Possibly Useful OOS Option? Improving Our Ground Game

[Supermodel From Paris]

I guess CRASHiC can't make a video or he already would have.

No no no Supermodel.
Jab during the dsmash window to move them down.

My wii isn't working right now. I'm on IRC (come to IRC, dude ) and Nef's gonna check it out after he eats dinner.

 

[Nefarious B]

I'm just not seeing how you're getting them into the prone position to jab lock. That means this is something different from the typical dsmash chain.

 

[CRASHiC]

Yeah, I'm going to ask my girlfriend for a capture card for our aniversery, so I can start making videos for the DDD involving chaingrab tricks.
At the moment, I have no way to record. Nefarious sounds like he understands though.

If I had not made it clear yet. You downsmash, then jab. If the jab is spaced right, you will move them down, putting their feet slightly below the ground. When the stun animation is over, they will go into the prone animation.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Nefarious, it has something to do with the jab. He says he's dsmashing them after the jab, so maybe it's the way the jab interacts with the dsmash animation.

Also:

<Nefarious> he says it allows them to be jab locked
<Nefarious> it should also mean that they can tech

 

[CRASHiC]

No no no, downsmash then jab right away, while still in the stun animation. If spaced right, it moves their body downwards, while still keeping them in the stun animation. If not, it moves them up, and they are still in the stun animation. If they moved down, they will fall into the prone animation immedetly once the stun animation is over.

This is why I need a capture card.

Also, only jab once.

 

[Tien2500]

No no no Supermodel.
Jab during the dsmash window to move them down, keeping them in the stun animation.

No Tien, there is no footstool.

Whenever I've done this they have enough time before hitting the ground to jump/airdodge/tech. They fall a bit lower after the jab but they still have time.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I get you. Sorry, I posted that after I read what you had to say.

Anyway this sounds extremely severe. If this is legit and works on more than one character we have an unbelievably good tech chase (they can tech, right?)

But it sounds to me like they could probably jump.

 

[CRASHiC]

Whenever I've done this they have enough time before hitting the ground to jump/airdodge/tech. They fall a bit lower after the jab but they still have time.

Did you do it at 58 with Falco? Below that they do have the time to tech. After words, they have enough momentum to throw them immedetly down. Think about how as each their percent increases, they move faster and faster after the stun animation. That is what is happening here, until eventually the momentum pushes them to far and fast upwards to call the fall.

Anyway this sounds extremely severe. If this is legit and works on more than one character we have an unbelievably good tech chase (they can tech, right?)

Not at proper percents.

 

[Nefarious B]

I'm eating dinner then I'll check this out. To be perfectly honest, I'm really skeptical, because something of that magnitude should have been found a long time ago. Also, most dsmash stuff can be airdodged or jumped out of. And if it does throw them on the ground like you say, they can generally tech something like that (this would still be good though if they could tech).

However, after finding the stuff we can do using dsmash's weird stun properties with bananas, I'm thinking that it's one of the few things we haven't really tested so who knows. I'll let you know what i find in a bit.

Also, for the sake of testing, did you dsmash to get them to 58%? Or dsmash when they're already at 58 to get them to 69?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

scepticle

WHAT

10char

 

[Nefarious B]

don't hate

 

[CRASHiC]

don't hate

EDIT-
At the very least, we should start doing downsmash, jab, downsmash, stun follow up for the extra damage, how ever small, its always good for the damage.

 

[Nefarious B]

LOL you post something like that in the one serious thread this board has had in like the last month. Get that **** outa here

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I love dedede posters

 

[Tien2500]

Did you do it at 58 with Falco? Below that they do have the time to tech. After words, they have enough momentum to throw them immedetly down. Think about how as each their percent increases, they move faster and faster after the stun animation. That is what is happening here, until eventually the momentum pushes them to far and fast upwards to call the fall.



Not at proper percents.

Yeah I did it at 58%.

 

[CRASHiC]

For some reason, I'm having trouble recreating this right now. I'm not really sure what I'm doing differently than before.

 

[Tien2500]

Yeah I've had trouble getting the jab part to move them down consistently too. You can also use two jabs (it won't knock them out of stun) so maybe that could be useful.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

My thinking is that it depends which part of the shaking dsmash animation they're in... which would make this almost useless

 

[CRASHiC]

No, it depends on which way they DI.
I can do this when the opponent is set on attack, but not when they are on stand.
So, question, when people are stuck in our downsmash, do they tend to smash their controller?
Does smashing your controller reduce your time in the stun animation, or do people at least think it does?
If so, this will have random sporadic use.
However, I still encourage downsmash-jab-downsmash-follow up for the extra 2% (any step closer to kill is good) and the potential for the downsmash-jab-downsmash-lock-downsmahs-jab-downsmash-follow up lol.
Of course, I could be wrong. If someone proves the DI theory wrong, that be great hahahah.

And yeah, they can tech, but the timing is mad strict, and because the stun animation changes at every percent, its difficult to time it.

 

[Nefarious B]

So this throws them onto the ground? They don't go into the air at all? Because I was trying it out and the it seemed pretty normal behavior except that sometimes the while in the throw Falco would swerve really oddly.

