Project M Social Thread

[tripwire]

I agree with Bair getting a buff although i wouldn't like an experimentally different Marth. Even if Marth's tier placement has gone down from melee he is still a beast.

 

[`dazrin]

I would agree with this however it's just to big of a hypocritical statement. Why are other characters being buffed to cover weaknesses and others not? I can except that some characters will naturally be ****ty compared to others. However this isn't naturally being selected at all. People are choosing to make SS-tiers out of their favorites and purposely bypassing other characters. it's personal selection.

I seriously don't understand how you guys are criticizing the PMBR for bias when you've literally been crying for buffs on your main for like 20 pages now.. lol, just saying.

(Like some other PMBR members have already noted,) None of the top/high tiers are getting/ have gotten any game-breaking buffs guys. lol marth is gonna remain more or less the same just like everyone else up there. :D

I mean, the whole reason why the PMBR gives adjustments to their "favorites" is because those "favorites" were low-mid tier characters in melee, and they aim to bring everyone in the cast up to a level where those low-mid tier characters are viable for tournament play and can compete with the top/high tier cast. Which is why you see buffs on bowser, toonlink, link, zelda, etc. Those characters weren't very good in comparison to the top/high tier cast, which is why they receive buffs. They don't just buff anyone they want because they want their favorite to be the best; in fact, the constant cry for buffs on marth gives me the impression that you think this way. And none of those adjustments on the lower tiers are even finalized! "Everything is subject to change" They're still testing this stuff out. Do you see any significant changes on the rest of the top/high tier cast? No. (and please don't bring up that peach and falcon are "SO MUCH GREATER" now, because they really are still more or less the same character, as others before me have stated already)

The PMBR has done an excellent job with the project thus far with their designs. So relax, you've voiced your opinions on marth and I'm sure they've heard them by now. If they find that marth is truly in need of some buffs, they will adjust him accordingly.

 

[AeonClock]

Marth is very easy to buff. All you have to do is just boost the KB growth of bair. And sorry for the confusion, but I am only talking about in respects of KO power for something like Fox and Falco's bairs. (I was using Falcon's knee as an example of a killing aerial that doesn't meteor/spike; something Marth lacks)

And Bair is very mediocre in its current state and it would compliment his move set extremely well if it were enhanced. You'd be lying to yourself if you didn't think it wouldn't help alleviate marth's primary issues without changing his fundamentals. Bair buff would be simple and beautiful.

I was never arguing against buffing Marth. I agree that his bair could use a growth increase. I also agree that his usmash could benefit from faster start up and that his dsmash would be better with reduced endlag. I also wouldn't mind if Marth stays the same. He doesn't NEED anything else. He's always going to be upper/middle tier no matter what. The only reason why you and Spam are pushing so hard for these buffs, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're afraid of Marth falling from his top/upper tier place on the tier list. If that's seriously the reason for your apparent indigence at the thought of Marth not receiving any buffs, you really need to re-evaluate why you play Marth in the first place. I've heard arguments like, "If ZSS or Ike or Falcon can do 'blah blah blah', why even choose Marth? Why not just pick ZZS since she's a better character?"
Well in that case, why play any lower tiers? Why does Taj play Mewtwo? Why does AXE play Pikachu? Why does Fly play ICs? Why? Because they want to. Because they like what they can do with those characters and they like their playstyle. I like marth, and I'll play him whether he gets buffed or not because no other character can play like he plays.

All I'm saying is to be patient. If Marth gets buffs, whoopdeedoo. If he doesn't, he's still Marth. He'll still do what Marth's do. What else can you ask of him?

Edit:
@Archangel: I'm not trying to start an internet argument or anything, but it seems like it's a trend for you to throw out statements without providing valid evidence to support those statements. I think this is one of the main reasons why some people see your posts as juvenile and unthoughtful. No offense. Just my 2-cents.

 

[Archangel]

I seriously don't understand how you guys are criticizing the PMBR for bias when you've literally been crying for buffs on your main for like 20 pages now.. lol, just saying.

