PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Bones0]

powershield grab is honestly one of the reasons i'm switching to sheik.

i can powershield pretty freely as ganon, but it's advantages are pretty weak unless you get hit with the laser while you're jumping in and approaching with it.

Powershield -> side-B or ftilt seems like it would be solid. Might want to add a WD OoS in to increase distance.

 

[Wobbles]

Luigi/IC- REALLY good WD and that makes them so fast and grab will be a great option . Don't know if it is much harder to use powershield as Ic beacause they are two but the potential is great. WD powershield wobbling then you are ****ed up.

Basically you need chars that can move fast with running speed/WD maybe even super WD as samus. That makes the stun from Falco long enough to have a free punish. If Wobbles learns this I really wanna see what will happen in Falco vs IC

ICs don't powershield lasers very well, a lot of times even when Popo shields it you hear the sound effect but the laser hits Nana anyhow. ;_;

My SoPo powershielding is better but it's not as scary.

 

[Rubyiris]

I like to go low laser > jump over it > delayed dair when people try to PS me. <_<

 

[Bones0]

I like to go low laser > jump over it > delayed dair when people try to PS me. <_<

This is why my training partner stopped trying to PS constantly against me. It ended up costing him more than it helped. lol

Random lulzy vid

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, someone i play against high lasers and just runs under them when i ps.

it's pretty frustrating lol.

 

[Rubyiris]

^i do that vs Falcon and Ganondorf.

 

[Dr Peepee]

ICs don't powershield lasers very well, a lot of times even when Popo shields it you hear the sound effect but the laser hits Nana anyhow. ;_;

My SoPo powershielding is better but it's not as scary.

That's....kinda lame.

yeah, someone i play against high lasers and just runs under them when i ps.

it's pretty frustrating lol.

I didn't even know you could do that to taller characters lol. Almost worth trying on Marth or Sheik but their crouches are too good(plus they duck when they run like cheaters lol).

I wonder if running under PS'd high lasers works on Peach(she's pretty tall right?). If anyone(Leffen) doesn't know I'll test it within a day and let people know what's up with it lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

like cheaters? ur character controls what i do from across the stage

 

[Dr Peepee]

Controls as much as you let me. =)

 

[SampsUn]

ohay guise

 

[Deleted member]

Controls as much as you let me. =)

"What is toast?" says Snowman to himself, once they've run off. Toast is when you take a piece of bread--What is bread? Bread is when you take some flour--What is flour? We'll skip that part, it's too complicated. Bread is something you eat, made from a ground-up plant and shaped like a stone. You cook it... Please, why do you cook it? Why don't you just eat the plant? Never mind that part--Pay attention. You cook it, and then you cut it into slices and you put a slice into a toaster, which is a metal box that heats up with electricity--What is electricity? Don't worry about that. While the slice is in the toaster you get out the butter--butter is a yellow grease, made from the mammary glands of--skip the butter. So, the toaster turns the slice of bread black on both sides with smoke coming out, and then this "toaster" shoots the slice up into the air, and it falls onto the floor...
"Forget it," says Snowman. "Let's try again." Toast was a pointless invention from the Dark Ages. Toast was an implement of torture that caused all those subjected to it to regurgitate in verbal form the sins and crimes of their past lives. Toast was a ritual item devoured by fetishists in the belief that it would enhance their kinetic and sexual powers. Toast cannot be explained by any rational means.
Toast is me.
I am toast.

-Oryx and Crake

Text me when you understand what I'm getting at.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

lol kevin i figured you were the one who told smith to do that.

dammit, that means the kids thinking on his own...i'm almost afraid lol.

 

[noobird]

question: how much should i be shielding - i don't get to play often with other people (that are any good at least) and i feel like i'm getting into the bad habit of shielding too much, which will probably get me ***** later on. but if i don't shield i'm afraid of getting hit.

 

[Strong Badam]

shield 32% of the time

 

[Bones0]

My advice would simply be to try to replace instances where you shield with good spacing as much as possible. There are obviously times where shielding is the better option, and sometimes shielding is great for baiting things without getting hit or whatever. Most people fall into the bad habit of shielding a lot because they are scared. It becomes a very knee-jerk emotional response instead of a coldly calculated response. If you can switch your reaction to fear from shielding to moving, you will become much more flexible when you aren't too sure of what they are trying to do. So for instance, if you shield every time someone jumps towards you, identify that the jump is what's causing you to shield, and then try to use movement techniques (SHing, FHing, WDing, DDing, attacking, etc.) to actively deal with the threat instead of passively submitting yourself to the few limited options you have from shield.

