PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[JPOBS]

i agree 100% with mogwai.

ganon matchup is easy. The most important think like mogwai said is to NOT be afraid of getting into a corner. Ganon is just waiting to bait a roll or full hop that he can dair or upair respectively.

if u just keep shooting him until he does something risky, its so easy to beat him.
Ganon is best when he's put fear into you and u do dumb things.

 

[Silent Wolf]

does anyone ever use shine, sh fair shield pressure? i havent really tried it out yet but it seems like it could be good if you throw it into your pressure every on e in a while. you can get 3 hits out in one short hop, and they would only expect 2 and try to react during the hitlag of the last one so you could probably just grab after that.

 

[Jartravious]

What do you guys think of f-tilt?

 

[stingers]

how do i beat your marth with rob?

 

[Mogwai]

does anyone ever use shine, sh fair shield pressure? i havent really tried it out yet but it seems like it could be good if you throw it into your pressure every on e in a while. you can get 3 hits out in one short hop, and they would only expect 2 and try to react during the hitlag of the last one so you could probably just grab after that.

wait, what?

I thought you could only get 2... I remember scotu made some post awhile back about how fair pillaring would be better than nair/dair pillaring if you could time the FF just right so that you land right after the 2nd hitbox, but I didn't think you could get 3 hits out.

either way, wouldn't they just let go of shield and CC **** the later fair hits once they caught on? (even if it turned out to be good on shields that is)

fair shield pressure always seems good in the abstract, but no one seems to ever put the time into testing/integrating it, so I'm just talking hypothetically anyway. would be cool if someone put some time into it.

EDIT: ftilt's a good poke and edgeguarding tool. better options most of the time, but it's still useful.

 

[FoxLisk]

wait, what?

I thought you could only get 2... I remember scotu made some post awhile back about how fair pillaring would be better than nair/dair pillaring if you could time the FF just right so that you land right after the 2nd hitbox, but I didn't think you could get 3 hits out.

based on SW's wording, he's counting the shine. he said 'they'd only be expecting 2,' and obviously nair/bair only put out one hitbox in the air. so... yes.

 

[Silent Wolf]

@mogwai, they wouldnt be able to let their shield down between the hits.

 

[mastermoo420]

Falco's of SWF, what things that a Fox can do to you do you hate? :3

 

[Mogwai]

based on SW's wording, he's counting the shine. he said 'they'd only be expecting 2,' and obviously nair/bair only put out one hitbox in the air. so... yes.

hmmm, ok, I guess it's weird wording... the "3 hits in 1 short hop" thing throws me off cause the shine is after the short hop, but ok, I guess I can see what he means.

@mogwai, they wouldnt be able to let their shield down between the hits.

i know they can't between the first 2 hits, but for some reason I think they can between the later hits (since they generate less shield stun). again, I was saying that because I thought you meant 3 fair hits, so feel free to ignore the criticism... 2 fair hits -> shine shield pressure has been proven theoretically sound, but still no one does it.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Eh, I'll start giving it a try.

 

[JPOBS]

my understanding of multi hit moves is that they generate less sheild stun but have relatively laggy L-cancels.

so wouldnt falco's fair be a lot like fox's dair?
this game has been out for a decade, why havent any falco mains tried fair? seems pretty silly to ignore it for 10 years =/

 

[Mogwai]

because there's never really been a necessity for it? I mean, Falco shield pressure is great without it and the theorycrafting on fair states that you need flawless fast fall timing + if they just happen to not be shielding, hitting with fair is less useful than nair/dair.

 

[FoxLisk]

because there's never really been a necessity for it? I mean, Falco shield pressure is great without it and the theorycrafting on fair states that you need flawless fast fall timing + if they just happen to not be shielding, hitting with fair is less useful than nair/dair.

this. if you start doing it a lot, they will simply learn to not shield your approach and then CC grab your fair. however, training someone to do this can get you free dairs. so i guess it might work. they can still just shield it an dreact to your shield pressure as usual, though, since all the top characters have found plenty of ways to get out of that unless you're outsmarting them. all it offers is one more slightly suboptimal way to trick someone.

 

[X1-12]

about fair pillar w/ 2 hits:
if you fair the frame you leave the ground, you can FF asap, and hit w/ the second hit the frame before you land. This yields a 6 frame disadvantage, allowing exactly enough time to shield grab between fair and shine.
once you shine, however, there's a 7 frame window before a fair can come out again, allowing a 2 frame window to shield grab, and even allowing some usamshes to hit. Between hits of the fair, there's only 2 frames of opening, so nothing but a spot dodge could be used. While this technique is overall safer than a normal pillar, it still has the same weakness: it can be rolled out of.

go go go go

 

[unknown522]

Yeah, I've had quite a few people point that out to me as well. I'll start working on that more.