(Like some other PMBR members have already noted,) None of the top/high tiers are getting/ have gotten any game-breaking buffs guys. lol marth is gonna remain more or less the same just like everyone else up there. :D

I mean, the whole reason why the PMBR gives adjustments to their "favorites" is because those "favorites" were low-mid tier characters in melee, and they aim to bring everyone in the cast up to a level where those low-mid tier characters are viable for tournament play and can compete with the top/high tier cast. Which is why you see buffs on bowser, toonlink, link, zelda, etc. Those characters weren't very good in comparison to the top/high tier cast, which is why they receive buffs. They don't just buff anyone they want because they want their favorite to be the best; in fact, the constant cry for buffs on marth gives me the impression that you think this way. And none of those adjustments on the lower tiers are even finalized! "Everything is subject to change" They're still testing this stuff out. Do you see any significant changes on the rest of the top/high tier cast? No. (and please don't bring up that peach and falcon are "SO MUCH GREATER" now, because they really are still more or less the same character, as others before me have stated already)

The PMBR has done an excellent job with the project thus far with their designs. So relax, you've voiced your opinions on marth and I'm sure they've heard them by now. If they find that marth is truly in need of some buffs, they will adjust him accordingly.

First I'd like to say 20 pages is nothing at all. Go back a 1 or 2 thousand pages and read all the **** that has passed by. Buff is such a strong word too. When people hear buff and nerf it raises hair. There is a difference in the way that Peach/Falcon is buffed and how Kirby and Link will be. Nobody is Asking to raise Marth to S-tier or even A-tier. The fact is all the reasons why he was A-tier are nullified.

@ AeonClock You are wrong. I could actually give a **** if he does. It's not my job to care though I am not involved in the project. I've already stated more than 1 time that I'll probably switch to Pit. My name change, The fact that Pit is now located where my characters are...all of this means I am preparing for PM. The only issue I have is the logic in buffing characters that do just as well or better than Marth without giving Marth any changes. It's a suggestion afterall that is being made. Nobody has even said they should be added but testing it at some point couldn't hurt.

Anyway....what has needed to be said has been said already. Everyone's got the concerns off their chest. I'm sure it'll be looked at down the road.

 

[`dazrin]

First I'd like to say 20 pages is nothing at all. Go back a 1 or 2 thousand pages and read all the **** that has passed by. Buff is such a strong word too. When people hear buff and nerf it raises hair. There is a difference in the way that Peach/Falcon is buffed and how Kirby and Link will be. Nobody is Asking to raise Marth to S-tier or even A-tier. The fact is all the reasons why he was A-tier are nullified.

@ AeonClock You are wrong. I could actually give a **** if he does. It's not my job to care though I am not involved in the project. I've already stated more than 1 time that I'll probably switch to Pit. My name change, The fact that Pit is now located where my characters are...all of this means I am preparing for PM. The only issue I have is the logic in buffing characters that do just as well or better than Marth without giving Marth any changes. It's a suggestion afterall that is being made. Nobody has even said they should be added but testing it at some point couldn't hurt.

For the record, spam, I can say that I actually DID go back 1 or 2 thousand pages and read all the **** that has passed by before ever saying a word in this thread. I even mentioned it in my first post here also I agree buff is a strong word, which is why i replaced it with the word "adjustment" many times in my post

 

[AeonClock]

@ AeonClock You are wrong. I could actually give a **** if he does. It's not my job to care though I am not involved in the project. I've already stated more than 1 time that I'll probably switch to Pit. My name change, The fact that Pit is now located where my characters are...all of this means I am preparing for PM. The only issue I have is the logic in buffing characters that do just as well or better than Marth without giving Marth any changes. It's a suggestion afterall that is being made. Nobody has even said they should be added but testing it at some point couldn't hurt.

Then you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. We know this. We're all thinking the same thing so we can all shut the **** up about this and move on to more productive topics.

That being said, what characters are you guys looking forward to the most and what strategies or tactics do you think will be most effective with them?