Just don't expect this to go away over night though. This isn't so much a bad habit that needs to be broken, but rather a finely tuned instinct that needs to be calibrated. Even among the very top players there are instances where they shield when they should have moved and move when they should have shielded. A lot of the times it is just a mixup situation where you have to predict, and other times spacing is so precise that there is no clear line of when it is better to shield or move. Hopefully some more experienced players can talk about this because I'm still working on this a lot, and the way I perceive the issue is based on my perspective as someone at the base of the mountain as opposed to the peak.

 

[crush]

how should i be DI'ing the overheat elbow? and is there anyway to get my rolls to dodge the pendulum kick? or should i just grab when im by the edge and theyre charging pendulum kick?

 

[Warhawk]

Crush where have you been? lol

 

[crush]

Crush where have you been? lol

****** bears in Siberia with brother Ivan

 

[knightpraetor]

i typically wd out of shield after powershields...but if you don't hold shield and powershield do you still have shield drop lag of 14 frames (with marth)? i heard m2k used to practice powershield fsmash all day and was just curious how that worked. with 14 frames of lag, you could just as easily powershield and WD out but you probably lose a few frames from trying to wavedash...

but yeah i've been thinking about learning to powershield fsmash at some point....

though as i remember the story, mahone basically said that m2k was just sitting there practicing powershield fsmash against him and said that was how he was going to beat pp...and then got powershield fsmash down to a science, got like one kill off of it and got ***** by pp in tourney....people on smashboards always tend to overvalue the ability of tech skills because it's way too much of a pain to argue about matchups and options from neutral...also i find that people's skill with their aerial games and ground games tend to be too stacked in one direction at times, so that they always think the best option is the one they are best at spacing because of the inherent bias created by their lack of skill when spacing with other tools...

i guess i'm more aware of that than other marths as my controller was broken for about 6 months without me knowing, and so i stopped dashdancing without realizing why and just started using wavedash and aerials and single dashes in all my matchups (because my controller would randomly miss a dash back left when dashing right)..... so i tend to think that most marths vastly underrate their aerial game and wavedash game...while the first time i saw PP i was like ecstatic and rambling to mahone about how he has such fine control over his dashdance, which i didn't understand...

went back tried to insert it into my game but it kept not working for me...then one day i was just in training with lvl 1s instead of matches and i finally realized my controller was broken

 

[Dr Peepee]

It may be beneficial to list examples of where someone has a bias with a certain spacing tool, or what some good options at neutral are to consider that people overlook.

Good post, just needs to be filled out a little more so people could respond imo.

 

[knightpraetor]

sorry i was just rambling...tired, but nah actually
i only wanted the answer to this question:
"but if you don't hold shield and powershield do you still have shield drop lag of 14 frames (with marth)? "

i seem to remember testing it at one point but i can't remember the result..i have barely played melee in teh last two weeks..i think i played less than 10 hrs....i'm forgetting how to play this game

and mahone keeps saying he's retiring..so there's no one to play

edit: i'll add in one example from you that I considered to be instrumental but that i haven't seen marth's implement in marth vs sheik

in marth vs sheik one of the fundamental problems is that sheik punishes marth for dashdancing more than most characters. For that reason, wavedashing during your dashdance tends to give you more options and leave you safer....in particular i think marth's should try wd backwards after aerials sometimes. character's like jiggs already do this all the time..but for marth this helps a lot when sheik is boxed out at the ledge so that you can get stronger punishes and not relinquish space as easily while still maintaining mobility...



also i spent two hours testing sheiks options with marth boxed out at the ledge and in particular sheik's ability to dash attack marth in the start up of a jump on reaction and it is quite frankly purely impossible at a decent range...marths continue to say this but it just their fear talking (which is understandable as i thought the same as them when i ate 9-10 dash attacks in my first few sets in tourney) but sh when the sheik is out of threat range is not that bad and is a solid mixup for dtilt and walking forward...

in particular if sheiks are reactively dash attacking in response to your movement forward you can punish them off of a sh quite heavily...and if they don't dash attack or move in reactively then you can start walking forward and dtilting to get more space...without being willing to jump forward the sheik can react to movement since you don't have room to dashdance at the edge and just dash attack (or grab) every time you try to come in.

also, even if the sheik is not going for reactive dash attacks, which sh definitely clears unless the sheik was too close and you hadn't made her scared to close in on you, you can still take space with the aerial, you just have to make sure that you give the space back up most of tte time since most sheiks tend to try to punish that landing lag, but then if you guess right (as to how and whether they come in) , you have an option to punish their commitment.

