PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[choknater]

one thing i noticed mango doing at genesis 2 is bringing back dat 08 shield pressure where he just stays in the middle of their shield and does a late dair. you dont always have to pbody them with retreating stuff. if they dont shield grab, they are safe when you retreat. thats why pressure is pressure! THE PRAHHSHAA

everyone tries to pbody all the time... people only fell for it when it WASN'T done all the time. aggression = mixup! pp i know you weren't in your best condition but when i conversed with people, we concluded that the reason you were losing was because you weren't really mixing it up all that much. i think that systematic falco style can get figured out, even if it has historically been so effective for you. i know you DO mixup, but there's even more options that you can do! u got this mr nanney

 

[Lightsyde]

Kevin knows more mixups than anyone I have ever played.

Don't let the bird flu fool you.

 

[choknater]

im sure he knows them

just has to use them!!!

 

[Veetaak]

Mango's shield pressure is so sexy. Has anyone tried mixing in doubleshine grabs or just doubleshine + stuff in general when pressuring (frame perfect ones, not the shine-->half SH shine-->Full jump-->waveland on a platform) or is it hard to be consistent with it or maybe easy to get out of?

 

[Mogwai]

doubleshine grab is pretty redundant. Still loses to buffer spotdodge, still nets a grab vs. hold shield, still gives you a small frame advantage vs. buffered rolls. I just use double shine pillar as a way to **** with their OoS timings vs. my shield pressure and mix in shinegrabs to keep them honest about just holding their shield.

 

[Lightsyde]

im sure he knows them

just has to use them!!!

I know he knows them because he's used them on me.

Like I said but backwards, you fool flu bird the let don't.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP why don't you ever shorten illusions

Because I can't consistently <.<

run away, wavedash back, back-air is a cool trick. The wavedash back adds some deceiving length to the bair. They think you're vulnerable then BAM kick to the face

LOL sure I'll keep it in mind. I feel like you brought this up before and I forgot but I'm not sure.

one thing i noticed mango doing at genesis 2 is bringing back dat 08 shield pressure where he just stays in the middle of their shield and does a late dair. you dont always have to pbody them with retreating stuff. if they dont shield grab, they are safe when you retreat. thats why pressure is pressure! THE PRAHHSHAA

everyone tries to pbody all the time... people only fell for it when it WASN'T done all the time. aggression = mixup! pp i know you weren't in your best condition but when i conversed with people, we concluded that the reason you were losing was because you weren't really mixing it up all that much. i think that systematic falco style can get figured out, even if it has historically been so effective for you. i know you DO mixup, but there's even more options that you can do! u got this mr nanney

Yes, I feel like one of the reasons I couldn't crutch on my normal stuff is because it wasn't unique anymore lol. I'll have to get tricky now if I want to stay ahead of the game, and I believe that it certainly does include things like delayed Dairs.

When I get healthy and play more Falco I'll have to be very conscious of what I'm doing over and over and start playing with it.

 

[Rubyiris]

sveet knows wassup. I ****ing hate fighting foxes as falco. good thing I'm a marth main!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Mooooooose destroyed my fox last time we played, but i wasn't nearly my best.

 

[Rubyiris]

just rush the bird down. hes slower than you.

seriously, if you're relatively consistent technically and you can space Nair at the tip, you beat out all of his options.

 

[Moooose]

i think i should elaborate a little more. so one situation it works for is when fox is runnin around on the platforms bein a ***** while you're controlling center stage. you keep bairing and uptilting BUT HE WONT COME IN. WHAT TO DO!?!??!?! so this works pretty well to bait him coming in with a nair or something. the dash away makes him thinks theres an opening then you wd back SH bair if you're covered from above by a platform, or full hop bair if you're not. the full hop bair is more offensive, and you can surprise them and it can catch them while theyre running around on the top platform of like dreamland/battlefield, not expecting it. The wavedash back really does add some surprising reach, so TRY IT OUT. i think it might be a decent mixup for approaches too, a solid way to get that bair in their face and you can probably cross up their shield too

 

[Dr Peepee]

It can be tough to do because of how much Falco can control the stage, but if one can pull off rushdown vs Falco then I believe they can keep rolling with the momentum vs him because he is slower and things like lasers can be punished pretty hard on startup lag.

