Possibly Useful OOS Option? Improving Our Ground Game

[Salem]

Buffered dtilt, plox.

Same can be done with F-tilt but with a better result. >_>

Unless you're fighting Snake, then...

D-Tilt > F-Tilt

 

[ph00tbag]

If you're fighting Snake, anything you do for shield pressure has about as good a chance of working as praying he doesn't ftilt you for your trouble.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

@norad, a few reasons I don't dtilt OOS:

1. Causes ZSS to crouch or sportdodge if you tilt it even slightly too much, and you get punished. Yeah I know this is a personal problem and
2. Anyone who attacks your frontside while you're shielding is kinda dumb, for instance when I play Dark.Pch or when I played Snakeee at Viridian they almost always hit my shield from behind, or above. You can pivot it if they're on the ground for some reason but it adds 2 frames... Making it 7 or 8 frames (can't remember) and it's no longer as reliable. You're better off just utilting.

People really over-complicate the OOS issue, so allow me to explain it in the simplest terms: ZSS has very limited OOS options. Any opponent that knows the match-up is going to exploit it. That means that no one is going to stand in front of you when you shield if they expect you to shield, they use a mid-range attack from your backside or a strong/fast dair from the top, like Peach's dair or MK's dair.

ZSS' best option out of shield is a well-timed spot dodge, a utilt, a jab in either direction if your opponent is dumb, or uair. It's possible that footstool->dair is good but I have reservations about it because it seems like it would only punish people who don't know how to pressure shields correctly.

If you want to do well vs shield pressure (personally I really suck at fighting against it and get punished a lot) learn to drop through platforms out of a shield, and shield as little as possible.

 

[Corrupted]

There must be a way to speed up the last hit of jab. Maybe by timing the hits? Or does the infinite jab have different properties to the normal version?

 

[CRASHiC]

Do we have any jab mixups?

 

[Corrupted]

Jab canceling gives ZZS a -1 frame advantage vs most characters, meaning they can all be shielded or worse

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Jab canceling gives ZZS a -1 frame advantage vs most characters, meaning they can all be shielded or worse

LOL, only -1? Falco's jab cancel is -13 (!), and is considered one of the best.

 

[CRASHiC]

Has anyone ever tested to see if we have Luigi syndrome, meaning we can only mix up after out first jab?

 

[ph00tbag]

LOL, only -1? Falco's jab cancel is -13 (!), and is considered one of the best.

Personally, I'm having trouble believing this. Jab has 17 frames of cooldown. I don't know a lot of moves with that much hitstun, to be honest.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Jab and run away

Oh and while this should be obvious to anyone who's thought about it, Peach can SDI/DI down during our jab combo and jab us out of the third hit herself.

Lame.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

Jab and run away

Oh and while this should be obvious to anyone who's thought about it, Peach can SDI/DI down during our jab combo and jab us out of the third hit herself.

Lame.

I agree, I jab and get out, hit and run. Mostly do to the muscle memory of characters with better Jab combos, its almost all can can do to stop from doing the full combo. Also spotdodge and restart the jab or get out. What about jab and thentry to bait your own PS, unless you get grabbed. Now of this would be an issue if her grab was better. I say best option is to jab and then kick rocks, pray you get space.

Oh and Hi I'm new to these boards, but I'm entertaining the thought of maining ZSS.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah SFP, together with all characters with a 2 frame (and possibly 3) jab

 

[mountain_tiger]

@SFP Surely if someone's pressuring our shield from behind we can ooS Bair? It's fairly fast and powerful, so why not? Plus UTilt hits both sides.

Her ooS options ARE limited, but they're not terrible. Just be thankful we aren't Yoshi.

 

[Nefarious B]

MT, it's true but our bair can only hit the mid to tall characters if they're standing, so OOS bair is limited in that way to punishing crossovers and taller characters.

If our SH was normal, we would have amazing OOS game with uairs fairs and nairs covering all our front and above angles, and bair covering our backside. Sadly, we don't.

 

[noradseven]

MT, it's true but our bair can only hit the mid to tall characters if they're standing, so OOS bair is limited in that way to punishing crossovers and taller characters.

If our SH was normal, we would have amazing OOS game with uairs fairs and nairs covering all our front and above angles, and bair covering our backside. Sadly, we don't.

You mean OOS bair, regular b-air can hit everything except crouching squirtle/ZSS/snake/sheik, I think it hits crouching lucario im not sure I would have to test it out, I normally don't see lucarios crouch to dodge things though.

Im part of the jab, crouch pivot roll away crew for OOS option seriously, if only our backroll didn't suck so much *** .

Also on the note of spot dodging learn how to get good at it, we kinda need it and we got a fairly good one, and by get good at it I mean only spot dodge punish the entire match multiple times don't shield don't roll just spot dodge.

Oh and Hi I'm new to these boards, but I'm entertaining the thought of maining ZSS.

Welcome and good luck :D...I hope your playing for fun and not to win, because she truely is a fun character even at high level play.