moreover the marth boards basically told me that CC and shield means sh forward isn't safe, and for someone like me who has been playing 90% aerial for most of the last year since i couldn't fully dashdance..I agreed with their assessment that dtilt was amazing but i had a very difficult time believing marth can't take space safely with aerials..even against sheik i think it is a solid mixup..(i think this now after testing marth's options at the ledge, yesterday i didn't think that fair was good and had decided it was bad and told PP in PM that i wasn't convinced [though for different reasons than the marth boards chose...more because i thought they could wd back on reaction]..but with testing i realized that being able to make them play reactively is in itself pretty good and opens other options..moreover i realized i had more options off my sh than i thought i did against sheik..


but then i didn't feel like arguing with the boards...because i thought they were probably thinking about sh forward from a closer spacing than what i had intended because neither I or anyone else had specified what spacing i was at relative to the sheik..

but my first statement, that m2k played massively aerial based vs amsah and most of the other sheik matches online was true enough...so i knew something must be good about it...also, i had already spent 3 weeks studying the marth matchup on the boards that just says stay on the ground, play grounded, CC a lot and dash dance for your grab, and playing from that perspective before....but it definitely didn't seem to work for me

not saying it can't work, but it seems to struggle to get kills a lot more...other than that i don't fault it in particular, it may even be better..


but when they started saying that aerials are a bad way of taking space in general....i just started second guessing everything i had learned in the last year about marth. I kept thinking, sure i can go around 45-55 while using aerials to take space against a fox that places 30something in nationals...but maybe at the pro levels it's not valid.

but there is always variation in how people play matchups...mango is so damn aggressive playing marth vs fox with his aerials i don't even know how he manages to throw out so many aerials and still maintain any semblance of spacing..but i feel like the current marth metagame is massively slanted towards a ground game...and to be blunt PP..it's all m2k and your fault...dashdancing seems so effective that everyone stays on the ground constantly now. And for a second example in another thread, another marth was talking about marth vs luigi and even though i again agreed that staying on the ground and just dtilting a lot was good...they stuffed someone for suggesting getting on the platforms because luigi will just get under you and you'll get punished..i'm sorry but CC, shielding, and getting under marth are not nearly enough to invalidate marth's air game or his platform game ( at least vs the slower characters...against faster characters i probably wouldn't risk getting on platforms unless i'm boxed out)..but the reason i know this is because when i first played vs redd's ICs i had no clue how to play the matchup, so I was forced to platform camp to avoid grabs that I was afraid of...not an optimal strategy maybe, but i had learned quite a few mixups from platforms from those....and luigi's second rate range is nowhere near enough to invalidate those options.

but after thinking about these discussions i realized, it's not their fault, or my fault, or anyone's fault really..people on smashboards don't want to enumerate all the possible spacings and options in a matchup.
WE ARE HERE TO SOCIALIZE AND RELAX!!!!

instead they tend to speak in generalities in the matchup when in reality a 3 millimeter difference in spacing along with the difference in whether the opponent is currently attempting to react to your motion or deciding to retreat/approach completely change the validity of options. Because of this and a recent revelation that I was utilizing a lot of options against sheik that are great against spacies and horrible against sheik made me realize that i needed to write out the options for some matchups I realized that smashboards tends to just be people giving general information about matchups without many situations elaborated upon.

so if i want to get better, i need to list out the situations and test them. so i spent 3 hrs enumerating various positions and options in marth vs fox from neutral to determine which options i liked out of my various punish options (on a side note just on ground positions when not boxed out at the ledge, between the options they have and whether they are reacting or in neutral or dashdancing in various directions, along with the variation between close and wide spacings and whether you are in lag, there are probably over a 100 variations, but in reality as you realize what are optimal punishes, you realize that most of the options just condense down to maybe 15 or so situations)

...one notable thing, reactively taking space with sh is significantly better than just sh forward and letting them react. I think the most useful thing i learned in those 3 hrs is that if you don't dashdance constantly and treat dash dance as neutral you have significantly better options for punishing and taking space as you won't be randomly dashing backwards at times when you wished you weren't. that and SH in place seems pretty bad except as a bait or when they are boxed out or you are boxed out at the ledge...movement is nice with your aerials normally.

i still think dashdancing is good, but spammed 99.9999% of the match like most players do is definitely very limiting..

for the tl;dr crowd,

just remember what pp said about wavedash being nice in marth vs sheik and especially consider it after some aerials

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm going to do it again now but,

can you list one of those positions at neutral you're talking about? Vs Fox I mean. How the options are good at that specific spacing vs another one? Is it something you could theorize or did you have to manually look at on the screen?

