Walt
Smash Ace
oh cool. I never knew the mechanics on how float bouncing happened.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
what's amazing is that it has nothing to do with the bounce at all
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
I never attempt to get the shine after dthrow, everyone here techs it every time.
If I know someone won't tech, I'd rather jab reset them and punish that.
Most matchups you can get a hit of uthrow if done correctly which ends up being much more than a stale shine from a dthrow.
If I know someone won't tech, I'd rather jab reset them and punish that.
Most matchups you can get a hit of uthrow if done correctly which ends up being much more than a stale shine from a dthrow.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Wow Redact your CPUs tech Falco's d-throw? I wanna see this. That's ****.
I watched that edit materialize.
It was pretty funny.
But yeah comboing after a knockdown on Fox with shine is usually a pain so I try to uptilt or just smash him away.
It was pretty funny.
But yeah comboing after a knockdown on Fox with shine is usually a pain so I try to uptilt or just smash him away.
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
PAL cpus all improved and ****.
Nah I'm saying the people I normally play against, aka local players, normally tech it every time (the only person who doesn't tech it, is the best player in our country currently rofl) so I almost never dthrow.
You can do some of the dumbest **** ever when you know people are gonna tech it every time, ghetto *** tech chase resets like:
Dthrow -> SHL which way you think they are gonna roll -> grab them again and repeat
People get scared of the throw and try to not tech it anymore, try to hit you after the lazer, try to spot tech it instead of rolling, all of these things that put them in bad spots instead of rolling away then running.
But then again this is against Australians...
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
Dear discussion thread,
I thought about how to play better all day yesterday and today and ***** and got better with all of my characters when I played Twitch today. It was a good day.
Once I eliminate my watching the opponent/reading issues then I can start working real baiting tricks into my game. That mindgames stuff Mango thinks is lost from modern play. Lookin forward to it. =)
Also yeah I'm training Twitch too for anyone who cares.
I thought about how to play better all day yesterday and today and ***** and got better with all of my characters when I played Twitch today. It was a good day.
Once I eliminate my watching the opponent/reading issues then I can start working real baiting tricks into my game. That mindgames stuff Mango thinks is lost from modern play. Lookin forward to it. =)
Also yeah I'm training Twitch too for anyone who cares.
tw1n
Smash Champion
Lol come to NM and train me too 
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Mindgames are lost in modern play, whatttttt?
DJRome
Smash Hero
you should train him better to not lose to merck
MacD
Banned via Administration
zhu's gonna give me zhu training
BOUT TO **** YOUR ***** ***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
mikael's gonna give me mikael training.
SSBM_or_GTFO
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 92
Just looks like PP doing what PP does...
Fernandez
Smash Journeyman
uhm thats not really unusual, merck tried retreating bair so its not like he would shine(it would miss), peepee just punished it right
Somewhat. People play rather mechanically these days, including myself to a large degree(which I'm working on). I'll write about it and a couple other big things I feel compelled to write about today or tomorrow.
Yeah I haven't helped him learn to fight traditional Falcos(not ones like mine which don't exist yet for the most part) yet. Gimme a little time. =)you should train him better to not lose to merck
Okay well I'll keep playing Fox and Marth on Dop and **** you anyway.
!!!!
<3
Haha I just didn't expect him to shine I guess and I was right. I had the feeling that the Bair was super defensive so I just wanted to PUSH. Always good to go in on someone trying to wall before they get a solid defense set up anyway. Sometimes that can't happen but in this case it can haha.
D
Deleted member
Guest
generic gimmicks tend to work wonderfully in tandem with unorthodox approaches with high reward.
for example, with sheik you can dash away, dash in (single DD) and that's pretty weird with sheik. sheik can also dash attack at any time during the dash animation, so if you hit A for the dash attack at the last possible moment, it will look like she stops and then the lunge for the dash attack looks REALLY sudden and weird. put those 2 together and you can make her dash attack goofy as ****. then, instead of doing dash attack, do dash attack canceled grab. if you combine these things you get something really cool, but it's hard to describe as one single thing so anyone reading understands it.
i would imagine that this snapping dash animation is the same way. it looks like falco gets a random boost of speed out of the laggy turn around animation. IMO after that speed boost right when he goes back to normal run speed, roll dodge the same direction and shine. roll dodge into shine is like...."meh" as a tactic but something goofy into shine might put some merit to it.
Back when I had roll problems I got away with them a lot because they were weird and my shine/uptilt covered people trying to punish it well.
