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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

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noobird

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
244
If you get a grab near the edge - you can do the fthrow/bthrow off jab + fsmash or just fsmash if they fall for that... usually doesn't work anymore though. something that's good at low percents is fthrow them off turn around and wait - some people go out and try to side-b back on stage in which case you can uptilt into shine into a long combo since they're at low percent. otherwise they're going to try and up b and you can react to that pretty easily.

on stage you can probably get two grabs off in a row; after you get enough of these chains of grabs they'll start to spotdodge/roll out and you can react accordingly. i like grabs as falco haha fthrow makes me feel badass
 
Dr Peepee

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Umbreon said:
You're fine really. The only problem you're having is that you experimented with some new aggression ideas and they didn't work out, but that's what experimentation is all about. But it's true, I did have more room to move when i played you this time around, and going youtube warrior for all of 15 minutes confirmed it. Here, follow me on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl8HvRgYDRE&t=4m22s

i don't have a video of the tournament you were at in california a few weeks ago but your set with all of the WC spacies did not look like how you were playing in this video. the main difference IMO is that when you go in, everything leads to something that is effectively unblockable for one reason or another (low aerial or laser and ends in shine, grab, shinegrab). I think the main thing is that you're using lasers and movement to set up strong angles for yourself, weak angles for your opponent, or you simply trap them.

I think the other main thing out of your initial hits on shine or grab is that you always immediately set up a HUGE advantage off of them by positioning or time. By that I mean, when you get the grab, it's always something like forward throw > set up edge guard or upthrow > free combo damage. But honestly, i think the shine is better between the two. almost every shine is a reset with a cancel in place, which gives you a MASSIVE amount of time to react to DI or to go for a better combo. in a lot of the cases, your combo here is simple a well placed dair setup > dair. I don't see you going for as many aerial approaches at your best, so it starts to look like a flow chart of sorts that looks like this:

neutral game > positioning/laser advantage (same thing really) > "unblockable" approach > set up a kill/gain as much damage momentum as possible if you can't get the kill.

the thing is, because of how you're setting it up, predictability is only a minor issue because there's a strong sense of inevitability. i think the strength of your offense has been reduced because of your new approaches not being as strong, both the approaches themselves are easier to defend against, but once you hit you're also not getting that strong punishment game because the hit-confirms don't give you as much opportunity to get the ideal punish out of them.

review these, you'll see what i mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQSMTKhdsDY match 1

vs the same MU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kSUi1-PqIc&t=13m30s

unfortunately there's not much continuity against players that you've played (at least on video) over the past year and a half or so and i didn't have much luck looking for the same players, but you can still observe the pattern pretty clearly once you see it. the sad thing is that your offense is still at 90% of what you were doing before and none of the things you're doing are bad per se, they're just not as good and falco is as frail as ever. i think the weaker offense gives that wiggle room we were texting about, and not killing your opponent is giving them more opportunities to fight you and hit you back.

in short, you only kinda ****. you're just not ****** enough.

i can go over this is MUCH more detail because i found TONS of examples because it's a continuous trend. if you want me to i will but we can save it for aim like the teams thing if you want or whatever you think will help you the most. let me know.

edit: green tea *****.
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After comparing what I have seen recently and thinking about the metagame some more, I think I know what I need to do but I'm going to have to wait until another big tourney to test it out because it won't work on Twitch(part of the reason I dropped some of that stuff maybe). I think what I am currently doing would work on people that would try to beat what I used to do, but I got ahead of myself and quit doing what worked without bothering to see if they adapted. That was a good and useful post umbreon, thank you. I'll discuss it more in-depth with you on aim tomorrow/thursday/friday most likely. Not sure which day will work best with at least my schedule being somewhat weird in the coming days.






Also no I was not sick at civil war but I probably deserve comments like that with the way I've been playing so good s*** weon-x if that's how you meant it.



*sigh*
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Melee is like an abusive spouse sometimes. It demands too much from you, and even the smallest mistakes can lead to ridiculous self-pity. I frequently will mess up a simple combo after a lot of Melee and just feel like unplugging my controller because I can't do ****ing tech skill **** that I should be able to do 100% of the time. That's not even mentioning the frustration that comes with simply being outplayed, if only for a single stock/game.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Dr Peepee said:
Also no I was not sick at civil war but I probably deserve comments like that with the way I've been playing so good s*** weon-x if that's how you meant it.



