PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[JPOBS]

how important is wavedashing onto the stage from holding the ledge as falco? I learn to do it real fast as fox and its a real pain to get it down on falco, plus it can be disastrous if done wrong

old but i wanna talk about this anyway

ledge wavelanding can be really useful, and typically the best option for most chars, but (imo) falco has the best options from ledge of all the chars, and this is without even factoring in falco applying his waveland
he just has more options than the entire cast, namely, LHDL, waveland to platform and phantasm, (the last 2 only fox can do as well afaik)

that said, ledge wavelanding seems like a great idea. For some reason, its "easier" by shining first it seems, but the shine is also unnecessary. The waveland feels is incredibly fast, even moreso than fox. I dont know if it actually is, but when i do it with fox i can do it smoothly, but using the same timing as falco gives me really sloppy triangle hops

i dunno. i feel like it could obviously be great but its not necessary cuz his options are already so good. that aint ness

 

[Sion]

i love it when people learn how to powershield the first laser of the lhdl and freaking destroy your whole getup

...at like 0%

 

[Yakal]

i love it when people learn how to powershield the first laser of the lhdl and freaking destroy your whole getup

...at like 0%

Then just sdi back to the edge =)

 

[Sion]

not if you get something'd out of the power shield

 

[JPOBS]

dont always lhdl?

i agree though, mediocre falcos do it WAY too much. ledgehop waveland to platform is where its at

 

[Sion]

ledgehop waveland is really good, but so is fair from ledge

 

[JPOBS]

lol i've never done fair from ledge on purpose but the few times i got it on accident it *****

another really underrated tactic is simply drop->dj regrab a few times
doing something instantly from the ledge is predictable

 

[Sion]

accidental ****, haha.

regrabbing the ledge is sometimes scary for me because falco needs his whole body (exaggeration) to be touching the ledge for him to grab it. i sometimes end up jumping too high or low and getting punished for doing something like that. not to say that it isn't good though.

 

[JPOBS]

i used to be the same way, till i bothered to learn the timing on the absolute max distance to drop and allow for sweetspots everytime

an alternative semi-fix is to drop/fall and DI back such that when you DJ, you kinda end up slightly above the stage but away from it so that you kinda fall back onto the ledge. I dunno if that made sense, but i mean dont hug the wall on the way up cuz you'll get *****, DJ kinda away and then you'll kinda....hook...back onto the stage lol

 

[Sion]

i can kinda see what you mean, but i get super nervous in pressure matches, giving me more reason to fudge up an otherwise easy edgegrab. but yeah, regrabbing is definitely super smart and a bit underused.

if i feel unsafe in anyway, i just get up and roll back onto the stage lol

 

[JPOBS]

lmfao honestly, thats not even that bad.

the sigma against the normal options like getup, roll, ledgeattack and such is that they suck, so no one does it. As such, no one expects them dont really make preperations to cover em.

People get hit by ledgeattack ALL the time especailly the quick ones under 100% lol
except ledgejump. that one actually does suck

 

[unknown522]

WD from the ledge is the best possible option. If done perfectly (which isn't realistic, but there is a huge room for error), you get 14 frames of invincibility after the WD.

Anyways, without that LHDL is your next best option when the opponent is far from the edge. If they are close/trying to predict your LHDL, then you can just LH -> d-air/u-air. You can also just do the standard getup when you are below 100%, or LH and do nothing.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Only other thing I'd like to add to this is that Shiz started doing some ledgehop Nair, which caught people spacing just out of Dair's range.

 

[TemPesT-]

do you EVER use shine turn around bair, from the ledge? I used to think this seemed like a good option (at least to add mix up or whatever), but idk

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm always afraid to use it, but it's not a terrible option. I've seen plenty of people caught off guard by it.

 

[FoxLisk]

yeahhh lhdl at inappropriate times because im a mediocre falco

also one time i ledge hop faired by accident and managed to send my opponent at an unrecoverable angle somehow... it was mysterious but cool

 

[JPOBS]

ledgehop nair?
i've theory crafted using it but i figure its too risky cuz its really telagraphed and by the time the nair lands it'll be the weak hit and easily cc'd.

 

[X1-12]

ledgehop nair?
i've theory crafted using it but i figure its too risky cuz its really telagraphed and by the time the nair lands it'll be the weak hit and easily cc'd.

nair later then, or F-air

 

[ViciousEnd]

Fair has the most reach honestly, and hits slightly up too, so if they are trying to punish your standard ledge hop aerial with an aerial on their own it's probably the best. If they are going to cc it, then nair gives you the best hit stun for your money I think.

Ledgehop wd buffer roll or auto shine are like, the options I use the most. The wave dash to buffer roll puts a lot of space between you and the edge very fast. Shine is invincible and can start a free combo. It's important too to be able to control how far in stage you go with your LHDL. Sometimes they are dash dancing and you want to land as close to the edge as possible to stuff their run ins or powershields. Sometimes they are far away and you want to get as close to them as possible. A lot of these things are extremely applicable, you just have to be able to microtune them on the fly, just like the height of your LHDL, because high lasers, while usually bad, can stuff some weird stuff.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

I've recently picked up Falco, and, because it's just easier, I've been Shine>Bairing and Shine>Dairing while using the joystick to jump up. I've also noticed that when I shine>jump>dair or "pillar" I also use the joystick to jump. I never really use Y when I do stuff with the shine. Is this a bad habit to get into?

