Project M Social Thread

[JCaesar]

[collapse= Project M Tier list]

SS Tier
Fox
Falco
Sheik
R.O.B.

S Tier
Zelda
Jigglypuff
Wario
Metaknight
Peach
King DeDeDe
Zero Suit Samus


A Tier
Mario
Donkey Kong
Marth
Ice Cimbers
Captain Falcon
Wolf
Ganondorf
Lucario
Ness
Pit
Samus
Bowser
Mr. Game and Watch

B Tier
Kirby
Diddy
Toon Link
Yoshi
Charizard
Link
Luigi
Olimar
Sonic
Pikachu
Ike
Squirtle
Snake

C-O Tiers
Ivysaur

P Tier
Lucas[/collapse]

Someone watches my stream too much hahaha

 

[Yeroc]

Yeah, I lol'd heartily at Kirby being only B tier. And ZSS being bottom of S.

 

[`dazrin]

Toon Link. And look how much complaining it gets.

Get at me, haters.

you better buff it to at least YL status!! lolol

And that tier list really makes me wonder what the ACTUAL P:M tier list will look like when the game is all said and done... But what really warms my heart is that every character will be a viable choice for tournament play

and toonlink's buffs. gotta love those toonlink buffs.

 

[Archangel]

looks like i killed 9k+1

 

[CORY]

and toonlink's butts. gotta love those toonlink butts.

you per v!

 

[`dazrin]

 

[Vigilante]

Despite not posting much, I read this thread often and man you guys are insane.

Jokes aside, I'll post the stream when we're aobut to start. It should be late in the afternoon.

 

[Dark Sonic]

marth isn't terrible, he's just average. in melee, position is everything. the entirely of top tier play is based around what you can and can't do because of the situation, and the best players leverage position on each other constantly. marth is quite potent at both setting a positional advantage with his superior range and then killing his opponent by removing his options rather than by a high knock-back finishing move (basically marth gimps them).

in brawl, this isn't possible for him to the extent that it's no longer his primary strategy, but a secondary one. marth simply can't edge guard half of the cast in any productive manner from (massively) upgraded recoveries that marth never had to worry about in melee. consider even simple examples like ganondorf, where you guys added a final hit to his up B....that marth can't trade a dtilt with. most of the cast has things like that.

most of the stage control dynamic is also gone. the stages are bigger, or the characters are relatively faster, or the platforms are longer such that things like uptilt/upair don't cover them. consider marth on battlefield vs some of the new stages and you should get the idea. marth can no longer do a single upthrow and expect to have an advantageous position on the opponent. not only that, it seems that a few of the characters were specifically made such that they're immune to stage control. i voiced my opinion concerning ROB some time ago, but squirtle and zelda among others pretty much don't give a **** about being cornered. marth can't pin them, and neither can anyone else. but marth can't pin most characters now anyway. this is simply not the case in melee.

even if he could, his range advantage is gone as well. marth has above average range....but it's not that great or overwhelming like it was in melee. the best you can do with abusing range is attacking air to air with marth's fair, but a smarter opponent can simply choose not to fight marth in the air because, again, he can't pin them. you can just play like a douche by banning FD, running up to marth and shielding, blocking his attack, and hitting him in the lag. if he grabs you, you take a small % because he can't do anything truly potent with it. this is already how jigglypuff beats marth in melee, because marth can't pin that character in that game either. it applies to most characters in PM.

PM is basically the exact same marth frame wise, but without all of his relative advantages that make him so dangerous. once you realize that most of the things marth can do simply aren't threatening, he's pretty easy to walk on. if you don't know how to fight him, yeah i guess he can fsmash you. but don't change the character if you don't know what you're doing.

it's okay that this game plays different and that marth's usual strategies aren't as good in it. i think it's 100% ******** to have characters that are completely immune to the fundamentals of strategic play like zelda, squirtle, etc and it makes them totally bonkers and maybe those characters should be changed. but marth is fine the way he is.

This post is awesome and I wanted to quote it so people can see it again.

