GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
L-canceling discussion (at least two or three different occasions), Lucario when the OHC system was revealed, and experimental Bowser (which was an accident to reveal anyways). This doesn't even compare.
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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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Shadic
Alakadoof?
Mario confirmed for Demo 2.You guys should release info about a newcomer for demo 2 every other week or so to build up hype IMO :V Like unveil the new roster each week, one character at a time
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Lol, but seriously, I agree with that idea! More videos like the charizard and lucario video would create big hype for the game.
Kind of like a character spotlight
But yeah, lol it's alot easier said than done and since no one (probably) has the time to do those, (cuz everyone is busy releasing demo2) and thats cool too. Maybe a new DOJO!-esque blog post about the new characters? Should be simple enough way to generate hype.
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
I said newcomer you butthead >.<
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Daze, don't post a 4000x3000 picture. Christ.
9Kplus1
Smash Master
Will Rikana be in the second release?
`dazrin
Smash Champion
CSDragon
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2011
- Messages
- 201
@ The marth thing:
As a marth main, I'm perfectly fine with him being worse in the tiers. The goal of the P:M is to make every character viable and balanced in a melee environment, and that just means the other characters are fitting into that sweetspot of balance between Marth and Fox that is S rank characters.
Maybe, after P:M gets released, he'll get a nice buff to make him more viable and 200 balance patches later he'll have 50:50 match-ups across the board, but for now, he's fine. He can drop to B or C tier as long as he's just as powerful relative to himself as he was before and as long as we have the knowledge that like every other character, he will still be viable.
As a marth main, I'm perfectly fine with him being worse in the tiers. The goal of the P:M is to make every character viable and balanced in a melee environment, and that just means the other characters are fitting into that sweetspot of balance between Marth and Fox that is S rank characters.
Maybe, after P:M gets released, he'll get a nice buff to make him more viable and 200 balance patches later he'll have 50:50 match-ups across the board, but for now, he's fine. He can drop to B or C tier as long as he's just as powerful relative to himself as he was before and as long as we have the knowledge that like every other character, he will still be viable.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
lets talk about something fun
in order to balance the lolbrawl recoveries in hopes of maintaining the entertaining nature of the famed melee clutch recovery situations, it was deemed necessary to try to make recovery moves across the board have the same risk factor involved as melee veterans. the recoveries i am specifically talking about are ones that provide boosts of momentum with no specialfall tacked on the end. almost all of them were either made so that the character goes into specialfall, or loses the ability to air dodge afterwards. in melee, airdodges provide a boost of movement in any direction you want, but in brawl this was not the case.
just to recap what was done to these boost of movement upBs with no specialfall:
-sonic's upB launches sonic greatly into the air, allowing him to perform aerials, but puts him into a special falling animation which disables all over B moves and air dodges until he hits the floor.
-snake's cypher ascends snake steadily with a recurring electric hitbox. this cannot be air dodged out of and snake cannot air dodge after releasing the cypher either.
-GW essentially retains his brawl upB but loses the umbrella and the ability to air dodge. this was done to improve his combo game.
-yoshis upB was left as melee
-wario's sideB is no longer a bike, and now goes into specialfall
however, there's one exception: ROB. ROB's recovery involves using "boosts" with his sideB and upB up 3 times (you can go up up up, up left right, left left up, etc) giving this move a lot of varied and unpredictable movement. each of these boosts are essentially air-dodge length bursts of movement with no debilitating effects such as losing an air dodge or the ability to do other B moves (though this wouldn't make sense). also, rob's bair gets a little momentum boost making rob's horizontal recovery movement quite potent.
so smashboards, what do you guys think? based on recurring recovering themes in melee, do you think it's fine to leave this option for ROB in?
in order to balance the lolbrawl recoveries in hopes of maintaining the entertaining nature of the famed melee clutch recovery situations, it was deemed necessary to try to make recovery moves across the board have the same risk factor involved as melee veterans. the recoveries i am specifically talking about are ones that provide boosts of momentum with no specialfall tacked on the end. almost all of them were either made so that the character goes into specialfall, or loses the ability to air dodge afterwards. in melee, airdodges provide a boost of movement in any direction you want, but in brawl this was not the case.
just to recap what was done to these boost of movement upBs with no specialfall:
-sonic's upB launches sonic greatly into the air, allowing him to perform aerials, but puts him into a special falling animation which disables all over B moves and air dodges until he hits the floor.
-snake's cypher ascends snake steadily with a recurring electric hitbox. this cannot be air dodged out of and snake cannot air dodge after releasing the cypher either.
-GW essentially retains his brawl upB but loses the umbrella and the ability to air dodge. this was done to improve his combo game.
