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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

Cactuar

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
Mogwai said:
It's an incredibly expressive and awesome language. It's also stupid as balls.

I just hate how when you're typing fast on the internet sometimes your brain just herp derps and types something ******** like "all be it" and then Cactuar thinks less of you until the end of time.
Click to expand...
Lol. Nah dude, I don't judge on things like that. I'm sure if we went back far enough we would get to the "Before Cactuar started proofreading and making a million edits in the moments after posting" era. 100% agree on albeit being a stupid word either way.
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
@Rubyiris
When someone WDs back vs. approaching SHL it can really mess you up because you've committed to that spacing so you can no longer follow up the laser with a SHFFL from that same spacing right away. What I like to do is SHL towards them, then in anticipation of their WD back, I just SHL again in place (or move forward a little, but I only play Marth so that gets me tippered :|). It's an extremely safe way of checking their habitual response to approaching with SHL, and when they refuse to WD back and give up space, you can often just land right on top of their shield with laser to shine, and from there either initiate shield pressure or just grab their ***.

P.S. Your posting has been 100x better, bro. Keep it up.



@Cactuar
Oh, you.
*:troll:*
 
Rubyiris

Rubyiris

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
6,033
Location
Tucson, AZ.
what I do vs people who tank lasers, or WD back is just shoot them more, lol. I'm mostly looking for them to jump foolishly, or try to shield.

If I can put myself in a position that max distance sh aerials will hit them regardless of spacing, then I'll go for it too.
 
V

V

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
963
I'm fairly new to Falco and I'd like to know how to jump and shine somebody on a platform and instantly land without lag. If somebody could explain I'd be grateful.

:phone:
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
V said:
I'm fairly new to Falco and I'd like to know how to jump and shine somebody on a platform and instantly land without lag. If somebody could explain I'd be grateful.

:phone:
Click to expand...
You can't land with no lag without ledge cancelling. What you are probably talking about is platform canceled shine. It's easiest to do on BF's side platforms. Just FH and shine when the platform goes through the bottom third of your shine and you should sort of stick to the platform. It's only slightly faster than just shining and wavelanding though, which is what virtually everyone does.

CK Momentum said:
sup guys? i have a problem with my falco and i don't think its lupus.
Click to expand...
It's never lupus. We're gonna need an LP.
 
Rubyiris

Rubyiris

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
6,033
Location
Tucson, AZ.
Bones0 said:
You can't land with no lag without ledge cancelling. What you are probably talking about is platform canceled shine. It's easiest to do on BF's side platforms. Just FH and shine when the platform goes through the bottom third of your shine and you should sort of stick to the platform. It's only slightly faster than just shining and wavelanding though, which is what virtually everyone does.



It's never lupus. We're gonna need an LP.
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shine landing would like to have a word with you. :3
 
leffen

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Peach fox is not unbeatable by any means, no matchups are really THAT bad (except for peach vs puff lol) in the higher tiers. It's still a clear disadvantage however, and probably worse than Sheik-Falcon, Sheik-Marth, Peach-ICs and the like, especially in NTSC (which changes the matchup by ~8points in foxs favor)

I'd personally not rank it like "65-35" or "60-40". I'll just say that if played correctly, its definitely beatable but its bad enough that it warrants thinking about a counterpick

edit: relevant lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7EB0GA3zII&feature=relmfu
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
Umbreon, whyyyyy? Olivia Wilde...*sigh* Now I feel like changing my avatar. I loved that show...

I don't see Peach/Fox being worse than Peach/ICs, but it may be close. I wish Armada and Hbox would do more Peach/Puff friendlies...
 
EWC

EWC

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
651
Location
norcal
Rubyiris said:
shine landing would like to have a word with you. :3
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Edge canceled wavelands would like a word with both of you. :3

btw I'll write some more comments on your videos in like 30 minutes just finish an argument on /a/ first.
 
giovannig22311

giovannig22311

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
408
Location
bayview ,wi
hey was up pp i had a question? is it very important to wavedash with falco? i see other falcos do and some dont, like wen u dair and there above 50% do u hav to chase them with a wavedash then dair to shine to keep the combo going. because it seems wen i dair i cant seem to catch them when they get hit they jus float to eathier side lol

:phone:
 
EWC

EWC

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
651
Location
norcal
Rubyiris said:
G1:

*Shield thing is stopping my momentum. It's a spacing trick I'm practicing. :3
*Could you give some specifics regarding my static spacing?