Waveshinning, I'm still working on. (since I used to main Fox and the transition between waveshining w/ him and falco is different)

 

[GREENTHUMB]

I've recently picked up Falco, and, because it's just easier, I've been Shine>Bairing and Shine>Dairing while using the joystick to jump up. I've also noticed that when I shine>jump>dair or "pillar" I also use the joystick to jump. I never really use Y when I do stuff with the shine. Is this a bad habit to get into?

Waveshinning, I'm still working on. (since I used to main Fox and the transition between waveshining w/ him and falco is different)

Its really hard to short hop consistently using the stick. I only use the stick to jump for shine -> *air.

use Y for pillaring, lasers, and most things that need the consistent short hop (or full hop when appropriate.)

edit: i guess some people use the stick for LHDL too.

 

[Sion]

yeah, short hopping with the stick could lead to problems. use X or Y to short hop efficiently.

waveshining is also very important. get into the habit of doing smooth/fast waveshines

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Alrighty. I guess I got another question for you guys: what would be a good secondary for a Falco main? I'm thinkin Falcon just cuz he kills nana way ez and Peach isn't exactly a hard matchup w/ him either.

 

[Sion]

think of it this way: most space animal mains secondary the other one. the idea of gameplay is generally the same and it doesn't require too much to switch from one to another.

i think going getting a fox secondary wouldn't be too bad because it helps acquire speed and precision. personally, i think pure mains master their character better, but it's all up to you. falcon wouldn't be a bad choice either, i'm just giving you what i think would be easiest/best

 

[StealthyGunnar]

I don't know... It seems the more I play with Falco the worse I'm getting, today at least. I've been improving but today I guess was just a bad day.

And is there any reason to use Falco's Fair??? Rarely I use it, on accident mostly, and it just is terrible. Also, when would you use his nair? I find that bair usually finishes them quicker. I don't shine>nair really ever. I just use it I guess if I'm trying to keep my bair fresh.

 

[Lovage]

do you EVER use shine turn around bair, from the ledge? I used to think this seemed like a good option (at least to add mix up or whatever), but idk

you can try it if you're a true baller

if not you're gonna get nair'd and killed 99% of the time

 

[JPOBS]

Alrighty. I guess I got another question for you guys: what would be a good secondary for a Falco main? I'm thinkin Falcon just cuz he kills nana way ez and Peach isn't exactly a hard matchup w/ him either.

think of it this way: most space animal mains secondary the other one. the idea of gameplay is generally the same and it doesn't require too much to switch from one to another.

I second this notion. Co-maining both fox and falco covers every single matchup in the game and pretty much garuntees you never have to play a disadvantageous matchup (the point of having a secondary in the first place) except on the odd time you get unlucky on the double blind. i.e. you pick falco and the opponent picks peach.

even then though, falco doesnt have a matchup worst than even, so you can secondary whomever you please really.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I stubbornly cling to the notion that space animal + ranged character is still amazing.

 

[JPOBS]

ranged characters dont have blinkers.

no thanks.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ranged characters can also be played without as much tech skill.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I stubbornly cling to the notion that space animal + ranged character is still amazing.

what do you consider peach/falcon. Are they ranged characters?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah basically. I mean, they win by poking with ranged moves (Falcon Nair/Bair, Peach Fair and other crap) and trying to force mistakes via zoning so yeah it's the same thing. Sheik, Marth, and Puff are more of the poster-boy characters for spamming range but Peach and Falcon do it too so I'd throw them in.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

so basically yur saying the perfect combo is a spacy and a good non spacy

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah I could go with that.

Just don't pick like Mario or something to be your backup. I also think ICs suck as a secondary because they're too god**** complicated to learn and play and be good with.

 

[JPOBS]

Ranged characters can also be played without as much tech skill.

ya

switching to sheik and marth in friendlies for a few games is really relaxing and fun because the lack of energy required to play yet stay competitive

 

[#HBC | Mac]

how are you supposed to DI when you get backthrown off the edge in falco dittos?

also, is there like any rule of thumb for how you should DI to get out of marth's uptilt combos/cg?

also, how do you tech counters?

 

[Jartravious]

also, is there like any rule of thumb for how you should DI to get out of marth's uptilt combos/cg?

If I remember correctly, I once overheard NES n00b talking to a friend that plays C.Falcon about escaping Marth's Up-tilts by DI-ing towards Marth (so I guess down and in) because the key was to avoid the tipper hitbox and get to the ground for a tech or something. Could be totally wrong though.

 

[JPOBS]

how are you supposed to DI when you get backthrown off the edge in falco dittos?

also, is there like any rule of thumb for how you should DI to get out of marth's uptilt combos/cg?

also, how do you tech counters?

DI the back throw offstage so he cant get cheap regrabs and ftilts. But even then, if you DI in, theres not anything really devastating he can do directly from the throw. Just dont jump into fsmashs.

rule of thumb for marth uptilt combos is to DI through his back aka DI the way the sword is swinging. That gives you maximum momentum in that direction and you can tech the ground and get away pretty easily. Another thing you can try is if you're at low percent, DI to a platform if avaible, land with no tech on the platform and hold down to asdi/cc the uptilt then gtfo

teching counters has a much later timing that teching anything else. You just have to wait much much later on hitting L/R

 

[Sion]

i've been experimenting with an up and away DI. not exactly sure if it works for falco's backthrow though lol

 

[AvengerAngel]

Does anybody know how does the lazer lock work? I mean that stuff you do when you shoot a lazer to an opponent on the ground and force their tech.
More specifically: when should the lazer hit my opponent? I've got the feeling it works even when he's about to touch the ground (but not touching it yet), but I'm not sure o_O

I dunno if it makes sense, lol