 

[CRASHiC]

Put them on a high enough level to where they try to mash out of it, they'll DI randomly.
If they DI down or towards you when you punch them, they'll get sent downwards.
If they DI more forwards or away from you, you can still downsmash and do your follow up.
Get your free 2% regardless of how they DI
The only way I see this combo happening is if people are trying to DI or mash out during the stun animation. Do they do that?

 

[ADHD]

The diddy infinite doesn't work because diddy can roll before the dsmash comes out on a grab release. The regular computer when put not walk will not show how fast the trip animation really lasts, thus making it appear much longer than it really is.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It isn't/wasn't really an infinite

 

[NickRiddle]

Put them on a high enough level to where they try to mash out of it, they'll DI randomly.
If they DI down or towards you when you punch them, they'll get sent downwards.
If they DI more forwards or away from you, you can still downsmash and do your follow up.
Get your free 2% regardless of how they DI
The only way I see this combo happening is if people are trying to DI or mash out during the stun animation. Do they do that?

People who don't know about ZSS mash... those people also do not beat good ZSS players, and die at 90 from a bair on the edge.

 

[noradseven]

What do you guys mean by mash I thought ZSS stun was a set time and mashing didn't get you out earlier, also yeah jabbing a stunned oppenent can be used for a quick refresh, d-smash, jabx2, jabx2, grab, jabs, f-toss will p. much unscale anything.

 

[CRASHiC]

People who don't know about ZSS mash... those people also do not beat good ZSS players, and die at 90 from a bair on the edge.

Well then, we should educate people about mashing out of the stun animation, so that we can pull this off.
I had never heard before that the stun could be mashed out of.

 

[Kith]

Well then, we should educate people about mashing out of the stun animation, so that we can pull this off.
I had never heard before that the stun could be mashed out of.

NickRiddle on a friend's computer.
You CANNOT mash out of it Sorry if you misunderstood.

 

[sasook]

People who don't know about ZSS mash... those people also do not beat good ZSS players, and die at 90 from a bair on the edge.

I mash. =/

You can't mash out of it and get out early, but you can alter the direction in which you get released. It's how I made SFP miss the dsmashx2 -> bair a couple of times when we played on lolwifi.

 

[CRASHiC]

If your opponent is mashing, this has a high probability to work, because if they DI down or towards you during the jab, they will fall downwards after the stun animation, where they will either tech or be set up for the lock, which can lead into another Downsmash-jab-downsmash. Even if they happened to DI up, an extra 2% will be granted for you.
Someone proposed that it may have to do with which stun animation they are in (as in weather the up or down jitter), this might be the case, but I don't have a person to test with me. They must be attempting to DI, this I know.
At the very least, get your extra 2% in your downsmash combo, you can still land to follow up.
and btw, 2% can matter, Co18 lost by 2 percent at WHOBO, and we can always use an extra step or two closer to our kill range.

 

[Nefarious B]

It does mess up the timing on the followup though. I definitely have a harder time with it anyways.

 

[CRASHiC]

At the earliest percents, it can interfere with some set ups that require more time such as the side b. Forward Air still seems to work though.

 

[solecalibur]

Heh what I get for telling my friend about this
he makes a thread about it
I'll contribute once I get a Wii for my room I already got the TV

 

[Nefarious B]

At the earliest percents, it can interfere with some set ups that require more time such as the side b. Forward Air still seems to work though.

If you get a dsmashx2 at 0 %, I don't think fair is guaranteed at all, even without a jab. That's why i've been doing DA to utilt instead. It does 1% more, puts them in a better position, and is easier to use.

 

[CRASHiC]

Oh no, not at 0% xD That's WAY to low. I meant at the positions I was talking about where you may hope to see the opponent fall down to the ground.
and the fair was just off the top of my head. I don't think I ever Fair them out of Zap.

 

[Tien2500]

If you get a dsmashx2 at 0 %, I don't think fair is guaranteed at all, even without a jab. That's why i've been doing DA to utilt instead. It does 1% more, puts them in a better position, and is easier to use.

Fair out of Dsmash at 0% only really works on huge characters. Bowser, Dorf, etc.

 

[noradseven]

Jesus guys this is the supa pro d-smash combo *serious post

d-smash, jabx2,shorthop fastfall n-air(center), shorthop u-air,fastfall, u-air, full jump u-air,j. (b-air/u-air/f-air/n-air).

This while is really hard to make a true combo is solid until after the first u-air and if you drop it, it leads right into a u-tilt that they really can't do **** about, and if you drop it elsewhere it puts them in a solid position. It also descales p. well due to the double jab near the start.

 

[Nefarious B]

There's no way that nair3 is legit.

 

[noradseven]

There's no way that nair3 is legit.

What is so hard about it, n-air 3 isn't hard against an oppenent that is stunned, plus don't forget I have been doing it since before everyone found out about the differences I just felt it was easier to connect.

 

[Nefarious B]

What is so hard about it, n-air 3 isn't hard against an oppenent that is stunned, plus don't forget I have been doing it since before everyone found out about the differences I just felt it was easier to connect.

Well is the nair going off as you land or as you rise? I can't see you have enough time to do landing nair 3 after 2 jabs is all, i barely get it after 1 dsmash

 

[noradseven]

Well is the nair going off as you land or as you rise? I can't see you have enough time to do landing nair 3 after 2 jabs is all, i barely get it after 1 dsmash

Heh you do it falling down right after they start popping up, but yeah I slack alot and just don't do the 2 jabs, lol but you can do it.