*sigh*
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You are your own best ally. There are a lot of people that like and support you, but ultimately the person most adept at helping you overcome your difficulties is you. Don't betray yourself.

edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3unWr_b2Ew

LOLLLLLLLLLL the pun is godlike.
 
Dr Peepee

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Bones: super duper true bro. I get so pissed at simple tech skill I sometimes play to totally avoid those errors haha. =p

unknown522 said:
weon-x and I are discussing on MSN right now.

You know what'll cheer you up PP? coming to impulse.

We'll get you a hooker
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I actually am thinking about impulse again if it'll be pretty big because of the way things have worked out. Going to Canada would be amazing. =)

KirbyKaze said:
And the hooker won't be me

We'll make sure it has lady parts and everything
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KirbyKaze said:
That's why we're getting a hermaphrodite.

Something for everyone.

We're not paying for two hookers.
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LMFAO KK <3

I do not require a hooker btw hanging out would be fun enough. XD

Umbreon said:
You are your own best ally. There are a lot of people that like and support you, but ultimately the person most adept at helping you overcome your difficulties is you. Don't betray yourself.
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Yeah I just need to think to myself more. I plan on doing so, but the reminder is still greatly appreciated to know I am on the right track.



You guys **** <3


Edit: scumbreon you're late on that one! =p
 
Mahone

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
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2,940
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Blacksburg, VA
Druggedfox said:
Not again...

:troll:
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weon - X said:
w8 we dont really know about PP's orientation.

he's called "dr. peepee" after all :troll:
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too much trolling going on XD

also, i think clawing is really good for shine oos, i just tried that cstick thing and thought it was really bad cuz u have to move ur finger to do it, but then i realized i just thought that cuz i claw and don't need to move any fingers to do it.

also, also, bones knows whats up... chillin is very good at shining oos
 
FoxLisk

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
@2 pages ago
Best thing todo when you grab a spacie is grab release fsmash because they get wicked confused

:phone:
 
Dr Peepee

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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unknown522 said:
if you come to impulse, that would be sick!

Someone needs to stop Hbox
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400% handled if I go. friggin love puff

/bair>bair



Random Falco thought: powershielding powershielded lasers needs to come back on anything besides really low or really high lasers.

Also Falco's DJ is tight but I suck at using it usually. It's so fast but so good at helping Falco die lol.
 
Mew2King

Mew2King

King of the Mews
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
11,263
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Cinnaminson (southwest NJ 5 min drive from Philly)
Dr Peepee said:
Being that guy that was considered good then loses to everyone is not fun and it also makes me second guess a lot of stuff <.<.
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neither is being the guy who's close to winning several nationals over the years just to lose closely to you/armada/hbox every time at 9309434 tournaments, but being able to 3 and 4 stock a lot of other good players over the years, just to fight you guys again late in the bracket only to lose over and over, never being able to overcome those hurdles. Really kills your confidence and drive to continue playing melee more than u can imagine. Have same problem in brawl w/ olimar
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
unknown522 said:
if you come to impulse, that would be sick!

Someone needs to stop Hbox
Click to expand...
Mew2King said:
neither is being the guy who's close to winning several nationals over the years just to lose closely to you/armada/hbox every time at 9309434 tournaments, but being able to 3 and 4 stock a lot of other good players over the years, just to fight you guys again late in the bracket only to lose over and over, never being able to overcome those hurdles. Really kills your confidence and drive to continue playing melee more than u can imagine. Have same problem in brawl w/ olimar
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Lmao, stfu emo scrubs. The community doesnt need negative attitudes.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Mew2King said:
neither is being the guy who's close to winning several nationals over the years just to lose closely to you/armada/hbox every time at 9309434 tournaments, but being able to 3 and 4 stock a lot of other good players over the years, just to fight you guys again late in the bracket only to lose over and over, never being able to overcome those hurdles. Really kills your confidence and drive to continue playing melee more than u can imagine. Have same problem in brawl w/ olimar
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Do you remember 2.5 years ago when you and me were on aim and we both decided that the best chars would be the ones with the best punishment game or the best ways to circumvent the best punishment games? We settled on the top 4 being MK diddy ICs and olimar? And now they're in a slightly different order and snake is still in there but we essentially called the top 4 characters in the game from almost 3 ****ing years ago. genius.
 
oliman

oliman

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Joined
Dec 2, 2008
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274
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The 216
sorry to bother you guys but can anybody give me tips on beating falcon with minimal lasers?
 
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