-yoshis upB was left as melee
-wario's sideB is no longer a bike, and now goes into specialfall
however, there's one exception: ROB. ROB's recovery involves using "boosts" with his sideB and upB up 3 times (you can go up up up, up left right, left left up, etc) giving this move a lot of varied and unpredictable movement. each of these boosts are essentially air-dodge length bursts of movement with no debilitating effects such as losing an air dodge or the ability to do other B moves (though this wouldn't make sense). also, rob's bair gets a little momentum boost making rob's horizontal recovery movement quite potent.
so smashboards, what do you guys think? based on recurring recovering themes in melee, do you think it's fine to leave this option for ROB in?
CSDragon
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2011
- Messages
- 201
DanteFox??this discussion
`dazrin
Smash Champion
@ rob recovery:
It's hard to say without having actually played against it a few times to have the experience of dealing with it, (no one played rob against me and I only played him once in teams) so my knowledge is greatly limited.
However, from what I see in videos and in JCaesars stream, I think it's fine.. maybe remove the option of airdodging after? I like his current recovery much better than his vbrawl recovery because it gives rob a ton of aerial manuverability on stage (for example, as an approach perhaps?) which I feel compliments his strong set of aerials. Sometimes you can still kind've predict how rob will use his boosts based on the position he's recovering from, so it isn't impossible by any means to predict where he will be. I feel like puff is kind've similar in the sense that sometimes it's hard to predict where she will be when she gets back on the stage, but it isn't completely broken or anything. I think if something were to be done, perhaps just remove the ability to airdodge after his 2nd and/or 3rd boost maybe? Obviously I'm just throwing that out there, but perhaps with a bit of testing it could alleviate the problem you imply.
Just my thoughts. Don't have much competitive insight to offer on the subject or anything
It's hard to say without having actually played against it a few times to have the experience of dealing with it, (no one played rob against me
and I only played him once in teams) so my knowledge is greatly limited. However, from what I see in videos and in JCaesars stream, I think it's fine.. maybe remove the option of airdodging after? I like his current recovery much better than his vbrawl recovery because it gives rob a ton of aerial manuverability on stage (for example, as an approach perhaps?) which I feel compliments his strong set of aerials. Sometimes you can still kind've predict how rob will use his boosts based on the position he's recovering from, so it isn't impossible by any means to predict where he will be. I feel like puff is kind've similar in the sense that sometimes it's hard to predict where she will be when she gets back on the stage, but it isn't completely broken or anything. I think if something were to be done, perhaps just remove the ability to airdodge after his 2nd and/or 3rd boost maybe? Obviously I'm just throwing that out there, but perhaps with a bit of testing it could alleviate the problem you imply.
Just my thoughts. Don't have much competitive insight to offer on the subject or anything
@Jiang
strangely, I don't really mind r.o.b's current up-b/side-b as it seems to be easily intercepted. it would be a different story tho if he could boost diagonally, but he can't.
has he been tested with only 2 boosts? I would like to think that bair boost+2nd jump+2 boosts+AD would be enough
strangely, I don't really mind r.o.b's current up-b/side-b as it seems to be easily intercepted. it would be a different story tho if he could boost diagonally, but he can't.
has he been tested with only 2 boosts? I would like to think that bair boost+2nd jump+2 boosts+AD would be enough
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
I think that ROB's dashes are fine mechanic wise (balance wise I wouldn't be able to say), because in Melee Jigglypuff already has an even better no-special fall recovery in her multiple jumps and pound. Something you might do though is make it so that ROB goes into special fall after his third boost. This way he would only get 3 boosts total to recover, instead of the current situation where he has 3 normal boosts AND his AD boost.
EDIT: Seems I wasn't the only one to think of this, damn ninjas
EDIT: Seems I wasn't the only one to think of this, damn ninjas
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
R.O.B. is fine with 3 boosts iff he only gets 1 back after being hit. They essentially act like something of extra jumps, and provide him with a good but predictable recovery that when gimped should actually BE gimped.
ITT: I have no idea what happens at the moment when ROB is hit after using his boosts V:
ITT: I have no idea what happens at the moment when ROB is hit after using his boosts V:
Archangel
Smash Hero
Rob has some gay things about him but his recovery is very much fine. All you have to do is get him to use his jump/jumps and he's ****ed. In fact I was yelling on stream at one point because JC used all of his extra air jumps and cmart let him land.....
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Currently ROB doesn't regain boosts unless he lands, at least, as far as I know it works that way. Not sure if grabbing the ledge counts.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Then his recovery is no better than Kirby's, except that Kirby has an actual recovery move as well.
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
Who ?
leelue
Smash Lord
He gets one boost back from the ledge.
The system is rather strong, to be honest. I've had the luxury of playing with it and at least it is gimpable. I'd prefer him losing the air dodge at the end for symmetry's sake, but by the same token I wanted him to regain all boosts on the ledge. This way, he fits snugly into "momentum style recoveries". This is aesthetically pleasing and it lowers the barriers to entry for the game by a tad (something I mention constantly because I think this is one Very Important facet of the game's design that is overlooked).
To reiterate
I would really appreciate it if all "momentum" based recoveries had the same basic rule (no airdodge).
