Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Grab is really good against Olimar... it's the same speed as his, probably slightly shorter range, so you can force him to stay on his toes much more than with side b or something.
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Possibly Useful OOS Option? Improving Our Ground Game
- Thread starter Nefarious B
- Start date
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Olimars is 11 frames, and don't mention the fact that we have alotta ending lag.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
There is no way our grab is longer than his pivot grab. his pivot grab outranges everything of DDDs except our ftilt.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Have you SEEN Snake's pivot grab range? It's unreal... Me and my friends already agreed that it's more broken than DDD's grab range.
Good lord, that broken-*** grab range... It's like he has psychic powers.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Well he stated that the grab totally outranged everything dedede has except ftilt, so he was comparing grab to dedede as a character.
which is why I said 'how can you compare grabs to DDD'
which is why I said 'how can you compare grabs to DDD'
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Sorry, misread Bs post.
And I compare to put its huge range into perspective.
Grabbing Oli is near impossible. DDDs are lucky as hell if we ever get to grab an oli, I'd hardly ever imagine a ZSS grabbing an oli.
CEASHiC said that DDD's grab cannot outrange Olimar's pivot grab.
CRASHiC said that Olimar's pivot grab has more range than anything DDD can do, save sideB and ftilt.
In other words, he was stating that the comparison of Olimar's pivot grab to DDD's grab/pivot grab (with a little miscellaneous info, like how Olimar's grab is so long it outranges whatever DDD can do) is not accurate... Then I replied to a part of your post with this:
... Which I admit sounded like you were arguing that DDD's grab cannot be argued against, but still, it was worded poorly...
I pointed out: DDD's grab range, not DDD the character. It's right there, bolded. Then you commented with:
How are you following me? I've been talking about grab ranges, and you keep talking about characters as a whole instead of just the grab ranges. D:
Anyways, enough off-topic discussion. I've dragged this topic farther with a single comment than I actually intended to. And I meant no offense at all.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Kew, I was mearly talking range, and gave an example of a charecter with a large overall range, and showed how big Olimar's grab range was using his range in comparison. Not just grab range, but range all together.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Pfft, I still think it was worded poorly.
enough off-topicness though
enough off-topicness though
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
So... can anybody here record replays? I have data on amazing stupid gimps of destiny that ZSS can do, but no way to record it. 
solecalibur
Smash Master
Send the replays over to me just message me and I'll get to it this weekendSo... can anybody here record replays? I have data on amazing stupid gimps of destiny that ZSS can do, but no way to record it.
also
(he is talking how olimar has 4+ more frames when it comes to plucking pikmin)
If OS is making me use custom stages for neutrals I might as well post this information about olimar
The most "useful" information is that castle siege's 3rd phase
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I think we should look into boost walking more guys. It allows us to approach on the ground at close to run speed while maintaining the ability to do anything out of it. One use I thought of would be whenever you would do a dash grab, do boostwalked grab instead to avoid the ******** dead zone glitch thing that our dash grab has.
Who else can think of uses for this?
Who else can think of uses for this?
noradseven
Smash Lord
Hint its not I already investigated it, its a nice way to move around but the most important thing is being able to craq walk on landing other than that they don't really matter that much.
But my god everyone and the whole super anti d-smash/over B/paralyzer, I was saying that **** like 3 some months ago and a bunch of you were like NOOO ITS STILL GOOD, and hell now I think that d-smash actually has some purpose's and and over B is good for hitting after a dodge bait/or the oppenent doing dumb ****.
Hell by December you guys will be talking about how u-air dodge traps will revolutionize ZSS's game...you can quote me on this ****.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
rofl wrong thread for the triforce of fail discussion but yeah, those moves have always been situational.
dsmash is really good in some matches I've found and absolutely terrible in others. Warp showed me how sexy it is against DK, because when he's trying to land while facing you his only good option is to airdodge into the ground and then usually utilt. Just charge the dsmash and punish the dodge.
side b and paralyzer are both really good for helping with juggle traps and forcing airdodges. I've been thinking about how charged paralyzer might be really good against opponents who like to shield a lot and walk approach, or just camp in shield and try and grab us, because it's so easy to chase. grounded b is great for microspacing, makes it extremely difficult for them to get in the deadzone. retreating aerial side b is good just because it gives them **** to think about if it's one of the few matchups where we are forcing the approach. it's also good offstage as well all know.
