Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Pieman0920]

We may get both versions of Andross, since we did get both in the last game. I think it's completely possible for him to show up in story mode as a boss, in his updated look. (His last apperance was in Adventures, and say what you want about that game, he still looked cool)

 

[jimmysilverrims]

I say that the Andross most people consider to be the 'real' Andross (The Giant Monkeyhead) will either be a seperate AT, or be a boss in the Subspace Emmisary.

I think that he would make an interesting boss for the Subspace Emmisary because he'd be like a cross between Master Hand and something completely new.

 

[raphtmarqui]

I dont think hell be a boss AND an assist trophy.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Well, think about it. In Melee they confirmed the fact that the SNES Andross is a robot and not the real Andross. I think that that says a lot on the fact that if Sakurai wanted he could have the Robo-Andross be an AT while the actual Andross is a boss.

 

[Ispy4Pie]

Interesting list, only parts of it are disagreeable, for example Why the BK? I know hes major and all, but he really has different moves...I HIGHLY doubt he will be a clone. Have you played PoR before? If you have, then you should know, he isn't a clone. Amen about everything else, they ahve a chance. Good list, 7/10-8/10

 

[Pieman0920]

The Black Knight doesn't have enough to distinguish himself from not being a clone, or a alt costume. Heck, he and Ike even use weapons that are basically the same thing. >_>

 

[Yukiwarashi]

I propose that since Pichu and Mewtwo were both pretty bad (and with the advent of Pokemon Trainer and potentially Lucario), that they be replaced with a faster version of Mewtwo, equally significant to the series and different from the others: Mew.
I'd give Jigglypuff a decent chance of returning (original 12 status) were it not for a little personal distaste, similar appearance to Kirby, and doubts of Pokemon (with all the new franchises that could be included for diversity) taking up more than 4 spots on the roster (especially with Trainer as 3).

Mewtwo will NOT be replaced. He was the most wanted Pokemon, and just because they screwed him up in Melee does not mean he cannot be improved. Mewtwo is still very popular, and it's a ridiculous suggestion to say that he will be removed after fans wanted him in for so long.

 

[IllidR]

The Black Knight doesn't have enough to distinguish himself from not being a clone, or a alt costume. Heck, he and Ike even use weapons that are basically the same thing. >_>

Are you serious? How are they the same? Black Knight would be a very very, heavy sword user with slow, powerful attacks. Ike would be a little bit faster. And they're weapons are the same thing? Well Link and Metaknight both have swords too, so they must be clones.

 

[Pieman0920]

...No, they really are basically the same weapon. Almost literally. Link and Metaknight have two distinctly different swords, and so does Ike, but BK's is practically Ike's sword, except for the name of it. And Ike is slow and powerful. And as shown with Ganondorf, clones can be made heavier and stronger if need be.

 

[IllidR]

...No, they really are basically the same weapon. Almost literally. Link and Metaknight have two distinctly different swords, and so does Ike, but BK's is practically Ike's sword, except for the name of it. And Ike is slow and powerful. And as shown with Ganondorf, clones can be made heavier and stronger if need be.

Well they could also use different arrays of swings to differentiate themselves. I always imagine Black Knight with an armory of vertical stronger swings with more range and Ike having horizontal faster swings.. I don't know too much about the fire emblem series but also their special attacks could be different types of petty magic they possess to differentiate them.

 

[FoxxehRoxxeh]

Actually, for the people who did their time lines on the Zelda Series, OoT is the first in the Timeline.

 

[Legolastom]

It really isn't Minish cap is almost always 1st.

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

i find oot not the first if you take all the zelda games before GANON lord pig and make the starting ones with ganondorf(as at the end of oot he transforms into ganon(tp is a different thing becuase he turns back into ganondorf) then out of the 4 mc likes ones(4s)the 4s adventure being last in the series out of all the games where ganon and vaati join up(well not really join up but you know what i mean)

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well they could also use different arrays of swings to differentiate themselves. I always imagine Black Knight with an armory of vertical stronger swings with more range and Ike having horizontal faster swings.. I don't know too much about the fire emblem series but also their special attacks could be different types of petty magic they possess to differentiate them.