It's a principle(punishing roll lag that may not be there by the time you try to punish) that Mango played off of in my friendlies with him at Pound 5.
It's a principle(punishing roll lag that may not be there by the time you try to punish) that Mango played off of in my friendlies with him at Pound 5.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Mechanical? Doing what's right and what's most effective is what should be done. I guess it COULD be seen as mechanical.. but there's ample mindgames going on at least at top level. Do you mean the more general mid-level instead? Because then I would definitely see it more mechanical i suppose..
Haha and there it is. Right and most effective.....that's how everyone thinks of it these days. What if you know your opponent is looking for what's right and effective? Do you do worse options or just weird stuff to throw him off? Not anymore....you do a different "right" option. I'm not saying people back in the day played goofy or anything, but there were so many subtle layers to what people were doing then.....it's why we don't have high placing Marths anymore. That type of skill and trickery(threatening with your sword instead of positioning it JUST SO to cover options all of the time for example) seems to be a lost art to most these days. Everyone had their own style because they all struck out to figure the game out their own way.
Eh I just don't see much personality in smash like I used to. I feel like the "mindgames" Mango refers to rather than a "checklist" or what works and what doesn't in a given situation have been lost. Yes, there are mixups obviously and such, but it's just done in a different way now.
SSBM_or_GTFO
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 92
Makes sense to me. I'll definitely try it out at G6 since I have no one around to fight against.
On another note, I've been practicing in my freezing cold basement for the past week. I should probably practice elsewhere or heat that particular room up somehow. I can't play fast when my fingertips are cold. XD
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Can you really go back to the way it was? Things change because it has to change, people keep finding ways to destroy the current top of the world... no matter how. In reality, I don't think there is only a right way to beat someone, I do what I feel is right.. and thus a style gets created but this style I have is because of the countless battles I've had. (And now I'm trying to find new things to do in order to gain the edge or instill fear into people) As long as people still have the burning fire, the fury, the anger.. then, things will continue to change if not then it will stagnate at that "mechanical" level for example. =P
I know what you mean, the theory talks this past several months have always been like.. A beats B so you SHOULD do that. However, there are truly always choices in everything. =)
Edit: Melee is awesome because there's so much more freedom than other fighting games, and so the variety with it.
I know what you mean, the theory talks this past several months have always been like.. A beats B so you SHOULD do that. However, there are truly always choices in everything. =)
Edit: Melee is awesome because there's so much more freedom than other fighting games, and so the variety with it.
D
Deleted member
Guest
that you understand that much about marth suggests that you could be very good at him.
older styles aren't less effective at higher play, but they're definitely less effective at lower play where basic tech spam can smother them out.
older styles aren't less effective at higher play, but they're definitely less effective at lower play where basic tech spam can smother them out.
mers
Smash Ace
The bounce animation determines whether a downward hitting move pops them up or hits them against the stage again, right? Like, when you stomp a missed tech with Falcon, sometimes they pop up wonderfully and sometimes they just get grounded again.
I can do whatever I want to do LOL I've worked hard to get to my level of understanding of this game and these thoughts are designed to help me take it farther. Look at Mango, he's really the last top player from an era like that. REALLY look at what he's doing when he plays to see what I mean. His playstyle is so colorful and full of personality and he's ALWAYS doing new things...how many people can we say do that now? M2K's been pivot grabbing since 06/07 probably LOL he began the era of efficiency and that's why everyone likes it. It also happens to be easier....
And Melee allows for various styles to see success, which is why you can always see a new interesting talent rise to the top. Mango and now I just worry about the direction things are evolving, and I'm seeing if I can't head things off to try and take an old school evolution one bit farther, or possibly combine the two ways to play. The possibilities are numerous and interesting.
word at your last two lines haha.
Being able to really play the player at a higher level never truly stops being effective. =)
D
Deleted member
Guest
nigga please. i might end up being able to teach you something yet.
i wish i had your fingers without all the work to get there.
leffen
Smash Champion
I love mangos playstyle lol, its such a shame most people play like robots atm >_>.
I usually try to use more mindgames /reads in my game but I cant really do it cept for when Im feeling cocky as ****... maybe thats why mango has the attitude he has towards smash :>?
I usually try to use more mindgames /reads in my game but I cant really do it cept for when Im feeling cocky as ****... maybe thats why mango has the attitude he has towards smash :>?
Well now I'm curious about what you're talking about haha.
It's true, you probably won't be able to pull this stuff off without a helping of confidence, which is something else a lot of current smashers lack I think. If everyone believes they can read and **** their opponent, then it would work out so much better for them(on average).