 

[9Kplus1]

Generally every huge post that Mow makes is amazing

 

[MacD]

As I said I meant it in the sense that it was rediscovered by him. I'm pretty sure MikeG actually was the first Peach to really beat up on Marth. I know Wife did ok in the MU with the Dsmashing an Float cancel traps.

the only reason it was "rediscovered" by him was because he was good enough to beat m2k/has ridiculous spacing, and there have been no good marths to show our knowledge in the match up.

i'm pretty sure me and vanz beat marths before armada came along, and now we are still beating marths after without changing our style too much. sure we take things from armada, but it's not like "OMG MARTH WAS SO HARD, THANKS ARMADA, MATCH SO EASY NOW"

either way, should watch your words and make sure you don't offend the work person or hurt peoples feelings

 

[Rikana]

That was a really nice read. brought up many points I haven't really noticed consciously, but did apply the strategy just through experience, and it was explained well in words.

 

[Archangel]

the only reason it was "rediscovered" by him was because he was good enough to beat m2k/has ridiculous spacing, and there have been no good marths to show our knowledge in the match up.

i'm pretty sure me and vanz beat marths before armada came along, and now we are still beating marths after without changing our style too much. sure we take things from armada, but it's not like "OMG MARTH WAS SO HARD, THANKS ARMADA, MATCH SO EASY NOW"

either way, should watch your words and make sure you don't offend the work person or hurt peoples feelings

For a long time Mew2King was the only really good marth. Remember the "Marth is dead" era? well during that time the only Peach that I can think of to ever beat M2K was Cort...and I think M2K lost that purposely to play a set with Shiz. M2K wasn't the only Marth but none of the other ones were close to him. In fact he was in a sense recreating Marth at that time. I'm not trying to hurt Husbands, Ken, Azen....etc by saying that either. It's just a fact that nobody played Marth at that level before and there are maybe a handful that can now. It was thought that at that level of play you were likely not going to beat a Marth who played at that level. Nobody else had done it before Genesis 1 rolled around.

M2K wasn't the only one Makenshi and Strawhat had lost as well. After Genesis 1 there was a blueprint for how to beat even a Marth who can play like M2K that wasn't there before...that's all I'm saying. In fact not too long after that it seemed like Marth's started losing to Peaches at about a 6 of 10 ratio worldwide. Causing Marth's to re-evaluate the MU which is now considered about 55-45 or between that and 50-50 where as before it was thought 60-40 or worse.

Again no disrespect intended for the OG's I'm just saying even that which already exists can still be re-invented. Look at your new phones, TV/Computer screens...etc

 

[9Kplus1]

Yeah, in retrospect, PewPewU was really bad at this game

 

[MacD]

haha, he was the one marth i always wanted to play, but we never got to

 

[Archangel]

when PPU finishes puberty he'll be the best Marth I'm sure.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Shadic are you coming to Otto's on Friday and or Saturday?

 

[Shadic]

Didn't know there was something going on. Gimme the details - I'll think about it.

He's a lot closer to me than GC is - This is Tukwila, right?

 

[Mattnumbers]

Yeah I'll PM you

 

[Vigilante]

Streaming in less than an hour with my best friend. He's not that good, but he's going to play Pikachu, lol.

 

[AeonClock]

Wtf is this? I don't visit this thread for a few days and I miss an important Marth discussion?
Bitterness aside, I'm on the "Marth doesn't really need anything yet" side. I WOULD, however, like to see Marth be able to switch directions in the middle of side-b. It never made sense to me how he was stuck attacking in the same direction in a four-part move like that.

 

[Kink-Link5]

The move is actually seeing some utility recently in Marth's game (along with Standard B), as it has a fast cool down and good, disruptive knockback angle.

I'm much more concerned about getting the asthetics and incomplete characters worked on at the moment and leaving the small tweaks to the polishing stages.

I like to think of it like working with metals- Hammer it into the general shape, round it out on a press, weld, solder, and rivet the pieces together, file out the rough edges, sand it smooth, then finally add the final polish.