They were both taught how to fight by the same teacher, so they have extremely similar sword styles. Aldonite and Ragnell (their weapons) are also nearly identical in appearance and stats. Ironically, Aether is just Sol and Luna put one after the other and the Black Knight's ultimate skill is the latter half of it. It's kinda like Ike was fighting a stronger version of himself. I have a hard time putting them as anything other than clones.

If Ike is supposed to be the heavy swordsman, why would you put another swordsman that's even slower and heavier than him? I think that Marth would be a better choice and it would give a much more drastic comparison. Slow and Powerful vs weak and Fast. You could still have The Black Knight, but then Ike would be more of an average swordsman than a heavy one.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

why would you put another swordsman that's even slower and heavier than him?

You know what?

I never thought of it that way... I wonder if WiseGuy did.

 

[O D I N]

Slower, heavier... Stronger??

Ganondorf? Anyone? Anyone??

 

[Numa Dude]

NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

WHY SAKURAI, WHY?!?!?!?! WHY MAKE ANDROSS AN AT? HE HAD SO MUCH POTENTIAL!

Oh well life goes on.

 

[neoREgen]

(on Fire Emblem)

1. Maybe Nintendo wants to "update the series" to promote the newer games outside of Japan? We don't know what they are thinking

2. Mia is not a main character

3. Micaiah's game is already out in Japan and will be out before Brawl in NA

1. True enough, and in their position I would be tempted to do the same thing. Also, I'm not trying to know what they're thinking- just create a somewhat down-to-earth dream roster.

2. Yeah, I just chose her because of aesthetic and the fact she has some support.

3. Yeah. It comes out in November, just a month before, so I have my doubts. In the past they've only updated the characters to the extent of the previous gen.
I really would prefer Micaiah though.

I also don't think The Black Knight is a good enough villain... as I've said earlier: he's pretty generic.

You're wrong.

Straight up? That's how amazingly wrong I am, that it requires no further evidence?

I do appreciate the bluntness though (no sarcasm).

I apologize if I'm simply ignorant, but I really would like you to convince me I'm wrong. After all, if you do and he gets in, I can actually look forward to it.

This is the extent of my logic for this case: he's a bad guy, meaning evil, relating to Black. In a fantasy setting, there are certainly many classes to choose from for a main villian, and while Knights can often be higher-level baddies in RPGs, they usually aren't the Main boss. So the exception is that he is the main bad guy, even as only a Knight rather than a colossal monster or magic dictator or something.

Tear it up.

 

[O D I N]

NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

WHY SAKURAI, WHY?!?!?!?! WHY MAKE ANDROSS AN AT? HE HAD SO MUCH POTENTIAL!

Oh well life goes on.

I really assumed he'd be an AT. :shrug: Maybe newer Andross will make an appearance. :shrug:

 

[Creo]

..Thank you Sakurai. I knew the overlarged Monkey/Polygon/thing wouldn't be playable which is why he wasn't on my prediction list! Life goes on for me in a good way. I wanted him an Assist Trophie anyways..

 

[Legolastom]

This is the extent of my logic for this case: he's a bad guy, meaning evil, relating to Black. In a fantasy setting, there are certainly many classes to choose from for a main villian, and while Knights can often be higher-level baddies in RPGs, they usually aren't the Main boss. So the exception is that he is the main bad guy, even as only a Knight rather than a colossal monster or magic dictator or something.

If you actually get to know his history and his "Motives" you will know he isn't just some Knight wearing Black armor (Which is actually blessed by the goddess)...

Just read the BK thread.

 

[neoREgen]

(on Black Knight)

Slower, heavier... Stronger??

Ganondorf? Anyone? Anyone??

Yeah, I'd thought of this before rechecking the thread. You got to it first.

Ganondorf and Black Knight would be similar in being heavy, slow swordfighters.

It'd just be weird for Black Knight to be an alternate costume of Ganondorf though, wouldn't it?... just a thought of something that might console everyone.

If you actually get to know his history and his "Motives" you will know he isn't just some Knight wearing Black armor (Which is actually blessed by the goddess)...

Just read the BK thread.