D
Deleted member
Guest
"goodness" in a competitive game can only be relative. whenever you think "wow my opponent would be much better with the correct mentality" you should quietly thank them to yourself that they don't have the correct mentality. it is this difference that allows you to be better and to have more of that "goodness" that they do not have.
Oh, well yeah as my personal success goes yeah I'm thankful they don't have this "correct" mentality(I mean I wouldn't narrow it down to correct but I feel like everyone who can be successful has some important traits at the least), but overall the deterioration is unfortunate for players like Mango and eventually myself who will want a challenge at the top. I suppose the metagame in general would benefit from such improvement of smasher mentality on the whole as well.
I think it comes down to which aspect(s) of the game attract a player to the game in the first place.
For example, a friend of mine, who wants to play competitively, was initially attracted to the highly technical aspects of the game (he had a natural ability to JC shine like 30 times in a row- seriously). However, he struggles with really simple B&B techniques and gets extremely frustrated by the simplest competitive techniques and play styles.
On the other hand, some players get into the game and focus completely on the simplest techniques and then move completely into player vs. player psychology - or have a natural understanding of this area.
I think the most important skill in the game is patience. That's something that hordes and hordes of players - veterans and newbs alike- are lacking. I was playing with a friend today and he asked me,
"How do I beat a player that never approaches?" and I had to respond,
"I'm not approaching you >_>??"
I told him that he had to learn to test my patience and get more creative with his spacing to force actions from me. Initially after this advice he was doing well but eventually fell into his old play style habits.
/abrupt ending
For example, a friend of mine, who wants to play competitively, was initially attracted to the highly technical aspects of the game (he had a natural ability to JC shine like 30 times in a row- seriously). However, he struggles with really simple B&B techniques and gets extremely frustrated by the simplest competitive techniques and play styles.
On the other hand, some players get into the game and focus completely on the simplest techniques and then move completely into player vs. player psychology - or have a natural understanding of this area.
I think the most important skill in the game is patience. That's something that hordes and hordes of players - veterans and newbs alike- are lacking. I was playing with a friend today and he asked me,
"How do I beat a player that never approaches?" and I had to respond,
"I'm not approaching you >_>??"
I told him that he had to learn to test my patience and get more creative with his spacing to force actions from me. Initially after this advice he was doing well but eventually fell into his old play style habits.
/abrupt ending
SSBM_or_GTFO
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 92
I want to see 30 JC shines in a row without TAS. o.0
Walt
Smash Ace
Brookman just a note: It's spelled patience. Patients is like, hospital patients.
unknown522
Some guy
[E] I screamed "Owww! My appendix feels like they could burst!"
[E] "teacher teacher! Quick! I need a naked nurse!"
[Nurse] "What's the matter?"
[E] "I dunno my leg it hurts"
[Nurse] Leg?!? I thought you said it was your tummy?!?
[E] "Oh, I mean it is, But I also have a bum knee!"
[Nurse] "Mr Mathers, the fun and games are over. And just for that stunt, you're gonna get some extra homework"
[E] "but don't you wanna give me after school detention?"
[Nurse] "Nah. That bully wants to beat your *** and I'mma let him"
- Brain damage.
But yeah, reading the word nurse while listening to that song. Had to post it.
[E] "teacher teacher! Quick! I need a naked nurse!"
[Nurse] "What's the matter?"
[E] "I dunno my leg it hurts"
[Nurse] Leg?!? I thought you said it was your tummy?!?
[E] "Oh, I mean it is, But I also have a bum knee!"
[Nurse] "Mr Mathers, the fun and games are over. And just for that stunt, you're gonna get some extra homework"
[E] "but don't you wanna give me after school detention?"
[Nurse] "Nah. That bully wants to beat your *** and I'mma let him"
- Brain damage.
But yeah, reading the word nurse while listening to that song. Had to post it.
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
good ****, brookman
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well I'd like to think that I helped changed the metagame a little bit... Like actually going for the shield stab in order to put added pressure for the opponent. Kage special.. =P I believe I was the first one to do things like that and now when I play I sometimes surprise myself even now with some new stuff that actually worked the way it did and hopefully it can create something else entirely... With that said, you really want to stay on top eh? So you are trying to find ways in order to increase the gap between you and the rest? Sounds like fun actually...
I'm going to do everything to attempt to surpass that level even though I play a slightly crappier character since that's the only way I think I'm going to be able to do it anyway. =)