Marth would be with an aerial kill move that's not his dair. ESPECIALLY with RAR.

To all the people complaining about Marth and his lack of buffs I say this: Shut the **** up.
If Marth needs buffs, he'll get them. Is the game at the stage to determine whether or not he would need buffs? Not really. Every "valid" reason that those of you that support Marth getting buffs proposed is based of of theory. Smash is a game that has no bounds. Characters have the ability to rise and fall as dominant forces at any time. Instead of theorizing about potential match-up problems and coming up with buffs to cover those match-up problems, why not wait till you can play those match-ups yourself and gain some hands on knowledge before you make yourselves look like self-indulgent *****.

"Everything is subject to change"
The PMBR has been saying it since the project began, yet people don't seem to take this seriously anymore.

1. Lmao @ Marth being ridiculous if bair was buffed. As long as it was kept within bounds similar to the power to Fox and Falco's bair, it would simply fill a hole in the hole in his game. That hole being the lacking of a safe HIGH PERCENT kill option. It definitely shouldn't be given power like Falcon's Knee. It'd be mainly useful around 100% and its killing strength would surface at 120%

2. If you think just his dair suffices the need for a killing aerial or that its what makes Marth good, you clearly don't play Marth/hardly understand the character. The move is difficult to use outside of combo finishers/poor recovery decisions from the opponent. making it almost situational when compared to the utility in his fair/nair/uair combos.

3. A stronger bair with RAR would not make him ridiculous either. Again, you prove you don't know anything about the move, Marth, or even weigh into account what RAR does for other top tiers who already have great bairs. First of all, Marth currently gets almost zero mileage out of RARing when compared to the rest of the cast who benefit immensely from it. Secondly, unlike most character's bairs, Marth's does not exceed the range of his main approach aerial (In his case, fair), while still suffering the same issues of slower hitboxes and bad land lag. fair is still a better option whereas now you'll see a lot of Sheik's and Jiggs approaching with bairs. Third, Marth can't combo into bair as easily as a lot of other characters could combo into their killing aerials. RARing actually would help this issue a bit, but at least players would be required to RAR in addition to the correct spacing in order to get a lot of mileage out of the move.

4. Aside from the offensive and ignorant garbage laced in the beginning of your post, the rest of it is actually a good point. I would argue that testing should be done first and most of this is just theory... but its pretty accurate for theory and I think its a pretty safe bet that Marth is going lose out in the end; due to both match-up strengths only being relative... his unique attributes are outclassed by other characters... and overall, he'll be strenuous to use in high level play/uninteresting to new players. Bair just makes sense as a fix since everyone else has that dynamic in their gameplay but him. bair sucks currently.

 

[Archangel]

I hope you realize how ****ing ridiculous Marth would be with an aerial kill move that's not his dair. ESPECIALLY with RAR.

To all the people complaining about Marth and his lack of buffs I say this: Shut the **** up.
If Marth needs buffs, he'll get them. Is the game at the stage to determine whether or not he would need buffs? Not really. Every "valid" reason that those of you that support Marth getting buffs proposed is based of of theory. Smash is a game that has no bounds. Characters have the ability to rise and fall as dominant forces at any time. Instead of theorizing about potential match-up problems and coming up with buffs to cover those match-up problems, why not wait till you can play those match-ups yourself and gain some hands on knowledge before you make yourselves look like self-indulgent *****.

"Everything is subject to change"
The PMBR has been saying it since the project began, yet people don't seem to take this seriously anymore.

I would agree with this however it's just to big of a hypocritical statement. Why are other characters being buffed to cover weaknesses and others not? I can except that some characters will naturally be ****ty compared to others. However this isn't naturally being selected at all. People are choosing to make SS-tiers out of their favorites and purposely bypassing other characters. it's personal selection.