I went and read the first 5 pages and last 2... his generic/cliche-ness was brought up by countless people other than me, and I'm led to believe some of them actually played the game and still found him to be cliche. The arguments against this weren't very good. Most people said things like 'who cares if he doesn't have a story? Smash doesn't have a story!' or Wiseguy's comment: "Scientifically and objectively speaking, the Black Knight owns. Probably the greatest villian in a Nintendo game. Yeah, I said it. A Black Knight-less Brawl is a fututre too bleak to contimplate. He MUST be in Brawl. He WILL be in Brawl! BLACK FREAKIN' KNIGHT FOR BRAWL!" ...... you know, which doesn't really say anything other than he wants him.
So perhaps I didn't find what you were referring to. I did see a couple of story details, but nothing that informed me of his motives. If you could refer me to a specific page of that, I will definitely take another look though.


(on Mewtwo)

Mewtwo will NOT be replaced. He was the most wanted Pokemon, and just because they screwed him up in Melee does not mean he cannot be improved. Mewtwo is still very popular, and it's a ridiculous suggestion to say that he will be removed after fans wanted him in for so long.

I agree that he can definitely be improved and him not being very good doesn't necessitate his removal. I'm not caught up on what Pokemon fans really like these days. I went through the entire list of new pokemon looking for something other than Blakizen (and Lucario, of course) that could represent the newer series. I didn't really see anything that fit. Removing both Jigglypuff and Pichu from my list, it seemed that to balance it, something cute was required. Thus settling on Mew, rather than Mewtwo. I always liked Mew more personally, and wasn't he the best Pokemon of the first games?
I had no clue Mewtwo was more popular. Why? Just the badass evilness?

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

No, Mewtwo had higher base stats, from what I can tell. And a better moveset I believe. Only good thing about Mew was that you could teach it every TM/HM in the game, so you could tailor it however you wanted really. I think, anyway. Been a long time since I had a Mew.

 

[RokkuManZer0]

Mewtwo was more popular because of his humanoid form and because he was able to speak.

As for the Black Knight debate. I don't know what's so great about him. He's only a guy that wants to test his power against other people. He has a black armor, a huge sword and a red cape.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Actually, for the people who did their time lines on the Zelda Series, OoT is the first in the Timeline.

O D I N, I'm waiting for your trademarked "GANNON BANNED"

 

[neoREgen]

err. I thought it deleted my post and I double-posted.

 

[neoREgen]

Vagrant Lustoid- that sounds about right. I remember people trying to make perfect teams of nothing but Mews. Wasn't Mew the single hardest to capture as well?

RokkuManZer0- that could also be the case. In the Pokemon unverse, I can understand why Mewtwo would be so cool.

As far as humanoid pokemon in Smash Bros. go though, it seems like a waste of an otherwise potentially more different character from the rest of the roster that is also humanoid and can speak...

So, given that the Pokemon franchise will have Pikachu, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, and one other representative (this means de facto 6 pokemon in 4 slots), what characteristics do you think the final pokemon needs to get the slot?
Or do you think that the pokemon from previous Smash games will be in, making 5 slots and a whopping 7 pokemon (because I don't think anyone suspects Pichu will be returning)?

Lucario is pretty solid, I think.

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Mew can't be captured, except by one of three glitches that allows you to access any pokemon data in the cartridge through a programming error/thing. Or by the rare Nintendo events. So basically, if you didn't get one at an event, you didn't have one. Unless you were like me and cloned Mew through a risky glitch that ended up corrupting my Pokemon Blue cartridge. But that was okay, since I already had about ten, and so I continued to clone them and sell them to friends who weren't at the event. Fun times...

I think Mewtwo will be here, in all honesty. I want Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer and Mewtwo. No more. No less either unless we're getting an awesome floating psychic beast from another franchise *coughPsychoMantiscough*. Now he'd be a sweet AT. I want him to read my Wii and tell me what I've been playing!

 

[neoREgen]

hahhah. Psycho Mantis... he'd be a great Assist Trophy- suddenly all the players have to switch controllers or they end up controlling each other's characters! This would be especially fun being forced to play with uncomfortable characters or controller customizations.

Man. It's been a long time since that first iteration of Pokemon, and I never got far enough into it to know that (never owned a Gameboy)... Just the fact that you couldn't have Mew without glitches and that he does NOTHING when he comes out of Pokeballs makes me feel a little denied strangely and want Mew even more.

I really think that as rabid as Lucario fans seem to be that he will also end up in the game.
I just can't quite see Pokemon only having 3 slots, but if it does, that's fine with me- it'll add another for hopefully another franchise that has yet been seen in the Smash Bros games.