But Idk, JC has a design in mind, apparently.
Jiang, are you sure yoshi doesn't have brawl upB? He did when I played on Saturday with EternalYoshi.
The system is rather strong, to be honest. I've had the luxury of playing with it and at least it is gimpable. I'd prefer him losing the air dodge at the end for symmetry's sake, but by the same token I wanted him to regain all boosts on the ledge. This way, he fits snugly into "momentum style recoveries". This is aesthetically pleasing and it lowers the barriers to entry for the game by a tad (something I mention constantly because I think this is one Very Important facet of the game's design that is overlooked).
To reiterate
I would really appreciate it if all "momentum" based recoveries had the same basic rule (no airdodge).
But Idk, JC has a design in mind, apparently.
Jiang, are you sure yoshi doesn't have brawl upB? He did when I played on Saturday with EternalYoshi.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
what i meant by melee upB was just that it didn't put him into specialfall/removed AD. forgot about the momentum thingy.
leelue
Smash Lord
Ok
That, I curiously don't mind as far as symmetry goes. I categorize it more as a "cape" recovery assistant, I suppose.
Professor, doesn't ITT mean "in this thread"?
That, I curiously don't mind as far as symmetry goes. I categorize it more as a "cape" recovery assistant, I suppose.
Professor, doesn't ITT mean "in this thread"?
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
That is indeed exactly what ITT means
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
"In this thread: I have no idea ROB's status, etc.," makes sense with a wide enough viewing lens. Basically "On the current topic, here's my stance, whether or not it is already implemented"
I have played quite a bit of project m and I think ROBs recovery is fine the wy it is. It is unique and being able to air dodge out of it gives rob different options and strategies for approaching and baiting. I would like to see rob retain his uniqueness
leelue
Smash Lord
I don't mind him being able to airdodge out of it in general, I just do not care for it as a "sixth" jump.
I'm not adamantly opposed, to be clear. I am merely on that side of the fence.
I'm not adamantly opposed, to be clear. I am merely on that side of the fence.
Archangel
Smash Hero
why not just give him the ability to do an attack out of it but not be able to air dodge? 
CSDragon
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2011
- Messages
- 201
http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=35117
A smashboards member who leads the Santa Barbara scene and uses this as his Avi.
Which was the joke.
I R MarF
Smash Ace
I think I agree with this idea. I like all the little facets players learn to perform the ideal recovery for their character; Mario and Samus being great examples of this idea. Maybe in ROB's case, it could be the superiority of performing an AD as opposed to the third boost? This could be achieved by giving the 3rd boost a higher landfall special lag than AD. Idk, I'm just throwing ideas around
JCaesar
Smash Hero
You left out some pretty important details like how Sonic and Snake can both airdodge after up-B if they do an aerial first, G&W can use his 2nd jump after his up-B for recovery mixups, and how ROB gets nothing back when he gets hit or grabs the ledge (unless he has 0 boosts left when he grabs the ledge, in which case he gets 1 back).
For the record, we have playtested him using different airdodge restrictions such as the ones you guys are suggesting, and they all made him super easy to gimp. The current airdodge system works well in tandem with his Yoshi-style (i.e. one chance) recovery.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
^ Well look at that, it's already been tested lol. Well, with all that being said, I'm personally fine with ROBs recovery the way it is. Like I said, if anything were done, I would say remove the airdodge at the last boost, but I suppose it's been tried and tested out so his recovery will more or less stay the same- which once again, I'm completely fine with lol
leelue
Smash Lord
Ah, see I thought Jiang knew what was up.
As in, I thought this was a legitimate question being posed by the pmbr.
Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have gotten involved.
Well then.
Back to procrastinating.
As in, I thought this was a legitimate question being posed by the pmbr.
Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have gotten involved.
Well then.
Back to procrastinating.
Cubelarooso
Smash Lord
I'm not a fan of keeping vBrawl bair, but that's just as much an issue with the redundant animation as it is the recovery application.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I agree with Cubela here. vBrawl R.O.B.'s bair, R.O.B.'s dair, Ivy's uair, Lucario's dair, and Ivy's dair are quite garish as moves and I don't think anything like them would be even considered if these characters were made in Melee's original development.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Well...Rob is not an original melee character. I hate him but I surely think it's silly to give him anything else right now. What would you do? give him the experimental Wario Bair but with longer range? Give him a Wolf-like Dair?...that would not fit him at all and it would just make him look even stupider....just keep him how he is.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I would just remove the momentum change the moves have :V
Archangel
Smash Hero
Why? Well...I can actually see it being removed from Rob since he doesn't need it. Ivy could probably keep hers though I mean...why not. Falco/Fox can Shine stall after all.
.
9Kplus1
Smash Master
Ivy's Dair is incredible
Stop trolling =[
Stop trolling =[
jalued
Smash Lord
Any chance of a stream today? or the second demo?
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