Project M Social Thread

[Stevo]

I don't even play pokemon since the first Gen, but I actually own the best pokemon game in existence.

-Buy the Gen II Pokemon the Board Game (really hard to find)

-Take the Pokemon Tokens and the level up counters from that game.

-Buy 2 Gen I Pokemon the Board Game (easy to find) or just 1 and buy an extra packs of the cards.

-re-balance the item card and event card ratios to your liking (they are not well balanced imo).

-Play the first board game with the Gen II tokens (you can either include the Gen II pokemon or leave them out for Gen I only) and allow leveling like in the second board game.

-Change the pvp rules a bit. When you engage another play in a fight, battle the first pokemon as normal. Loser get's to choose to send out a new pokemon or surrender at that point. This allows for some epic battles, but doesn't let stronger players decimate a struggling players team (as they can forfeit after 1 knockout.)

When you reach the end, you must beat the elite 4 in order one after the other, not just 1 to win.


I also added a deck of Encounters, which I made with a blank deck of cards. This is not really needed, but I enjoy it. It would be like like meet a bird trainer and he will fly you somewhere, or meet team rocket and fight them or whatever you want. The event cards can get repetitive after a while, so I made these to replace some of the event squares on the board. Oh, and I added a bunch of new locations such as Safari Zone and such with Velcro so they can be removed if not wanted.


The game usually gets really intense.

 

[9Kplus1]

I don't even play pokemon since the first Gen, but I actually own the best pokemon game in existence.

I can't believe that there was no mention of Pokemon Snap in any part of your post. Disgraceful...

Anyway, this Project:M thing seems to be pretty cool. Let's talk more about that!

 

[Stevo]

I have nothing against Pokemon Snap.

but playing the (modified) pokemon board game with 3-7 other people is too much fun.

and I have actually tried all the new gen pokemon games, just don't really play them much.

 

[`dazrin]

What's project:m? Is that the new Pokemon on 3DS that's coming out? :o

 

[Yeroc]

So I hear that there's this new game coming out...

It's supposed to be like Melee....

Or something....

 

[`dazrin]

you mean, digimon melee?

 

[Stevo]

did you guys even SEE what happened when we talked about Project M in here recently?


why would you want that.

 

[Ecks]

For a time, I would watch this thread go overboard and just laugh. At times I would even join in.

But now this is just tiring. But hey, at least it shows people can't live without this thread.

That may not be a good thing though.

 

[Shadic]

did you guys even SEE what happened when we talked about Project M in here recently?

I think Mewtwo should have an automatic L cancel. I mean obviously we're replacing Mario with him right? Even their names start and end on the same letter.

 

[MonkUnit]

For a time, I would watch this thread go overboard and just laugh. At times I would even join in.

But now this is just tiring. But hey, at least it shows people can't live without this thread.

That may not be a good thing though.

No, it shows that people have become friends with other people in this thread. Rather than taking it to an actual social thread in another section of the forum, they choose to turn the Project M thread into a social thread. Or you guys could start a Skype/AIM/etc chat so you can be social there.

 

[hotdogturtle]

...At this point I think I'd rather have this thread be locked, and the only new posts via mods like Yeroc are official PMBR announcements about the demo, and unlock the thread when the demo comes out.

We're repeating the cycles in this thread, but it's more like a spiral because the discussions get worse and worse each time they come up.

 

[Ecks]

Nah, no need to close it. It's not like it's going crazy in here. And it helps wait for the demo.

No, it shows that people have become friends with other people in this thread. Rather than taking it to an actual social thread in another section of the forum, they choose to turn the Project M thread into a social thread. Or you guys could start a Skype/AIM/etc chat so you can be social there.

Not a bad idea. Everyone around here is pretty cool. But I still think the thread gets like this because of the hype.

Also, Mewtwario confirmed for project M by Shadic.

 

[jalued]

No, it shows that people have become friends with other people in this thread. Rather than taking it to an actual social thread in another section of the forum, they choose to turn the Project M thread into a social thread. Or you guys could start a Skype/AIM/etc chat so you can be social there.

or you could give us something to actually talk about...

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wow I'll be sure to never mention anything ever again because it leads to this.





.

 

[Shadic]

or you could give us something to actually talk about...

What's more dangerous in designing a game - An overpowered character or an underpowered one?

I think overly powerful characters are more dangerous to a game's playability.

 

[jalued]

What's more dangerous in designing a game - An overpowered character or an underpowered one?

I think overly powerful characters are more dangerous to a game's playability.

Overly powerful characters are far more dangerous because it set's the bar higher for every other character, and can lead to overbuffing of other characters.

An underpowered character will not affect the competitive gameplay much, because players will not use them. They can also be buffed in the future. It is important to have a standard to balance around, when designing anything

 

[MaxThunder]

meta knight or ganondorf... easy to see which one is the more dangerous one...