By the way, Wiseguy- are you going to replace ROB or are you still hoping?

 

[raphtmarqui]

Pokemon will at least have 4 slots, most likely 5.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Well, well, well. Speaking of Pokemon, looks like for todays update we got some of the special moves for Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Charizard. Let me tell you this: I was a tad disappointed. Yeah, we all saw Vine Whip coming and who didn't think of Flamethrower? But some moves, like Bullet Seed and Rock Smash made me sad. A projectile that only fires straight up? That sucks! When would you use that move? Rarely. And I was dissapointed at Rock Smash. It's so corny. He pulls out a rock and smashes it. WTF!?


Now I'm not saying I hate the moves, but they could have been much better moves. It seems to me that instead of getting three for the price of one, we're getting three thirds for the price of one

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Sorry for the double post.

 

[Pieman0920]

I wouldn't underestimate a upwards projectile if I were you. Ivysaur seems to be a very tricky character though, and probalby will be difficult to master. (Although PT in general seems to need more effort to master) =/

 

[Vali]

Double post alert! *points at Jimmy*

By the way:

"His down special move is a Pokémon Change, so each Pokémon has three special moves!

That’s nine in all. Amazing!"

Considering that he each one shares the same move, doesn't that make it 7 in total? Guess it depends on if you think that Pokemon Change is a different move if it's from Squirtle to Ivysaur than if it's from Ivysaur to Charizard. I honestly do think that Charizard doesn't have an B^ along with Squirtle having no B or Ivysaur no B>. I think it's more than coincidence that Charizard the Pokemon that would be able to fly has no B^ move. It's intended.

I've seen people asking what the other 3 moves are, the simple answer: there are no other special moves. Except Final Smashes of course, but they aren't B moves ^^.

 

[Legolastom]

Just because he didn't show all the moves doesn't mean they are there... the only character that he has show all SM is Link.

 

[Vali]

Just because he didn't show all the moves doesn't mean they are there... the only character that he has show all SM is Link.

I was highlighting the point where he says that down B special is Pokemon change, meaning that all Pokemon have a total of 3 special moves. So they each have 2 unique special moves (as shown on the Dojo) and share the common Pokemon Change move, thus making for 3 special moves each.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

I disagree. It makes no sense. Why have a character with no recovery move? What would happen if you hit ^ B? Nothing? I don't think so. If the moves Sakurai released are the only moves they get then by your logic both Wario and Pit don't have full movesets either. Sakurai said that they all have diffrent movesets and share Pokemon Change. That makes 9 (3 moves x 3 characters = 9)

On another note: Doesn't Squirtle's Waterfall look a lot more like Surf?

 

[Legolastom]

... What!? i don't quite understand what point your trying to make but why do you believe that they will be missing a special move each?

 

[Vali]

I disagree. It makes no sense. Why have a character with no recovery move? What would happen if you hit ^ B? Nothing? I don't think so. If the moves Sakurai released are the only moves they get then by your logic both Wario and Pit don't have full movesets either. Sakurai said that they all have diffrent movesets and share Pokemon Change. That makes 9 (3 moves x 3 characters = 9)

On another note: Doesn't Squirtle's Waterfall look a lot more like Surf?

Well with Pit and Wario they're their own character and not some kind of special instance of 3 transformations rolled into 1 character so it wouldn't make sense for them to only have 2 special moves. I've already pointed out that Charizard might have the ability to fly or have many jumps in order to compensate for his lack of B^, and it'd be insanely easy to program having nothing for a move. Also 3 special moves per character PLUS a Pokemon Change for each character makes either 10 or 12 special moves depending on if you count the Pokemon Change separately (which I also brought up in my first post). A total of 9 can only be explained in 1 way ladies and gents.

@both Jimmy and Legolastom, read both my posts again. It honestly does make sense.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

They all share one move: Pokemon Change. Just like how Zelda only had Three Special moves and Transformation and Sheik only had three special moves and Transformation? Same thing here.

EDIT: Your second post makes sense (And I kinda resaid it.) but your first post was confusing and I think you were confused. Charizard, Ivysaur, and Squirtle all get Up Bs, Side B's, and Normal B's that are all totally unique. But they all share one move: Pokemon Change. (Down B.)