 

[cmart]

Hopefully we've all calmed down enough to move on now, eh?

 

[Xebenkeck]

Marth'll be fine yall, lets simmer down a bit.

 

[`dazrin]

Then you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. We know this. We're all thinking the same thing so we can all shut the **** up about this and move on to more productive topics.

That being said, what characters are you guys looking forward to the most and what strategies or tactics do you think will be most effective with them?

^ Edgeguarding with pit is good times :D his mobility and offstage presence is very good, with a good projectile to boot. Aarow juggling is really neat too

Really fun character to play in general with a sexy recovery lol

(not that this is a more productive topic, but yeah really looking forward to playing around with him again )

-And of course toonlink, cuz he's just that awesome. Looking forward to doing the shadic combo with the dthrow->aarow->up-b lol. Those bombs just need to match the height of his fullhop+doublejump when smash thrown upwards (like in melee) and need to fall just a bit faster so he can do the same bomb tricks he does in melee not to mention it could make bomb jumping for the little guy a bit easier

 

[Archangel]

Then you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. We know this. We're all thinking the same thing so we can all shut the **** up about this and move on to more productive topics.

That being said, what characters are you guys looking forward to the most and what strategies or tactics do you think will be most effective with them?

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't take it for granted everyone knows/thinks the same as me. If everyone thought the same then there would be no reason for forums like this .

I personally don't think it's a secret as to who I am looking forward to the most. My name and my previous name should be a dead give away. I am hoping Pit ends up being a pretty balanced character and with his good recovery may managed to peak at Sheik tier.

 

[Shadic]

Hey guys. Maybe if Marth miraculously ends up terribad we can do something. Let's hold off on the thesis paper arguments until you guys have Demo 2 or something. (We're working on it, part of the reason we're staying out of this... Whatever it is.)

 

[Deleted member]

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't take it for granted everyone knows/thinks the same as me. If everyone thought the same then there would be no reason for forums like this .

I personally don't think it's a secret as to who I am looking forward to the most. My name and my previous name should be a dead give away. I am hoping Pit ends up being a pretty balanced character and with his good recovery may managed to peak at Sheik tier.

Pit is garbage. Stay Marth. Going from C tier to D tier isn't an improvement.

 

[AeonClock]

Well Fly made him look Godly. Why is he garbage? ._.

 

[Archangel]

Pit isn't garbage you just have to get a handle on him. If he uses his tools he has the ability to fight anyone on relatively close terms.

 

[Spoon~]

A character is only as good as the person using them.

 

[Archangel]

A character is only as good as the person using them.

true enough. Still The best possible Roy won't be beating the best possible Fox anytime this century. Some characters are more capable of winning at a high enough level than others and players skill can't stop that. Can you possibly win a with Pikachu or even Mewtwo....yeah you could. Can you possibly win with Roy or G&W...nope.

 

[Spoon~]

true enough. Still The best possible Roy won't be beating the best possible Fox anytime this century. Some characters are more capable of winning at a high enough level than others and players skill can't stop that. Can you possibly win a with Pikachu or even Mewtwo....yeah you could. Can you possibly win with Roy or G&W...nope.

Roy and GaW were balls though, hopefully there wont be any comparable characters when all of this is said and done.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Roy vs Fox isn't that bad for Roy actually.

Roy vs Sheik on the other hand...

 

[`dazrin]

Pit is garbage. Stay Marth. Going from C tier to D tier isn't an improvement.

Umbreon, have you played the latest version of pit in the closed alpha? From my experience, I found that Pit is a pretty decent character actually. Of course, I'm not really what you would call a "high-level player" and I only picked him up and played him for a few hours, so maybe I'm missing something.

