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Possibly Useful OOS Option? Improving Our Ground Game

Nefarious B

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Continue the lock though, you'd want some DA's or maybe more ftilts for extra damage
The thing is, at those percents you can really only get in one ftilt, and it knocks them too far away to do anything other than dsmash them on their getup. DA does not lock at those percents.

And what I realized is as they are in the stun animation from nB, you can dsmash them instead of ftilt, and then keep dsmashing to punish the getup, giving you 3 instead of the usual two, and it will do more damage than ftilt+dsmash x2 would.

So basically if you wanted to push them closer to the edge for a kill, ftilt is what you want, if you want more damage, dsmash x3 and no ftilt.
 

fkacyan

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I'd always thought Nair could be used that way, but only out of dsmash and never into a dsmash the way you did it. Question, though: Can't they DI and/or tech on landing?
 

★Malik★™

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okay. i almost pulled the move off in a match. everything works, except, i just didn't hit the buttons. sometimes my finger slips, but i'm sure it works at 25%. great discovery.
 

CRASHiC

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How about some charecter specific things.
Like, what can ZSS do with Diddys naners? I'd imagine it be pretty deadly.
 

solecalibur

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How about some charecter specific things.
Like, what can ZSS do with Diddys naners? I'd imagine it be pretty deadly.
Toss banana (Glidetoss=better) d-smash d-smash backair Im sure you can get creative but thats what I normaly do
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
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How about some charecter specific things.
Like, what can ZSS do with Diddys naners? I'd imagine it be pretty deadly.
I recently started experimenting with bananas and I think I found a zero death.

I suck at testing though but all zero suits just discard my ideas without testing.
 

Charby

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Well glide toss (banana) to dsmash on didy work realy well true combo
 

Nefarious B

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Is that the JCT to nB you were talking about xonar? Or something else? I think it has potential.

Also, single nanner lock shouldn't work with us because our SH is too high to get the rhythm right. Never tested though.

Also, check out my post in matchup discussion (most recent), that is the best nanner combo that I can confirm us having so far. I can't help but feel that we have to have more though. The nature of our stuns, and Diddy's nanners, probably the two best combo tools in the game, make me feel that there has to be an infinite/zero to death with them.

BTW I found this thread very helpful for brainstorming what we can do: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7893552
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
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Is that the JCT to nB you were talking about xonar? Or something else? I think it has potential.
Yup it's that. I must still test it though.
I was also thinking about JC dthrow, nB, glide downward, reverse nB, JC downthrow etc. gotta work on it though
Also, single nanner lock shouldn't work with us because our SH is too high to get the rhythm right. Never tested though.
Yeah, I agree with that, SH is too high and we dont fall fast enough.
Also, check out my post in matchup discussion (most recent), that is the best nanner combo that I can confirm us having so far. I can't help but feel that we have to have more though. The nature of our stuns, and Diddy's nanners, probably the two best combo tools in the game, make me feel that there has to be an infinite/zero to death with them.
I think zero has potential for an infinite, I just have to get around to testing some day >_>
BTW I found this thread very helpful for brainstorming what we can do: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7893552
I'll take a look at the thread.
 
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Bair instead of fair, stronger hit. Also you can direct it toward the side of the screen he's closest too but it probably still won't outright kill him.

Great **** though, lol

Also you really should have shown how JCT sets up for it, because it's hard to visualize unless you're like me and spent forever trying to make this thing work. :p
 
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Also this works at any point after 28%, so if you wanted, you could start it at say 70% (if I'm correct?) and then it would be an X-death.
 

NickRiddle

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Just curious... if the d-smash is decayed, do people pop out of stun at higher %s? (If I d-smash once, and get the guy to 28% while my d-smash is decayed, will the nanner pop Diddy out?)

(No Wii to test this on currently. >_<)
 
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Just curious... if the d-smash is decayed, do people pop out of stun at higher %s? (If I d-smash once, and get the guy to 28% while my d-smash is decayed, will the nanner pop Diddy out?)