 

[Kink-Link5]

"Finally do the final thing" god my diction is terrible.

 

[JCaesar]

(7:59:24 PM) Wavebuster: I wonder what would happen if I ever met a clone of myself
(7:59:27 PM) Wavebuster: personality and all
(7:59:39 PM) Vigilante: You would probably have angry and bitter sex

PMBR workin hard...

 

[`dazrin]

apr demo2 release date confirmed

2013

 

[I R MarF]

This post is awesome and I wanted to quote it so people can see it again.

Basically Marth as we know him is boned in P:M it sounds like

 

[Deleted member]

Basically Marth as we know him is boned in P:M it sounds like

No, he's not bad. He's just not that great either. I mean it's pretty obvious that he's not as good as say Peach or Falcon, but it's not a major gap either. You just have to know what you're doing if the opposing character beats you or the player is better than you. Except vs ZSS, Marth has NOTHING in that MU.

 

[ph00tbag]

Basically Marth as we know him is boned in P:M it sounds like

I wouldn't go that far. Umbreon just has a thing for melodrama.

Marth's not as good in P:M as he was in Melee. That's really all you should take from it. I suppose tipper fair could have Brawl knockback angle, and a fairly steep knockback growth. Although that might have negative implications on other aspects of his game.

 

[Vigilante]

It's taking longer than I thought because there's goddarn hockey on TV.

 

[`dazrin]

Definitely would agree with umbreon's/phootbag's post. Like others have stated, marth isn't "boned" in p:m. He's still the same- still good, just not as good as he was in melee as there are new characters with better recoveries, new stages that are harder to control with range alone, and all the like. you can still do the same things, but it simply isn't has easy/effective as it was before.

Ultimately, we'll just have to see exactly how everything falls into place when this game is released. -But it is fun to speculate on how well certain characters place in tournaments in the future.

On a different note entirely- will there be any streams tonight?

 

[Vigilante]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/project-m---vigilante

Starting in a few minutes. We're just eating. Should be live at 21h00

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

If I get at least a 35 on the ACT, can I get an up-to-date P:M alpha build?

 

[9Kplus1]

If I started growing women robots for you guys, would you let me run P:M?

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

If you could do that you could run the world.

 

[Archangel]

I wouldn't go that far. Umbreon just has a thing for melodrama.

Marth's not as good in P:M as he was in Melee. That's really all you should take from it. I suppose tipper fair could have Brawl knockback angle, and a fairly steep knockback growth. Although that might have negative implications on other aspects of his game.

I like the idea as well as a few other ideas mentioned like Roy's side-b, Side-b turn around, Stronger tipper bair with a slight downward angle. Hybrid Roy/Marth upsmash...etc

I see no reason to wait until the game is completely released to start fixing problems that everyone can already see. It's like releasing a new set of cars that are known to have break problems and saying "Well...we'll see how many people die before we fix it". *shrugs*.

 

[`dazrin]

except, marth isn't a broken car in any way, and you're asking for your ferrari to be featured on pimp my ride.

edit: nvm, found marth

 

[Ecks]

I wouldn't be opposed to an experimental marth build. What's the harm right? (Other than a possible waste of time.)

 

[Spoon~]

I wouldn't be opposed to an experimental marth build. What's the harm right? (Other than a possible waste of time.)

That's time better spent on characters that NEED changes though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

You don't polish the metal before riveting it together.

Though it helps to have it smooth if your soldering it.

Not sure if it matters for welding.

 

[MaxThunder]

I like the idea as well as a few other ideas mentioned like Roy's side-b, Side-b turn around, Stronger tipper bair with a slight downward angle. Hybrid Roy/Marth upsmash...etc

I see no reason to wait until the game is completely released to start fixing problems that everyone can already see. It's like releasing a new set of cars that are known to have break problems and saying "Well...we'll see how many people die before we fix it". *shrugs*.

how would an hybrid marth/roy up-smash work?..

 

[Kink-Link5]

Give it an unreliable spike that never hits.

What an hysterical idea. An humourous one as well. And an hell of a good one too.