Project M Social Thread

[Kink-Link5]

If Ivy's dair was a special move I would agree with you. I am inclined not to however, on the grounds that it acts in a special way and has rules applied to it that don't apply to any other regular aerial move in the game, but obstinately is an aerial in the first place.

Imagine, if you would, that Kirby's F-smash, that move where he does a little hop forward round house, allowed him to go off the ledge while using the move. Or, more extremely, if Olimar's F-tilt did so. Sure it "Makes sense," in a literal context, but not within the already defined rules that govern moves like that.

 

[jalued]

If Ivy's dair was a special move I would agree with you. I am inclined not to however, on the grounds that it acts in a special way and has rules applied to it that don't apply to any other regular aerial move in the game, but obstinately is an aerial in the first place.

Imagine, if you would, that Kirby's F-smash, that move where he does a little hop forward round house, allowed him to go off the ledge while using the move. Or, more extremely, if Olimar's F-tilt did so.

Falcon's fsmash moves him forward slightly, and his dash attack can be cancelled into a wall jump. But yes, it is not following the general trend of melee moves

But still... ivysaur is still in development, and variety is the spice of life (apparently)

 

[Kink-Link5]

It may have a lot to do with my idea for her down B as well, since it is also something that would benefit her recovery and would be a unique move as well.

 

[9Kplus1]

Any chance of the second demo today?

Only Project:Hentai, here's the download link.

If Ivy's dair was a special move I would agree with you. I am inclined not to however, on the grounds that it acts in a special way and has rules applied to it that don't apply to any other regular aerial move in the game, but obstinately is an aerial in the first place.

Imagine, if you would, that Kirby's F-smash, that move where he does a little hop forward round house, allowed him to go off the ledge while using the move. Or, more extremely, if Olimar's F-tilt did so. Sure it "Makes sense," in a literal context, but not within the already defined rules that govern moves like that.

To be fair, I agree that Ivysaur's Dair is out of place; however, its utility to Ivysaur (and for that matter, ROB) is just invaluable, imo.

EDIT: eh, invaluable is an overstatement. Neither ROB nor Ivy's Dairs hold much of an impact on the game. Why change them if they at least have some use?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Pertaining to utility, what difference in that regard would be:

Ivy's dair lobbing her up slightly

and

Ivy's dair having no momentum change, but the player doing a rising dair

?


I think the move would actually be quite safer if the translation being done was her jump or DJ than halting any vertical movement she might already be in.

 

[9Kplus1]

Stalling while airborne ?_?

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm just not seeing how that is of any Utility though. At least not one that wouldn't be better covered by a new special move.



Maybe there's a miscommunication on the use of the word "Utility" here.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Having an explosion not affect your momentum whatsoever would be far more nonsensical than the way it is now, even if it is different than most other moves. Zelda's uair is a fireball btw not an explosion so don't bring that up.

And as for your ledge example, DK (and probably Diddy in the future) was given a dash attack that goes off of ledges.

I don't see why having moves with unique characteristics is a bad thing.

 

[Archangel]

If Ivy's dair was a special move I would agree with you. I am inclined not to however, on the grounds that it acts in a special way and has rules applied to it that don't apply to any other regular aerial move in the game, but obstinately is an aerial in the first place.

Imagine, if you would, that Kirby's F-smash, that move where he does a little hop forward round house, allowed him to go off the ledge while using the move. Or, more extremely, if Olimar's F-tilt did so. Sure it "Makes sense," in a literal context, but not within the already defined rules that govern moves like that.

hmmm...well yeah if you put it that way I can't disagree with you. Maybe it should be made a special move.

 

[DVDV28]

Or maybe Ivysaur could get something unique.

Guys, it's not a big deal left as a dair.

 

[Shadic]

And as for your ledge example, DK (and probably Diddy in the future) was given a dash attack that goes off of ledges.

Kirby's goes off ledges in Melee.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I think it's a great move, I just think it would be a better aerial in two senses if it didn't change her momentum.

I don't think it should be a special move, but that instead a different move with a different animation and different use, but similar effect, only stronger, on her recovery, should be.

I've talked about Petal dance a lot, but I don't want to sound like I'm whoring out my own ideas for new moves. I would agree with it if it wasn't something I thought of, but I'm too modest to make a big deal out of it, especially because I already tried and have asked for input and didn't get any.

 

[I R MarF]

If possible, Ivy's dair could have a property that could reset falling momentum during the explosion similar to Fox and Falco's shine. This would be great for two reasons:

1. The move would have excellent offstage use like Fox's shine minus the jump cancel. An edge guarding option like this would especially benefit a character who has a weak horizontal offstage game.