I found that he has really good mobility with the use of his glide+aerials, which are really good for both combos and kills. Dair and nair are sick combo moves with fair bair and uair are half decent combo moves that kill at laterish percentages (although bair is more of a straight up kill move). His aarows are a really good projectile since you have alot of control over them with a relatively short cooldown. Fsmash and Dsmash are decent kill moves, and usmash kills at much higher percentages, but mostly just a combo move. His downthrow chains into his aerials very nicely and of course- his recovery is amazing. Edgeguarding with aarows/fair/bair is pretty easy to do, and of course up-b is a solid kill move, although I found it a little hard to combo into. Overall, he can easily rack up damage, but he has a bit of trouble comboing into a straight up kill. Kinda just found myself either edgeguarding or spamming uair and bair until the person finally flew off the stage for good. Not the best insight ever, but thats just what i observed while playing him, and he didn't seem that bad of a character to me, and was alot of fun to play!

Do you think you could give some insight as to why you think pit is garbage? Idunno, he felt pretty good to me haha

 

[Archangel]

Roy and GaW were balls though, hopefully there wont be any comparable characters when all of this is said and done.

They are balls and even a good player with them will be very very good balls.

Roy vs Fox isn't that bad for Roy actually.

Roy vs Sheik on the other hand...

Roy vs Fox is extremely gay. can fair juggle to fsmash fox and you have a CG on him on him at low% but only like 3 people can't CG fox lol. Still you are right...Sheik vs Roy is like 75-25.

Umbreon, have you played the latest version of pit in the closed alpha? From my experience, I found that Pit is a pretty decent character actually. Of course, I'm not really what you would call a "high-level player" and I only picked him up and played him for a few hours, so maybe I'm missing something.

I found that he has really good mobility with the use of his glide, and his aerials are really good for both combos and kills. His aarows are a really good projectile since you have alot of control over them with a relatively short cooldown. Fsmash and Dsmash are decent kill moves, and usmash kills at much higher percentages, but mostly just a combo move. his downthrow chains into his aerials very nicely and of course- his recovery is amazing.

Do you think you could give some insight as to why you think pit is garbage? Idunno, he felt pretty good to me haha

I can understand both your point of views. When I first tested him out months ago I had umbreon's feeling at first. I after realizing some basic things about him though I realized with some fixes he can be very good. The only downside I can see for him might be his weight and the fact that there are some heavy and very powerful characters that can keep up with him on the ground, in the air, or both. Aside from that he should be ok.

 

[9Kplus1]

Roy and GaW were balls though, hopefully there wont be any comparable characters when all of this is said and done.

G&W goes 100-0 with Falco

 

[JCaesar]

http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar streaming P:M now

 

[Ecks]

Isn't keeping Brawl's nB over Melee's already a good buff?

I don't think so. IMO It's kind of an equal trade off. Melee's was faster than brawl's, while brawl's is slower but can turn around. And it's not like people use neutral b anyway, so it's not like it suddenly makes Falcon any better.

And thanks for clarifying GD06.

 

[Wampa]

Sorry ive been out of it for awhile whats the demo status???

 

[UltiMario]

Demo 2 by the end of March.

 

[I R MarF]

The only reason why you and Spam are pushing so hard for these buffs, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're afraid of Marth falling from his top/upper tier place on the tier list.

I said many times it was mainly due to the hypocrisy of buffing other characters (and the argument about "it was in vanilla brawl, the just left it!" is dumb because they are supposed to be their MELEE iterations, any positive change, whether natural to their brawl versions or not, is still a buff)

However, while I fear Marth will be worse, it has nothing to do with his ranking on the tier list. Its his playability. I'm looking forward to the new characters in P:M both to play with and against... using Marth.

It would be frustrating and dissapointing to have a lot of difficulty capitalizing off of a character's strengths and Marth would have to face that the fact his main strength is edge guarding and scoring low percent KOs on fast fallers... but no one has a bad recovery and everyone is very capable of killing without being a fast faller, so Marth's two strengths are nullfied and his main weakness: difficulty chaining attacks at high percent. Is practically enhanced.

 

[9Kplus1]

Project:Hentai will be replacing the second release, actually.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

I'm down with that.