(No Wii to test this on currently. >_<)
No... btw, try this =P:

Decay dsmash all the way down. Then dsmash a person at like 100% and watch how far they pop out (read: barely at all).

For a while I thought we could 0-death everyone in the cast using this because I thought they popped up sooo low that you could dsmash again before they can move. Actually for some characters you can (Donkey Kong, Dedede, Bowser, Charizard) once or twice but when is your dsmash that decayed? Also the rest of the characters can just jump out.
 

Nefarious B

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Also this works at any point after 28%, so if you wanted, you could start it at say 70% (if I'm correct?) and then it would be an X-death.
Yes, there isn't anything that can be DId in this combo except for the finish, so once you get to the point where dsmash doesn't break from the nanner, you can (theoretically) do it, even at 999%.

Just curious... if the d-smash is decayed, do people pop out of stun at higher %s? (If I d-smash once, and get the guy to 28% while my d-smash is decayed, will the nanner pop Diddy out?)
I can't imagine it would, but no I haven't checked if decay effects it. I'll check though.

Also SFP use hittable parts of the stage to decay your dsmash for that. I brought this up ages ago that we could do it on brinstar after getting a kill but unfortunately brinstar isn't a very dsmash-chain-happy stage. If you ever have Luigi's legal, itd be good there.

We need to work on setups for that combo. Right now it will be very difficult to land it, diminishing it's effectiveness. If we find a setup, this matchup could easily be turned around. Be creative!
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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Found a nana lock on diddy kong
Start in his face, banana throw, nb, JCTforward, nb, repeat. at the edge downsmash spike for flashiness points
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
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Our fsmash jablocks.


Just telling to improve our ground game.

Also to above post, try throwing your nana closer to the opponent
 
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If nothing else, ZSS is the second most flashy character in the game (behind Link).

Flashiness tier list:

Link
ZSS
Toon Link
Snake?

Time to post a "Flashiest Characters?" thread in Tactical Discussion
 

CRASHiC

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I apologize if this has been found before, but I never heard it talked about or seen it done during a match.

Its a downsmash chain that starts on 58 on Falco upon the hit of the first downsmash, and stops around 115 (didn't test to see how far it went.
You downsmash, jab, downsmash, then the opponent hits the ground similar to the footstool, then you ftilt them, then wait for the get up. You have to be careful on your spacing, because on the tip of the jab you might hit the opponent up slightly, but its fine because you can still downsmash again and follow up with an aerial for more damage. After 115 or around there, I can no longer get the Falco to fall, and he would always be carried up into the air. Another problem may be that they can sdi the jab.
At the very least, a tiny bit of extra damage in our down smash combo.
Also, did not test on anyone but Falco because I had DDD things to test.

I hope this hasn't been found, because I've never really contributed anything to this board and more lurk.
If this has been brought up before, then I must have missed it, and I apologize.
 

Tien2500

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I apologize if this has been found before, but I never heard it talked about or seen it done during a match.

Its a downsmash chain that starts on 58 on Falco upon the hit of the first downsmash, and stops around 115 (didn't test to see how far it went.
You downsmash, jab, downsmash, then the opponent hits the ground similar to the footstool, then you ftilt them, then wait for the get up. You have to be careful on your spacing, because on the tip of the jab you might hit the opponent up slightly, but its fine because you can still downsmash again and follow up with an aerial for more damage. After 115 or around there, I can no longer get the Falco to fall, and he would always be carried up into the air. Another problem may be that they can sdi the jab.
At the very least, a tiny bit of extra damage in our down smash combo.
Also, did not test on anyone but Falco because I had DDD things to test.

I hope this hasn't been found, because I've never really contributed anything to this board and more lurk.
If this has been brought up before, then I must have missed it, and I apologize.

I'm a bit confused on a few things. First off whats the purpose of the jab? Is it just for damage?