2. A vertical stall seems more useful for a tether recoverer than horizontal mobility because you want to recover low anyway.

Its better to strengthen whats already there versus making sure the character doesn't have one weakness.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If possible, Ivy's dair could have a property that could reset falling momentum during the explosion similar to Fox and Falco's shine. This would be great for two reasons:

1. The move would have excellent offstage use like Fox's shine minus the jump cancel. An edge guarding option like this would especially benefit a character who has a weak horizontal offstage game.

I disagree that it has excellent off stage use, and I especially disagree that Ivysaur has a weak horizontal offstage game. Bair is an amazing move with good range and weak knockback and no damage. It has utility as a spacing move and a great edgeguard.

A rising DJ dair explosion akin to Falco's would be, to me, more practical, and more applicable as a move.

2. A vertical stall seems more useful for a tether recoverer than horizontal mobility because you want to recover low anyway.

I would like to know how Ivy stalling would "Help" her recovery.

Its better to strengthen whats already there versus making sure the character doesn't have one weakness.

Ivy's dair is a good move and not a weakness, and these ideas, I feel, would do the exact opposite of strengthening the move.

__________________________________________________​

If the momentum change was made optional with the move I would have much less of a problem with it, but that sounds like something more for Brawl Minus than Project Melee.

 

[PGH Carroll]

will Demo2 have ZSS?

 

[Mattnumbers]

If by ZSS you mean Mario then yes, I can assure you it will.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Get use to Mario dittos, because that's going to be Project M GF's.

No wait that's Zelda dittos.


I just realised ther eisn't a tanuki pokemon that owuld be cool if it wasn't for gamerfreadsa terribl edesign team making bad designs out of good concepts recently

god I hate typing things 10 times.

 

[Archangel]

Hybrid Mario isn't That good. He's B+ or A- tier which is good but not broken tier like Zelda.

 

[Kink-Link5]

It isn't the hybid as much as it is the side B that is a godsend for him.

 

[Giygacoal]

I just realised ther eisn't a tanuki pokemon that owuld be cool if it wasn't for gamerfreadsa terribl edesign team making bad designs out of good concepts recently.

...Example?

I can easily call bullsh*t on a few gen 1 designs. Don't hate the new stuff.

 

[9Kplus1]

Um... Genies, Rank, Burungeru (it's pretty ****ing heavy for ghost-jellyfish thing), Scrafty, Volcarona, Druddigon, Pokabu (GF wouldn't let us get @ that self-cooking bacon), and Dream World -- should I go on? Volt Switch however, will always be the best example of crap design in Gen V.

But, yeah, regarding Pokemon design at least, not much was good about Gen V's.

 

[Giygacoal]

Um... Genies, Rank, Burungeru (it's pretty ****ing heavy for ghost-jellyfish thing), Scrafty, Volcarona, Druddigon, Pokabu (GF wouldn't let us get @ that self-cooking bacon), and Dream World -- should I go on? Volt Switch however, will always be the best example of crap design in Gen V.

But, yeah, regarding Pokemon design at least, not much was good about Gen V's.

Gen V is good if you accept it as something new rather than judge it through nostalgia lens. I think the designs are fine. If gen v was our frame of reference as the first generation, and gen 1 was in place of gen v, I bet you would think gen 1 has crap design. Since I have a little artistic taste, I can fairly explain the pros and cons of both gen 1 and gen 5. Actually, I can point out many problems with every generation besides gen 3. I'm not saying gen v is perfect, but to ignore the fact that pokemon was never perfect to begin with is just plain ignorance.

The genies aren't too bad. I'm not sure if you're judging them by the fact that they look too similar or by the plain appearances, but they are supposed to be related, so it makes sense that they look the way they do. Also, they're at least better than gen 4's lake trio, and by analysis they are just as similar to each other as the regis.
What's wrong with Jellicent, Volcarona, and Scrafty? They look fine to me. You're implying that Jellicent is too heavy... First of all, why does that even matter? How could that possibly affect your judgment? Second, nobody said that ghost jellyfish have to be light. I would assume that they have a bit of density for the sake of hydrodynamics; if he was make of helium, then he'd float too much. Volcarona is an especially badass looking bug, and Scrafty looks fine regularly (the sprite is kind of sucky though). Scrafty's my favorite pokemon of all time, and I see no problem with him. I take offense from people who say my favorite pokemon is an example of terrible design. Tepig is nothing great, but he's certainly not a bad design. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a bad design.

How is Volt Switch an example of bad design? It was explained in the show how it happens if you think the idea is odd...

 

[`dazrin]

are we really going to have a pokemon generation argument in the project:m thread? lol, at least the whole marth thing was related to p:m lol

 

[Archangel]

Arguing such a thing is no way to hide the fact that you are still a virgin.