It's good for others to read for improvement purposes imo to see this particular elaborate process laid out.

 

[Bones0]

Damn KP, doing work. I can totally relate to the whole dependency on aerial vs. ground game. It's funny because DJ, the Marth I play, is allll about staying on the ground and WDing/DDing back. Then you have me, and I am consistently aggro. Even my Marth is constantly pushing forward, and I almost always favor the aerial approach over the grounded one. It creates a really weird dynamic, and it's really easy to see because it's a ditto. I'll just be approaching with nairs and fairs while he will be grabbing and fsmashing.

 

[unknown522]

There is no kish prime doin work here



Also on a serious note: it hurts me to see Marths approach with n-air and f-smash (the mid-high level Marths mostly), especially when the opponent is on the ground. I can see why they think that their character is bad when they do so.

 

[Deleted member]

There is no kish prime doin work here



Also on a serious note: it hurts me to see Marths approach with n-air and f-smash (the mid-high level Marths mostly), especially when the opponent is on the ground. I can see why they think that their character is bad when they do so.

wait until you see the marth players approaching sheik with a shuffle nair and defending their decision when it's clearly stupid.

i threw up in my mouth a little.

kevin: can you change your thread title to something funny that will draw attention? Something like "Dr Peepee doles out the harshness" or something lol

 

[Bones0]

He doesn't approach with fsmash. He just uses it to destroy my poorly spaced nair approaches. I approach with nair cause idgaf. :D

 

[stelzig]

i typically wd out of shield after powershields...but if you don't hold shield and powershield do you still have shield drop lag of 14 frames (with marth)? i heard m2k used to practice powershield fsmash all day and was just curious how that worked. with 14 frames of lag, you could just as easily powershield and WD out but you probably lose a few frames from trying to wavedash...

but yeah i've been thinking about learning to powershield fsmash at some point....

Powershielding makes you able to cancel shield drop with attacks instead of just grabs and jumps. That's the whole point. Powershielding does not enable you to wavedash earlier, but obviously you can bypass shield drop lag by hopping as always.

I don't think powershielding is particularely useful with marth, but powershield>fsmash is certainly alot faster than powershield>wdash>fsmash.

 

[unknown522]

He doesn't approach with fsmash. He just uses it to destroy my poorly spaced nair approaches. I approach with nair cause idgaf. :D

Ahh

 

[Strong Badam]

shield drop animation should be 15 w/ marth. 14 with peach/jiggs/zelda IIRC.
powershield lets you skip shieldrop animation and go straight to a grounded A or B move (other than dash attack). it also doesn't skip shieldstun.

 

[knightpraetor]

pp i'll try to post some situations later i have class can't talk atm.

strong bad, does that mean that you can dash immediately after the powershield? or only do ground moves?

unknown: agree, though nairs are actually really good in general against fox and falco..that and if they are likely to use platform (used to think fair was good, but nair them off platform into moves is too amazing)..screw trying to combo them zero to death, just get em offstage and gimp em.

and yeah, nair is nearly impossible to punish at proper spacings with CC.

is what I want to say..but then look again at how vague i am being....no one can have any clue what i'm saying so half the people will agree thinking about one situation and the rest will disagree thinking about others.. but what i really mean is slightly taking space with nair at wider spacings can't be run up and CCed very successfully. and since it autocancels the risk of going for it is low.

also against spacies that nair at you quickly fastfall the rising nair is significantly safer to take space with..done correctly, it can't be gotten under like fair.

you should ask pp what he thinks about actually approaching with intent to attack. i think he told me once he prefers fair like you said..personally i don't often approach with aerials period. i just mostly take space with them. if i actually intend to hit them it usually means they are playing passively and reacting or i followed their dash or they are boxed out...in that case I just short hop forward..and since you can choose to hit with fair or nair, you really shouldn't have to commit until you check the percent and whether fair is safe on CC. but i'll admit, i often have done what you commented on and thrown out the nair on teh grounded opponent just because i'm assuming they can CC 100% of the time...which is mostly a problem of not checking the percent...which mid-level players never do.