 

[GP&B]

but no one has a bad recovery

Falco
Wolf (don't know how good his is but it doesn't seem completely different)
Toon Link
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Lucas (IIRC, he doesn't have zap jumping anymore)
Ness
Wario (if he hasn't been changed beyond Shoulder Bash and his vBrawl UpB)
Snake

Mind you, I also didn't consider recoveries that got good distance but are still pitifully predictable (D3, Luigi, Zelda, Mario, and Fox) and good chances are, I probably missed a few other characters with bad recoveries. And I'm not necessarily saying they're all bad recoveries. It's that Marth should have next to no trouble edgeguarding any of them.

Can't comment on Ivysaur or Olimar and I don't know if ZSS is getting any changes.

Seriously though, you have said this numerous times yet you've never provided any examples.

As for the worry over Marth's P:M matchups, stop theorizing over them. I don't think anyone can get even close to a good idea of how good any of the improved characters and newcomers are. We can evaluate where Melee top/high tiers stand after we can actually play P:M.

 

[9Kplus1]

Wolf has pretty versatile recovery. It really isn't that bad.

 

[GP&B]

I don't know what they did with sideB which is why I wasn't too sure. I wanted to add Ike on there, but QD walljump/rebound seems to correct his deadzone issue somewhat (if you're charging it before you fall below the ledge level and you're on a level like YS).

 

[Mr.Pickle]

The whole theory smashing on marth or any character really seems fine to me, I mean what else is there to do, might even get a good idea out of it, just don't make such a big deal about it. Its all well and good to give your opinion about something, but when you start throwing insults around, making unreasonable demands, and just bringing some real hateful energy in here, thats when we need to pump the brakes. That goes for the pmbr duders too, there a lot of times when people on this thread can take things out of control, but no matter how dumb they get, don't lose you're cool and do the same thing they're doing. It doesn't matter if you're right and they're wrong, its always -1 respect point when you start being hateful, even if its somewhat justifiable.

 

[Archangel]

I was almost 100% sure that topic was over.............................................................................................................................................................

 

[9Kplus1]

I don't know what they did with sideB which is why I wasn't too sure. I wanted to add Ike on there, but QD walljump/rebound seems to correct his deadzone issue somewhat (if you're charging it before you fall below the ledge level and you're on a level like YS).

Scarring and the new sweetspot mechanics make a huge difference in Wolf's recovery, when compared to other spacies. Conversely, Ike, if more than three feet away from the stage, is free, not to mention that his recovery is really predictable (unless you're like me and have to relearn wall jumping every match).

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I was almost 100% sure that topic was over.............................................................................................................................................................

eh yeah I'm a bit late but whatever, I felt the need to post that in case a topic about another character happens, and it probably will eventually.

 

[AeonClock]

Ness also has a decent recovery because of the speed of PKT1.

 

[MonkUnit]

this discussion

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Lol oh its not that bad, this thread has seen much worse.

 

[kaizo13]

The whole theory smashing on marth or any character really seems fine to me, I mean what else is there to do, might even get a good idea out of it, just don't make such a big deal about it. Its all well and good to give your opinion about something, but when you start throwing insults around, making unreasonable demands, and just bringing some real hateful energy in here, thats when we need to pump the brakes. That goes for the pmbr duders too, there a lot of times when people on this thread can take things out of control, but no matter how dumb they get, don't lose you're cool and do the same thing they're doing. It doesn't matter if you're right and they're wrong, its always -1 respect point when you start being hateful, even if its somewhat justifiable.

I agree to some degree........but

"give Marth a fast and safe killing aerial cuz the entire cast has one."
"buff Marth because everyone else in his tier got buffed"

that's just plain laughable bad game design. period. Marth/ Falcon/Peach are not the same characters. they each have their own tools/advantages/disadvantages.....just because marth doesn't share a certain aspect with fellow tier members doesn't mean he doesn't outshine them in others

 

[Jonny Westside]

You guys should release info about a newcomer for demo 2 every other week or so to build up hype IMO :V Like unveil the new roster each week, one character at a time