Also when you (dsmash, jab, dsmash) is this all part of one paralyzer combo or is the second dsmash after he gets our of the first?

Oh and can't the ftilt be teched?
 

CRASHiC

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The jab will move them slightly down if done right, allowing them to land on the ground when the stun animation is over.
The second downsmash is part of the paralyzer combo.
I do not believe the ftilt can be teched. It is jab locking, right?
 

Tien2500

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The jab will move them slightly down if done right, allowing them to land on the ground when the stun animation is over.
The second downsmash is part of the paralyzer combo.
I do not believe the ftilt can be teched. It is jab locking, right?
Well if they are hit to the floor and miss the tech then no they would not be able to tech the ftilt after that. But as far as I know the Dsmash combo will not cause them to fall into a jablockable position... Does the jab somehow change that?

Edit: Ok if they don't tech the Dsmash at high enough percents you can ftilt lock them. This seems to work with or without the jab. But it still seems techable to me.

Edit 2: Ok I see what you're getting at. The jab seems to effect the way falco gets out of the Dsmash. I haven't been able to do what you've said but it seems there is potential for something.

Edit 3: I think I go what you are going for but it seems completely techable.

Edit 4: The banana combo on Diddy is awesome.
 

CRASHiC

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Okay, at 58% (the percent it starts on Falco) you can jab him, one of two things will happen after that first jab, he will move down, or he will move up, while still in the stun animation. The jab does not kick him out of the stun animation. (first jab only) then downsmash again, just for extra damage. Then he falls down, similar to foostooling them while they are in the stun animation. From here, you can jab lock them, as they will be right next to you. I believe it was the ftilt that is our jab lock? Oh well. Once they do that, down smash again, maybe. How many ftilts are needed to force the get up animation?

Tien, I really, really doubt they can tech this, they are litterally falling from nowhere. You can't tech a footstool from low either. They are in the ground, and fall on the ground. There is no room for teching I believe.

EDIT- Forgot to say that its if he moves down this will work.
 

Nefarious B

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Hmmmm I've never seen anything like you're talking about. I know you know what you're talking about though, so I'll definitely check it out after I eat some dinner.

If he falls into the "prone" position, which is when they bounce on the ground, we can either DA, ftilt, or neutral b to lock them into the standing up animation. DA is only at low percents, too low for what you're talking about. Ftilt may work once, but it knocks them too far away for another ftilt. The best option if you have enough time would be to neutral b (since it has no kb) then you can get in 3 dsmashes and finish with an aerial.

And if they're in the prone state and get hit by a move with jab lock properties, they are forced to stand up. You can either continue the lock with a locking move, or hit them with something as they stand up.
 

CRASHiC

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Isn't there a time frame after the stun animaion when you can not move?
Because they hit the ground right as the stun animation is over.

Yeah, Nefarious got what I was talking about.
 

Nefarious B

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There's a period called the dsmash "throw" where you get knocked out of the animation and can't do anything but can DI. What you need to do is test if they can jump out, because our typical dsmash combo looks legit but can be jumped out of for most characters.
 
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I have seen what crashic is talking about before. If you jab someone RIGHT as the dsmash window ends (or maybe not, I'm just kind of hand-waving based on experience here) they will just kind of plop out of it, but I was pretty sure they can jump out of that.

I'm not positive, I just can't imagine anything that ridiculously significant not being found by now. I mean, we would have a huge 50%+ combo on any heavy or fastfaller. Snake, Dedede, Falco, Wario?, etc.
 

Tien2500

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Wait is there a footstool in this that I missed somewhere? After Falco gets out of the Dsmash he can either airdodge or jump. He can also tech the landing. Unless I'm missing something this shouldn't work. But I could be doing it wrong.
 

CRASHiC

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No no no Supermodel.
Jab during the dsmash window to move them down, keeping them in the stun animation.

No Tien, there is no footstool.
 
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