As Fox you can play it many ways though so it doesn't have to be restricted to rushdown at all.

Edit: Yes Moose all of that is part of why it's a good mixup, I understood it when you first mentioned it which is why I genuinely need to mess around with it. =)

 

[Moooose]

yay doc pp thinks i have a good idea. life is complete

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

except he still has options to beat you. If you jump and nair and he keeps running, you miss and he hits you. If you try to overshoot and he bairs, youre gonna get hurt. If hes low% and you nair him... he CC shines and you get hurt... bad.

Fox's best rushdown option against falco is running shine and then tech chase the **** out of him.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Eh well that's just theory bros. You get the read and Nair can still destroy Falco. Everything has it's place in the matchup so I wouldn't get bogged down with worry about CC or Bair if you do this or that. I mean if those tactics aren't working then try something different like dash canceled shine but I'd be surprised if you couldn't at least mix Nair and stuff like JC Usmash in if you were reading/predicting decently.

But yes tech chasing Falco will definitely **** him lol.

 

[Wenbobular]

Somehow shortening being a technical issue never crossed my mind at all <.< I just basically treat it as doubletapping B because there's hardly any delay between the first and 2nd button press (as opposed to Fox)

It just pains me every time I see a space animal do a full length illusion at someone standing anywhere that isn't the very edge of the stage and get *****

 

[Moooose]

Somehow shortening being a technical issue never crossed my mind at all <.< I just basically treat it as doubletapping B because there's hardly any delay between the first and 2nd button press (as opposed to Fox)

It just pains me every time I see a space animal do a full length illusion at someone standing anywhere that isn't the very edge of the stage and get *****

i agree with shortened illusion being broken. the metagame hasnt caught up with punishing that **** yet.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Eh well that's just theory bros. You get the read and Nair can still destroy Falco. Everything has it's place in the matchup so I wouldn't get bogged down with worry about CC or Bair if you do this or that. I mean if those tactics aren't working then try something different like dash canceled shine but I'd be surprised if you couldn't at least mix Nair and stuff like JC Usmash in if you were reading/predicting decently.

But yes tech chasing Falco will definitely **** him lol.

yes i agree, i was just giving examples. I actually really enjoy the fox/falco match up and i've beaten most of the best falcos in the MW (except moose)

 

[Wenbobular]

Most people anyways
My normal training partners have started walking to the very edge and just edgehogging instead of standard bad onstage edgehogs

 

[genkaku]

maybe it's because I played puff, but watching for shortened illusions was one of the first things I learned to do.
It just doesn't seem that hard to anticipate or punish.

Also, are you going to write that mango post you were talking about before genesis2, PP?

 

[Wenbobular]

Probably because Puff can go out there to edgeguard illusions while easily dropping to get Firefoxes too ... <_< most characters have to commit to one option or another in some way

When you're in shorten range you get past so many on stage edgeguards it's ridiculous ... and sometimes it's just strictly better because they'll be waiting completely out of range of the ledge and there's no reason not to shorten

I guess if you're not comfortable getting off the ledge again, but you have one of the best ledgedashes in the game, and if you're not comfortable ledgedashing you STILL have LHDL ...

 

[Rubyiris]

if fox spaces Nair and bair properly CC options miss him entirely.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Somehow shortening being a technical issue never crossed my mind at all <.< I just basically treat it as doubletapping B because there's hardly any delay between the first and 2nd button press (as opposed to Fox)

It just pains me every time I see a space animal do a full length illusion at someone standing anywhere that isn't the very edge of the stage and get *****

It pains me too. XD I'll really get to work on mastering that now that I know I can't get away with the bad ones anymore lol. =p

maybe it's because I played puff, but watching for shortened illusions was one of the first things I learned to do.
It just doesn't seem that hard to anticipate or punish.

Also, are you going to write that mango post you were talking about before genesis2, PP?

Interesting first part.....

And yeah I'll write a Mango post because I feel there are things about him the community needs to know and I'm probably the only one with the means or desire to share them. Maybe I'll do that tonight or tomorrow.