Thanks man!

np. Anytime man.

 

[Silent Wolf]

@guy - nah I meant shine then 3 hits of fair. It doesn't matter how much hit lag it gives them, what I'm saying is there's no way they would expect a 3rd hit and they'd probably try to grab during the hit lag of the 3rd hit because they didn't see a fast fall and only expected 2.

I'm not saying its really useful or anything, it would just be cool to throw it in every once in a while.

 

[X1-12]

I don't know if you can SH F-air with 3 hits, you technically have 25 frames air time (with SH no FF) and 3rd hit should come out on frame 24, but when you hit a shield each aerial hit lasts longer does it not? meaning you wouldn't be able to get it out in time. even if you could it'd be tough

 

[Mogwai]

when you're in hitlag (what makes the hits last longer), you remain stationary, so assuming your other frame data is kosher, you should be able to get 3 hits out in a short hop.

 

[Winston]

you're frozen in place during the hitlag, so it doesn't affect how many hits of the fair you can get out.

 

[X1-12]

okies, just tested it on 1/4 speed and you can do this, sorry for mixup, thanks to SDM for frames

 

[unknown522]

so PP, I hear that you lost in GFs to Yayuz. (with fox/falco)

explain.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's a story I can't really tell, but just trust me when I say it shouldn't happen again.

 

[JPOBS]

when/where was this?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Last weekend at a local NC tournament(called Splash).

Vids should be up soonish if they aren't already.

 

[stingers]

how do i beat your marth with rob?

10questions

 

[Dr Peepee]

Dang it Stongers....

Besides you did it last time we played anyway.

 

[stingers]

you won the set

 

[unknown522]

nvm. maybe another time.

 

[FoxLisk]

so i was trying to watch those videos but the video quality was really low and all i could focus on was Falco's angry, imposing glare, and I couldnt get anything out of it... will the vids be up on youtube or somewhere with smoother quality eventually?

 

[unknown522]

alright, I'll re-post if they get put on youtube.

sorry about that.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

It's a story I can't really tell, but just trust me when I say it shouldn't happen again.

I'd be upset if it was anyone else who beat you but everlasting yay is the most beastly mother ****ing **** ****er that I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

With that being said, I was playing a sheik a couple of days ago and they were Smash DI-ing up during my Shine Dair Combos so he would have enough time to throw out a Nair before I could do stuff when I land on the ground.

Is this a reliable way to get out of Falco's combos? Or is it just that my timing is off?

If it's the former then what do I do instead of Utilt/shine when I land?

 

[Silent Wolf]

I'd be upset if it was anyone else who beat you but everlasting yay is the most beastly mother ****ing **** ****er that I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

With that being said, I was playing a sheik a couple of days ago and they were Smash DI-ing up during my Shine Dair Combos so he would have enough time to throw out a Nair before I could do stuff when I land on the ground.

Is this a reliable way to get out of Falco's combos? Or is it just that my timing is off?

If it's the former then what do I do instead of Utilt/shine when I land?

it is a reliable way to get out of falcos combos. when you smash DI you have way less hit lag. it depends on where they are. if theyre higher up you can get an utilt past a lot of nairs, shine wont work if they can get an aerial out though. you can usually tell when they smash DI so you could walk to the side a little bit then utilt them when they land/near when they land.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

It's a story I can't really tell, but just trust me when I say it shouldn't happen again.

I knew it was a fluke.

 

[FoxLisk]

I knew it was a fluke.

can someone tell me where i can find videos of this? are they up?

 

[DippnDots]

meatspin might have them up already, not too sure about lemonparty anymore :[

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

can someone tell me where i can find videos of this? are they up?

Pretty sure the person who is uploading them hasn't put them up yet. Could be wrong.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

how do i beat your marth with rob?

you stop playing brawl like a stupid scrub

 

[stingers]

haha its always the eurofags

 

[MooseEatsBear]

Yo, if PeePee still actually checks this thread, how could I actually implement more laz0rz in my game? I'm one of those "non-blaster" Falco's, moving him waaaay down the tiers, so I wanna figure out when to laser more often. Hints?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yo, if PeePee still actually checks this thread, how could I actually implement more laz0rz in my game? I'm one of those "non-blaster" Falco's, moving him waaaay down the tiers, so I wanna figure out when to laser more often. Hints?

Lasers are best to use when you want to lock someone in place or set up an approach, but it's all situational. Shooting them high so people don't jump, or doing run offstage double jump onstage double laser to lock someone down is only good when your opponent is....on the ground obviously. You have to work on being a step ahead of your opponent, so learn when they try to jump OOS or what their platform movement is like or which laser approaches are countered(like approaching laser to Dair or laser in close to them to grab) and you can kinda learn when lasers are effective for you.

Kinda vague, so ask if it doesn't make sense.