So i looked at my condensed notes and i'm embarrassed to post them..they are messy and i don't think anything is up to PP standards..but i will explain how i started it.

i basically started from neutral and asssumed fox either dashed in or dashed away and then started listing off my options overshot grab/dash attack and the ways in which fox can punish them if i whiff (though granted) in particular i noted that at the wider spacings i can get in the air before he can punish and at closer ones i can't...which makes it that closer spacings when missing it becomes better to try risky things like even grabbing again or dtilting as you will not get away..if they actually start dashdancing after putting you in lag you should be approaching..i think this was the biggest thing i noticed in my analysis of my game. I cannot for the life of me tell you what my opponents do if i manage to punish their punish attempt by immediately throwing out a move (and i have done grab to regrab with marth, every marth in the world has done that at least once)..but if they aren't coming in immediately, or doing dashdances and stuff you now have the initiative.

and i finally understood a little bit better why it was that mahone always said "against pp, you feel like even if he misses he instantly does 9 moves to cover each of the next moves in succession"

the realization i had is that most players are far too cowardly and try to run away..and while i had gotten past this point and punished, i had gotten content with punishing the fox for coming in immediately but not taken the next step and when they hesitated immediately retaken the initiative. This is probably obvious to some of you, though for others of you i know it is not (that I stupidly approached grounded sheik with nair is nothing compared to some of the dumb stuff i've seen..but we all have our flaws)

but pp finds hard punishes for your attempts to punish his lag (and the reality is that most characters only use 2-3 options to punish the lag. and often the variety can be narrowed down to merely aerial or ground approach...though this is why reverse wavelands is really good. Although reverse wavelands lose to waiting and approaching but they are definitely an amazing bait tool

the other big thing i noted is that i had this idea of just short hopping slightly back and punishing fox when he comes in that i tend to utilize sometimes in matches..and i would get punished and would keep trying to camp him like a moron....forcibly camping is horrible in this game and marth literally has dozens of options to wreck fox once he starts trying to wait for your aerials..if he's respecting your space, you take the fight to him.. i think pp has told me this a million times but i think my flaw was that I instead thought that what PP meant when he said you can start taking space was you can get in there and then dashdance back out like a moron the whole time and give up all the space you took. PP dashdances like crazy but i think it's noteworthy how often he attacks or at least throws out a move. And mango....that guy just never stops..he hates shield unless he's playing falcon vs sheik..then he ends up in it regardles

Anyway, basically i was one of those morons who just sits their and camps you and when you refuse to come i pretend to approach. Then like 95% of you in tourney just run in and get wrecked..while the other 15% eventually adapt and realize you can just take space for free or approach with overshot aerials...luckily i am very very good at punishing overshot aerials so I still beat lots of people. But then those people who just take space keep making me run out of space on the platform stages and i get wrecked.

I should point out that a lot of players have this problem and one of the main problems people have in their development is who they play with. for example, twitch has the best fox platform camp in the game and i'm pretty certain this is because approaching PP is too hard, so he hasn't learned how to approach marth with fox.

and when i watch other people worse than me play redd's fox, there is no option for them to actually approach after missing an aerial or being placed in lag at a distance where teh punish is not guaranteed (equivalent situations). The reason they don't get this option is because you first need to be able to punish the fox for coming in. but top level foxes are too fast...you must know your options and cannot react that is for certain..but they have been poorly trained to shield too much rather than taking the time to find options to actually punish the approach. The other problem is getting off moves after lag requires intimate knowledge of when your lag ends so you time your move correctly..its' far easier to shield

watching the other marths in NC a couple weeks ago they just dash too slowly when they get hit...this single tech skill is the most important one in the game...more important than phantasm cancel invincible waveland shine JC grab with fox...when i played fox i could do that, but even as fox if my dash timings were a little off it would hurt my game far more. a lost frame is gg at high level (only against fox and other stupidly fast characters..not saying they are broken or even acknowledging they are the best like some think, but definitely they punish missed frames more easily than other characters)

and the other problem is the learning curve for smash. The reality is in the midlevels shield is too good. The ability of players to pressure shields and get punishes is too low, so every time i beat someone in the first two years of smash I thought.." man his shield usage was really bad, you have so many more options out of shield than that"

but as you get into the higher levels shield becomes worse and worse..and instead of defense when placed in lag you want to be using movement. However, the problem is many players try grabbing or attacking once get punished for it and don't pay any attention to whether the punishes were overshot or standard (i know i never did)....the main way marth gets tagged is with overshot aerials. yet overshot aerials are completely punishable with grab/dtilt/any move..yet some players try this and the fox adapts he does the aerial only slightly overshot...and here the problem becomes that their tech skill is too bad and they can't dash away in time even though it's possible. obviously if the fox were nairing completely normal without overshooting at all you can dashdance away..even a new player can do that...but once they are right on top of you timing your dash on time becomes crucial. but basically fox cannot do an aerial that marth cannot punish unless marth is in massive amounts of lag...so why do we shield so much..ingrained habits, late dashes, and lack of the realization of how often getting caught in shield gets converted into damage/kills by top level players.