dsmash is really good in some matches I've found and absolutely terrible in others. Warp showed me how sexy it is against DK, because when he's trying to land while facing you his only good option is to airdodge into the ground and then usually utilt. Just charge the dsmash and punish the dodge.
side b and paralyzer are both really good for helping with juggle traps and forcing airdodges. I've been thinking about how charged paralyzer might be really good against opponents who like to shield a lot and walk approach, or just camp in shield and try and grab us, because it's so easy to chase. grounded b is great for microspacing, makes it extremely difficult for them to get in the deadzone. retreating aerial side b is good just because it gives them **** to think about if it's one of the few matchups where we are forcing the approach. it's also good offstage as well all know.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Retreating aireal side Bs problem is you will eventually run out of stage it really depends if its a match where you don't mind being on the edge its not bad if your fighting MK or someone who can lol gimp us on the edge DON'T DO THIS.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Updated OP with a video of a possible option that we might be able to make use of. I'm not really sure how practical this could be but here are some things I can think of:
footstool OOS>dair
footstool OOS>zdrop piece>combo
nB>footstool>dair
footstool OOS>dair
footstool OOS>zdrop piece>combo
nB>footstool>dair
noradseven
Smash Lord
Serious post I use this one its p. gay.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Usmash is pretty much just for catching airdodges. UpB is nice if they use FH aerials.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I think that ZSS' best OOS options are pretty much always going to be utilt and uair. The footstool dair thing is nice but it doesn't solve the problem with multihit attacks (for instance Peach being above you and dairing while you shield).
Salem
Smash Champion
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Only if you b-stick. lol
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Wait why bstick? Cause if it's useful I'll learn to bstick it manually, I've already done that with side b
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
If you try to down-b out of shield it crouches first. If you b-stick it can work instantly, I believe.
Granted down-b out of shield isn't perfect but it can get you out of a few things, plus you can flipstool the opponent sometimes.
Granted down-b out of shield isn't perfect but it can get you out of a few things, plus you can flipstool the opponent sometimes.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
you can jump cancel downB iirc.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
OOooo techy, I like it.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Yo dawg I herd you had a bad shield so we put a marth-like escape move in your shield so now you can be invincible while you escape attacks
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
We can get a slide out of our jump cancel Up B enough to hit an opponent. There's another option.
EDIT- Not sayin its great, its not, not saying its new or unknown. But the more options, the less predictable, the better. Like, if they predict the down b, but are out of range of the uptilt (tiny tiny hit box), then you could do this to punish what they thought was a safe option.
EDIT- Not sayin its great, its not, not saying its new or unknown. But the more options, the less predictable, the better. Like, if they predict the down b, but are out of range of the uptilt (tiny tiny hit box), then you could do this to punish what they thought was a safe option.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I actually think utilt has a great hitbox, it has a phantom hitbox infront of it, behind it, and slight disjoints on the top.
Also, I don't think any of us use down b well enough to escape stuff, I almost never use it except for recovery myself and that def. needs to change.
Also, I don't think any of us use down b well enough to escape stuff, I almost never use it except for recovery myself and that def. needs to change.
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
I sometimes use down B in place of an airdodge. It moves you away from your opponent, has inv. frames start up 3 frames earlier, and she can attack out of it faster.
Also, I use UTilt WAY more than I should. It's like the only ooS option I use, and I use it to punish whenever there isn't enough lag to use a DSmash.
Also, I use UTilt WAY more than I should. It's like the only ooS option I use, and I use it to punish whenever there isn't enough lag to use a DSmash.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Yeah all the tilts are good OOS options, except dtilt, which I wish was
noradseven
Smash Lord
uhh why is d-tilt bad out of shield, its faster and safer than f-tilt????, sure its not jab /u-tilt but still.Yeah all the tilts are good OOS options, except dtilt, which I wish was
Salem
Smash Champion
It's slow is all, it's better to use F-tilt cause it's faster and has a less chance getting PSed.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Dtilt is one frame faster than ftilt, and also has less cooldown. Juuuust saying
Salem
Smash Champion
>_>
Shush. lol
It's still faster to do cause you sometimes unoticably crouch adding worthless crouch frames. >:O
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
ftilt has more shield pushback = tru story
Buffered dtilt, plox.