G2:

*Yeah I derped my combo. :(
*I've tried this previously in other tournaments vs Okami. when I laser less he starts to gay me with WD back spam. I do agree that I need to be less pattern orientated with my lasers though.

Thanks for the feedback. :3
Click to expand...
-That's a really good movement trick, and it's great that you are using it. Think you use it a little too much though. A lot of the times when you do it I think just dash wd in place or dash pivot or even just walking would be better. It's only really worth doing when you actually need the extra speed and precision it gives you. You should try to eliminate all the instances where it doesn't actually make you faster I guess.

Also just a thing to try if you feel like it: dash towards then away and shield stop sh AC bair. You can get the bair to extend really far pretty quickly and it's a great hitbox and pretty safe.

-Also sometimes you actually do just put up your shield from neutral postion without moving, when it really doesn't make sense to do so. Example: at 2:20 or so you do an uptilt and then shield right after. He dash attacks your shield and you miss the punish, and then you put up your shield again. Both of these times, he was far enough away that there was no immediate threat. Your main defense should be movement and active hitboxes; Treat shielding as a last resort. A good way to practice this is to spend a few matches not shielding at all, and just try really hard to not get hit. I think you'll be surprised how well you can get by without it.

This is also a perfect example of what I meant when I was talking about your spacing
being too static. It's kinda hard to give specific examples of what you should do differently in that regard, by the very nature of the thing. A general principle: you should try to obscure your active threat zones with unpredictable movement. By "active threat zone", I mean "all the spots on stage where you can put an attack faster than your opponent would be able to react to". On the object level, it mostly comes down to just moving a lot more from neutral postion. Just throw in more little dash dances, wave dashes, shield stop stuff is really good here, empty hops are good too. Last stock first game is a great example of you doing this right. Uhh I probably didn't explain that very well so if you need me to clarify I will.

-I really didn't pay very much attention to game 2 yesterday because I was tired but that was some damn fine falco there. good ****

-lasers. Okay so a pretty common thing people suggest is to try no laser falco for a while to make you appreciate lasers all the more, and I think this is good, but even better is to play minimal lasers falco. Try just not lasering very much, but only doing it when you really need it. So for example, if he starts wding back a lot when you shoot fewer lasers, try to start calling those and only shooting a laser when you think he's going to do it. The general principle here is to just make sure that every single laser you shoot has a purpose.
 
Mahone

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
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Blacksburg, VA
leffen said:
Peach fox is not unbeatable by any means, no matchups are really THAT bad (except for peach vs puff lol) in the higher tiers. It's still a clear disadvantage however, and probably worse than Sheik-Falcon, Sheik-Marth, Peach-ICs and the like, especially in NTSC (which changes the matchup by ~8points in foxs favor)

I'd personally not rank it like "65-35" or "60-40". I'll just say that if played correctly, its definitely beatable but its bad enough that it warrants thinking about a counterpick

edit: relevant lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7EB0GA3zII&feature=relmfu
Click to expand...
lol armada has brainwashed u into thinking peach puff is the worst matchup of the high tiers ROFL.... what a scrub
 
Meneks

Meneks

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
1,100
Location
chicago, illinois
giovannig22311 said:
hey was up pp i had a question? is it very important to wavedash with falco? i see other falcos do and some dont, like wen u dair and there above 50% do u hav to chase them with a wavedash then dair to shine to keep the combo going. because it seems wen i dair i cant seem to catch them when they get hit they jus float to eathier side lol

:phone:
Click to expand...
Wavedashing is VERY important.

Especially with falco
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
Ok, so this is going to sound very stupid. I expect it to. But no one has explained it to me, and I do fine without it. But Raynex told me once that there was no such thing as a stupid question. So, I'll just ask: Why are ledge hop double lasers supposed to be good? They seem very punishable, and place Falco in the worst of positions. I've been able to just stand at the ledge and react to them, often enough. It could be possible that I've just never seen (as in played against or watched on YT) a Falco use them well, but I find them to be the MOST dangerous risk you could possibly take from the ledge. One that is too risky to be worth using, in my opinion.

But please, by all means, prove me wrong. I want to be educated on this.
 
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