and for those that are past that level and have gotten their opponents to respect both their reaction times their aggression and no longer shield or dash away on every missed move...take the fight to them..don't allow a player to play passive waiting for you to break under the pressure of not knowing whether he will come in after the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd dashdance

oh random P.S. even though i don't remember what i wrote about - but PP also talked about how missed fairs aren't that bad and this is also one of the top 3 huge revelations in the last year for me...marth does not have to retreat after missing or be placed on the defensive....that is only true at like point blank perfectly able to punish outside fair spacing...2-3millimeters off and you can just play from there, meaning that you've taken space even though it looks like you are in danger.

The fact that i didn't know this is the main reason that i use AC nair baits so much in my game vs spacies..if fairs can take space even when they miss then fair is a much more viable tool than i ever imagined. I of course didn't believe PP so i went and tested it, so this is confirmed grade A experimental material...your opponent can be relatively close to your missed aerial and not have a guaranteed punish..i always thought they were just slow

 

[Divinokage]

Powershielding makes you able to cancel shield drop with attacks instead of just grabs and jumps. That's the whole point. Powershielding does not enable you to wavedash earlier, but obviously you can bypass shield drop lag by hopping as always.

I don't think powershielding is particularely useful with marth, but powershield>fsmash is certainly alot faster than powershield>wdash>fsmash.

Ya it's because when you PS with Marth, he slides so much depending on the move you PSed.. so it doesn't really give you much after it.. though I did manage to get some PS to tipper ftilt or utilt at times.

 

[Dr Peepee]

wait until you see the marth players approaching sheik with a shuffle nair and defending their decision when it's clearly stupid.

i threw up in my mouth a little.

kevin: can you change your thread title to something funny that will draw attention? Something like "Dr Peepee doles out the harshness" or something lol

Nair is sooo bad vs Sheik at neutral =(

And lmao I feel like I should have more good(Falco-related) stuff to share before changing the title again but I might just start changing it for fun soon. =p good idea haha

 

[stelzig]

knightpraetor: The quicker attacks is the only advantage of powershielding. You cannot dash out of it (if you could, then you should obviously also be able to dashattack )

Ya it's because when you PS with Marth, he slides so much depending on the move you PSed.. so it doesn't really give you much after it.. though I did manage to get some PS to tipper ftilt or utilt at times.

I was mostly thinking about his lack of useful moves out of powershield. I didn't consider sliding back, but I can only see that as a positive for marth.

 

[Strong Badam]

You can't dash out of powershield to whoever asked. Just specific IASA into ground moves other than dash attack.

 

[Deleted member]

i'm pretty sure that sheik's powershield laser > grab combo is the best thing in this game. at the very least, it's far and away the gayest.

socially taboo gay, not homosex gay, for clarification.

 

[Warhawk]

Fox's powershield -> upsmash is pretty cool looking.

 

[knightpraetor]

dangit..i'm so embarrassed i was definitely using nair on sheik at neutral..

it's residual habits i'm telling you, i use a lot of nair vs spacies, and i don't approach aerially unless they are out of space and nair will send them off stage

so i played against sheik and only have <20 matches of experience in the last year or so so I naturally have no clue what to do when i need to approach and just use a lot more nair than i should

also thanks for the powershielding tips. not sure i'd risk missing a powerhsield and shield dropping then unless the powershield move would result in a kill. I guess that means that if falco takes a powershield laser and falls close enough that i can't WD out of shield and maintain spacing easily i don't get any real advantage...but i can still WD down and maintain slightly better than neutral if he has laser stun time.. i am fine with him being forced onto the ground near me even if i don't have him under extreme pressure or an instant punish.

maybe if i had leffen's 95% powershield i would just powershield fsmash them pointblank all the time, but accidental shield drops are risky against falco

 

[KirbyKaze]

socially taboo gay, not homosex gay, for clarification.

I routinely combine the two.

 

[Strong Badam]

Every single day

 

[Deleted member]

I routinely combine the two.

i wouldn't put it past you to bang ice both in and out of smash. so yeah i'll buy it.