 

[leelue]

Ganon:m
It's not even a question.

Ok, how about
What would it take for a character to be good if that character had bad aerials? Is it possible to have a balanced character like this?
At most, two objectively good aerials. The rest would be akin to melee DK's fair or melee kirby's... aerials. Melee pikachu's bair and dair. Roy's dair...

 

[MonkUnit]

Well, considering the majority of smash is aerial combo'ing, I'd imagine that character would be very different from the rest of the cast.

 

[standardtoaster]

Roy's aerials were relatively bad. Aside from uair.

 

[leelue]

Mhm, and he was close to trash. To be fair, so was his entire moveset.

 

[JetAurion]

Overly powerful... as in more powerful than everyone else?
Or overly powerful character, but other characters are also overly powerful (ie DBZ)?

 

[FireBall Stars]

Gonna start streaming, we'll play up to about 21 pm, it's 18:30 now.

twitch.tv/fireballstars

 

[leelue]

Why did you say pm if you're using 24hr time?

 

[jalued]

Has any work been done converting the codes to PAL? It would be greatly appreciated

 

[Stevo]

the pm stands for project melee

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Overly powerful... as in more powerful than everyone else?
Or overly powerful character, but other characters are also overly powerful (ie DBZ)?

He meant as in more powerful than everyone else (e.g. MetaKnight and Snake). As for DBZ, it kind of has the same problem with Goku. Yeah, they have more powerful enemies each season, but at the end of the day Laser Shooting Jesus on Steroids will become more powerful via some plot device and save the day, regardless of whether he has twenty heart attacks and dies for the umpteenth time as a result.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Laser Shooting Jesus on Steroids

Is he riding a raptor?

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Is he riding a raptor?

Why the hell not?

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

To people complaining about this thread...

get a life seriously

go out and play or something

 

[tripwire]

Has anything new happen besides the Demo 2 countdown, like new move changes?

 

[JCaesar]

Every day.

 

[9Kplus1]

I'm shffln?

 

[I R MarF]

On the topic of overpowered characters, I would like to share an opinion that will most likely recieve a lot of backlash, but I'm curious what others have to say/do they agree...

TBH, I love the creativity of the P:M team in terms of the directions they took each character; no one feels homogenized.

Yet at the same time, some of the design choices feel like they were made with "no balls". I'm obviously not trying to insult, but when I say they were made with "no balls", I'm talking about the fact it seems like some of these characters were made with the thought process of "what would make a perfect character?" instead of something that actually should have been "whats the bare minimum for a melee character to be as viable as say... C. Falcon or ICs?"

What I mean is that even though the top tiers are allegedly being used as viability models, it doesn't really seem like actual character concept is being applied. To elaborate, the "viability model" seem to strictly pertain to whether the character is able to compete with Fox/Falco/Shiek/Jiggs. IMO, it is bad to just go by that because your character design is completely unrestricted.

You see, most of the top and high tiers have weaknesses almost as well defined as their strengths. For instance, if I asked you: What are Fox's strengths and what are his weaknesses? Most people would say that he is fast, powerful, and has ridiculous amounts of options but is easily combo'd/gimped, chaingrabbed, and has technical consistency barriers. The strengths and weaknesses of Falco, Jiggs, Marth, Peach, C. Falcon, ICs, Ganon, Doc, and Samus are all just as easy to pinpoint. This is because these weaknesses are significant to their playstyles... in fact, so significant... they are counterbalances.

Yet when I watch a recent video such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woFlo3Sh8AU

I have great difficulty attempting to determine ROB's statistical weaknesses let alone an obvious counterbalance. He seems to have great aerials, solid aerial mobility, great grabs, platform ranged AND spammable tilts, decent WD, excellent projectiles for both offense and defense, excellent edge guarding, good recovery. The only thing I can think of is that he is a big target, which doesn't offset his game because it gives him the extra range, and is difficult to take advantage of by the opponent because he has such quick mobility options and projectiles to keep the opponent out. There is nothing definitive that holds ROB back.

Here is another match: http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007#p/u/18/LPAE0ROQnt4

Again, I'm watching it trying to determine Zelda's major counterbalance. I notice she has an excellent ability to cover a lot of her mistakes, projectiles (useful for stage control and defense), powerful fair/bair, quick dsmash, powerful utilt, effective high percent KO set ups, good recovery, and amazingly powerful throws. What are her weaknesses? Thats she is light and has poor air and dash speed? (Even though they are both offset by teleport). Just like ROB, what weaknesses are there are trivial and drowned out by free reigning strengths.



When I see how characters like ROB and Zelda are coming along, I feel like they were designed with a mentality like: "How do we make ROB/Zelda viable? How about we just make EVERYTHING pretty darn good?"