 

[stingers]

do it after you teach me how to play brawl

 

[Veetaak]

I want to hear all of Mango's dirty secrets




I bet he is banging Megan Fox

 

[Bones0]

Shortening is definitely mad underused as well as underpunished. Even when people are prepared for it though, you can still get a lot of safe recoveries. I've almost defaulted my recovery process to lining up for a ledge cancel on the side platform, and then shortening based on how close they are. It's almost impossible for any character to cover both options, and they'll often put themselves in harms way trying to. For instance, if they are by the ledge waiting for the shorten and you just go for the ledge cancel, they will often instinctively chase you towards the center of the stage and you can just come down from the ledge cancel with a huge *** bair to get them off stage. If they read the ledge cancel they will be near center stage and by the time they react to your shorten, you can already be coming off the ledge with a LHDL, ledge dash, or even more mindgames is then doing a jump back ledge cancel to get to the center of the stage they just left from.

 

[Fågelholken]

Just curious PP, what exactly changed when you were sick? Like, what was it about it that made you play worse? Was it reaction time, or just a hard time focusing? Would be interesting to know! Thanks.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Just curious PP, what exactly changed when you were sick? Like, what was it about it that made you play worse? Was it reaction time, or just a hard time focusing? Would be interesting to know! Thanks.

I have a variety of tactics in my head I switch between when I play and I play based on feelings and conditioning I can almost "feel" while playing. It's pretty intuitive for me despite it being somewhat straightforward and textbook.

When I played while sick, I couldn't think of tactics on the fly at all, and I often felt like I was playing through a fog of some sort. I even forgot how to play Melee at some points LOL and that was just embarrassing.

Reaction time was probably lowered, focus was harder and knowing I played worse allowed negative thoughts to rush into my head and distracted me further, as well as the WC crowd cheering against me all of the time(crowds usually don't affect me but I couldn't immerse myself in the game so it did).

By the end of it all I was so tired and done feeling that way that I was thinking about wanting to go to sleep at home half the time in matches lol.



-focusing
-loss of tactics and ability to immerse self in game
-reaction time lowered
-switch to conservative style to conserve energy(lower levels in general)

refer to the list to get the basics lol. I get on kicks when I'm asked about this lol. =p

 

[Brookman]

that 'feeling' is a sense of the opponent's mind. just thought I would try to clear that up in advance.

Honestly, PP it sounds like. . . did you have a high fever? ? or was it just a cold of sorts?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I had the flu which includes a fever(soaked the bed a few nights with sweat from it breaking but it also broke when I played Melee) on top of some cough caused by sinus drainage into my bronchial tubes. Oh and I also had chills a few times.

Unless a cold can do some of that stuff lol.

 

[Mahone]

Can you give me a table with your temperatures on each day... i'm not buying this whole "sick" thing

 

[Dr Peepee]

HAHAHAHA

nah I never had my temperature taken except at the doctor's office when I got back and I think I was still 99 at the time or something.

 

[Brookman]

Wow mahone. . . way to be a *******. Not that I am surprised.

 

[Rubyiris]

if he's drenching his bed I can ballpark it between 101-103.

I've personally had 105-106 fevers with a flu last two times I had legit influenza.

 

[Brookman]

Ya, sounds like you should probably be dead, ruby. I had lyme disease ~5 years back and I had a 104 where I literally saw dead people.

 

[stingers]

is there anything rubyiris isnt good at

 

[FoxLisk]

is there anything rubyiris isnt good at

GET ***** lol

ninja edit: brookman are you really that dense or is this some form of meta-trolling-fu with which i am unfamiliar

 

[Bones0]

Can you give me a table with your temperatures on each day... i'm not buying this whole "sick" thing

You should have just asked me. I wrote all of them down each night after sneaking into his hotel room. Would you like the oral or anal temperature readings? (sorry I forgot an extra thermometer PP; I accidentally did the anal readings first on day one...)

 

[Moooose]

It pains me too. XD I'll really get to work on mastering that now that I know I can't get away with the bad ones anymore lol. =p



Interesting first part.....

And yeah I'll write a Mango post because I feel there are things about him the community needs to know and I'm probably the only one with the means or desire to share them. Maybe I'll do that tonight or tomorrow.

predictions on what PP means? haha. my guess is that mango is trying to singlehandedly change the future of the metagame from gay to aggressive. mango4prez

 

[crush]

My dog has what I like to call infini-limes disease where unless he gets his monthly checkups his eyes and face and happiness will droop lower than the jonas bros popularity in 2009. Also in n out burger has a tendency to makemake you unsick