 

[Starscream]

are we really going to have a pokemon generation argument in the project:m thread? lol, at least the whole marth thing was related to p:m lol

It's part of the Project M thread cycle. Eventually someone brings up Pokemon and we get a few pages of people complaining about new vs old Pokemon designs or a bunch of people arguing about competitive Pokemon. Par for the course.

 

[`dazrin]

Ah. It seemed very out of place for me at first. Thanks for clearing that up scream lol

 

[DVDV28]

Gen 2 > All

 

[9Kplus1]

Gen IV gave us Lopunny

Therefore, Gen IV > All

 

[MaxThunder]

Gen 2 gave us Ampharos... nuff' said...

... playing several battles in a row with someone good is really fun... when you come up with counter strategies for the counter strategies countering the counter strategies to your original counter strategies...

 

[Deleted member]

a bunch of misguided assumptions

Gen 5 is awful from a design standpoint. visuals aside, gen 5 represents the first real power creep in the game and it's a MASSIVE one. the difference of viability makes gen 5 amazingly linear despite having more pokemon than any other gen and leads to an actual loss in variety. this has tons of little secondary effects that are also awful ("outdated" pokemon, irregular bannings, imbalanced strategies, inability to check/counter) as well as the new team preview ruining the asymmetrical information nature of the game, horribly centralized approaches/team concepts, etc.

gen 5 is like if every character was PM squirtle. i mean you can say it's "fun" and i guess you can technically compete at it but that doesn't say **** really.

 

[leelue]

I have to say that float is right about one thing: generation 3 was far and away the best expansion (both mechanically and aesthetically).

Gen1 and 5 are Both terrible, but i say Generation V beats Gen I because;
*it actually had a spread of types
*normal pairs with things other than flying
*flying as a standalone
*gen1 clearly had no inclination to balance moves across types.
*gen1 grandfathered the rest of the games to have nonsensical and unbalanced weak&res
*gen1 had the absolute worst pokemon name in history. NOTHING is worse than Mr Mime.
*or... you know naming a pokemon with an actual word: Electrode. That's not even a BAD pun.
*if the designers had any idea that they'd implement breeding, kangaskan was clearly trolling us all.
*the original design for poison implies the playtesters were infants with no concept of time.
*mega kick isn't a fighting move? Are kicks instead used for courtship in Japan?
*if EVs and IVs aren't the most tedium inducing things in the world...**** that system. To death. I will never forgive gen1 for that (but to be fair, gen2 had a chance to make it right but didn't. At least each subsequent generation apologized for it and gave us things like the macho brace.)

Seriously. Gen 1 is the redheaded stepchild of pokemon.
Any metagame imbalances that resulted from gen 5 are things I wouldn't know about. I never kept track of professional pokemon play after gen 4, so I can only talk about the pokemon themselves, not the implications.
If anything has anything to do with the triple-stat boosting moves, let me know because I am curious.

Gen2 gave us two types. Sure, they didn't actually DO anything yet, but the expansion from johto to kanto made this game a true sequel. Also, it gave us breeding.
But
Thanks to this game, I'm worried about ever swimming in the ocean. I can replicate the tentacool cry note for note thanks to the watery hell that was in this game.

Gen3 is god. I will never, Ever get tired of gen 3. I would **** it's **** so many times I'd have a **** shaped indentation in my now perfectly polished teeth.

Gen4 gave us attack and special attack for certain "type crosssovers" to be possible (hitmonchan cough). Unfortunately, this accelerated the homogenization of pokemon further; there is rapidly becoming nothing left to differentiate attack and special attack. Volt switch is a great example of the repercussions.
The world design is absolutely phenomenal though. And if U-turn is in fact in gen4, gen4 has my favorite move of all time.

 

[standardtoaster]

*looks at pm thread for current discussion*

 

[leelue]

Mind you, I don't like either one of our generational bookends. They're the Pirates of the Caribbean 3 and 4 of pokemon games.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

lol toasty I'm stealing that GIF.

 

[`dazrin]

lol toast

All I have to say about Gen1 is: Only 3 Ghost types? All of which share a type with poison? Psychic OP? lol

But I love all pokemon :] I am not generation discriminatory

 

[MaxThunder]

Magnezone is one of the ugliest pokemon ever...

 

[9Kplus1]

Magnezone is cuter than Yanmega

**** you

 

[Juushichi]

This thread sucks.

 

[GP&B]

This thread sucks.

Ye p.

 

[MaxThunder]

Magnezone is cuter than Yanmega

**** you

that thing is no electric pokemon... does not count...

it also doesn't have a penis on it's head...