We all know that isn't true, though, since thought was clearly put into making each character looks and feel different (props to P:M team), but the lack of restrictions and counterbalances in their playstyle is bad because half of learning your character is compensating for weaknesses and emphasizing on the strengths. If there are no weaknesses to compensate for, then the character stops feeling like a melee character, is that much easier to play, and it ruins the playability of other characters.

Take UMvC3 for example, low execution characters with little to no counterbalances like Wesker and Wolverine ruin the playability of other characters because they don't take devotion in order to compensate for those kinds of issues, whereas high execution characters like C. Viper do not.

*However, I guess my main point is: is that you gotta have balls with these character designs. Think along the lines of C. Falcon, the character has quite a few weaknesses, he has a bad recovery (even though he just keeps coming back like the terminator), has no projectile, and is easy to combo/overall bad defensive options. However, through hard pressing, you can use his amazing DD, his powerful aerials, and his very supplementary throw game to win. He proves to us that it actually takes a lot less to be viable than you think. But if Captain Falcon as we know him didn't exist and he was somehow as sucky as Zelda was in Melee, I feel like you guys would've made sure he had an improved grab range, better OoS, given him the ability to air dodge out of Up-b, made side-b JC'able, etc.

What I find most ironic, is that in retrospect, Sonic and Snake from Demo 1 were actually almost genius design in both being unique feel and folllowing the rules of every character's definitive weaknesses counterbalancing their strengths. Snake had the amazing stage control but poor close range control and gimpable recovery, while Sonic had amazing mobility in every respect, but had a lot of trouble killing which made him very enduring (though bair should've been a bit stronger)

Everyone hated on these character's flaws and didn't give them a chance, myself included, and I guess its because we were all spoiled by the fact they could be changed. I now realize that their design choices actually had balls and I really appreciate that you guys believed that they were ready for public release because they definitely met the criteria of counterbalancing. I suppose I should be disappointed in myself as a member of the community that drove you guys to feel these characters had to recieve changes (particularly Snake)

Now though, the design choices confuse me. You've proved that you can give characters great and unique strengths, lets see 'dem weaknesses

 

[Shadic]

Toon Link will always have a bad recovery as long as I have a say. Balls out.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm shffln?

I'm pretty sure that is Marvin the Martian's primary form of locomotion.

Thanks for automatically updating thread.

 

[9Kplus1]

ROB doesn't kill, but rather pokes everything to death; ROB's size, tacky physics, and large blind spot below herself make her fairly easy to combo; her recovery isn't really that good either. ROB has a pretty large slew of exploitable weaknesses. The problem is that no one else besides JC really plays her, meaning that it's pretty hard to determine what ROB's weaknesses really are just by watching. Falco, DDD, Deoxys-S and generally any character capable of quickly getting inside of ROB's range has a pretty good chance of beating her. Honestly, learning how to play against ROB -- any new character, really -- is just a simple matter of getting first-hand experience.

Though, I will agree that Zelda is pretty ****ing silly. Worse than Manaphy + Drizzle in Gen IV OU, imho.

Toon Link will always have a bad recovery as long as I have a say. Balls out.

Don't you mean "Bombs out"?

 

[tripwire]

Zelda is PM's Wesker. But in all honesty i don't think they would put in a character with no weakness.

 

[kaizo13]

Toon Link will always have a bad recovery as long as I have a say. Balls out.

imo his recovery is decent....It's just the drastic change from his lolbrawl-look-at-me-i'm-flying up-b that makes it seem so bad in comparison.

most of the deaths i see on streams are from suicides and failure to recover properly.

 

[leelue]

I have felt the same way as marf for some time. I asked Eli if he thought dk was broken, and he didnt agree.
I pointed towards his difficult to punish/intercept recovery, excellent edgeguard game, insanely big grab range, the clear usefulness of almost Every move he has, his ability to combo, the startup and cooldown of most of his moveset and his depth of kill moves that range from back throw to up tilt. His weaknesses encompass.. his size? But thanks to his mobile nature and ridiculous range that was hardly any consolation.
I explained that there is a multi-tiered approach to dealing with spacies but for Dk it was "pray".

When I played eternal yoshi I noticed that yoshi was similarly devoid of weaknesses. A useful projectile, a nearly complete inability to be gimped, amazing to the point of unreal combos, a great many kill options, an aerial grab that reaches rather far, and the 64 style fair spike. I was legitimately worried, if only a bit.

I also agree with zelda, though i could see her having bad matchups with... someone. Marth perhaps? I'm not sure.

Rob is gimpable-ish, but it doesn't really feel that much harder than gimping your average Joe. Also, 9k, if Rob is above you, can't he fly away left and right? That, and I'm not afraid of going under most characters now that I think about it.