As for Marth being Ridiculous. How do you know? It hasn't been tested after all. It's a tipper Bair anyway. It couldn't be more powerful then a tipper fsmash at even with it it's not like Marth has a dthrow-Bair set up. All in all it would be like having a potential tipper Fsmash but in the air but you still have to get lucky with the setup because Marth has nothing that leads into it. It's not like he will be Sheik with a sword or anything.

 

[AeonClock]

Also, any argument rallying for buffs for Marth on the basis that Falcon and Peach recieved buffs is seriously flawed. Most, practically all, of the buffs they received were buffs already present in Brawl. All the other buffs they received were small, sensible, and barely affect their playstyle.
Marth, on the other hand, is incredibly hard to buff. Why? Because all of his moves are useable and good. As a Marth main, I don't think there has ever been a game that I haven't utilized all of his moves.

Additionally, Marth is essentially the Mario of competitive Smash as opposed to casual Smash. In my opinion, he is the ONLY character that has a moveset that is completely balanced. He directly reflects the skill of the player, and this is why I don't see a problem with leaving him as he is. Marth isn't fun because he has some sort of gimmick. Marth isn't fun because you don't have to work for your kills. Marth is fun because it takes true skill to make him shine. Marth is fun because after pulling off a zero to death combo on Fox, you feel like YOU actually accomplished something, not the character or his moveset.

Edit:
@I R Marf - You listed aerial kill moves such as Doc's fair, Falcon's knee, Sheik's fair, etc, implying that Marth's bair would have the similar power to these moves. You should've been more clear as to what you meant in order to avoid confusion. Since I was going off that assumption (making an *** out of you and me in the process TROLOLOL) I pictured Marth RARing a knee power tipped bair. I was not amused.

Edit2: Oh, and I also don't count Marth's Brawl side-b as a buff because that **** was ********. Just saying.

 

[I R MarF]

Marth is very easy to buff. All you have to do is just boost the KB growth of bair. And sorry for the confusion, but I am only talking about in respects of KO power for something like Fox and Falco's bairs. (I was using Falcon's knee as an example of a killing aerial that doesn't meteor/spike; something Marth lacks)

And Bair is very mediocre in its current state and it would compliment his move set extremely well if it were enhanced. You'd be lying to yourself if you didn't think it wouldn't help alleviate marth's primary issues without changing his fundamentals. Bair buff would be simple and beautiful.

 

[Archangel]

Also, any argument rallying for buffs for Marth on the basis that Falcon and Peach recieved buffs is seriously flawed. Most, practically all, of the buffs they received were buffs already present in Brawl. All the other buffs they received were small, sensible, and barely affect their playstyle.
Marth, on the other hand, is incredibly hard to buff. Why? Because all of his moves are useable and good. As a Marth main, I don't think there has ever been a game that I haven't utilized all of his moves.

Additionally, Marth is essentially the Mario of competitive Smash as opposed to casual Smash. In my opinion, he is the ONLY character that has a moveset that is completely balanced. He directly reflects the skill of the player, and this is why I don't see a problem with leaving him as he is. Marth isn't fun because he has some sort of gimmick. Marth isn't fun because you don't have to work for your kills. Marth is fun because it takes true skill to make him shine. Marth is fun because after pulling off a zero to death combo on Fox, you feel like YOU actually accomplished something, not the character or his moveset

What you say honestly makes me doubt that you even play marth. Yet you say you main marth. Idk...I've been playing Marth for a long time now from a Third string to Secondary to a main. I've been watching Marth Specifically since I started the Legacy project 2 years ago. I have seen many of his strengths and weaknesses and experienced it first hand. I am telling you Marth is by no means the poster boy for balance. Neither is Mario . Doc is much closer tbh at least a Doc/Mario combo. Marth has some very big strengths that carried him pretty far. Very Small weakness that has been more or less stretched in recent years do to everyone overall getting faster/better. And I'm not sure how to put this simple enough. Fox is 1 Character out of the cast. and Final D is 1 stage. If you manage to get a 0-death on him on FD....great...that isn't going to solve his issues against Puff for example by any means.