Chaotic Yoshi
Smash Lord
Congrats on the sticky. You absolutely deserve it.
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Pokemon Trainer: an In-Depth Analysis & Guide
- Thread starter Card
- Start date
If we need confirmation about character weights, Ness's f-smash bat should be used for the weight test. I'm sure that it'll show Squirtle as the lightest.
Card, when you ran those tests were the trajectories all the same? Charizard dying before Ivysaur with water moves and Ivysaur before Squirtle with Fire definitely suggests something between element and knockback, but since the three pokemon have different weights, it may be a trajectory thing for different attacks?
The tests look to me like only Water and Fire moves have an effect...maybe Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard are only affected by those types - namely, water, grass, and fire moves. Attacks like Ness's back throw are probably not considered Psychic type. If this whole elemental typechart thing does extend beyond Pokemon Trainer, Charizard's D-smash should send Pikachu further than another char with similar weight? Try some of Ivysaur's vine moves...measuring knockback of side-b and up-b maybe. Squirtle should be sent much further because of weight and super-effectiveness, but maybe we'll find a counterexample.
That's one thing to test... I guess the next thing to do would be to just find more fire/water moves and see if this still holds. Throwing a Fire Flower would be interesting.
Card, when you ran those tests were the trajectories all the same? Charizard dying before Ivysaur with water moves and Ivysaur before Squirtle with Fire definitely suggests something between element and knockback, but since the three pokemon have different weights, it may be a trajectory thing for different attacks?
The tests look to me like only Water and Fire moves have an effect...maybe Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard are only affected by those types - namely, water, grass, and fire moves. Attacks like Ness's back throw are probably not considered Psychic type. If this whole elemental typechart thing does extend beyond Pokemon Trainer, Charizard's D-smash should send Pikachu further than another char with similar weight? Try some of Ivysaur's vine moves...measuring knockback of side-b and up-b maybe. Squirtle should be sent much further because of weight and super-effectiveness, but maybe we'll find a counterexample.
That's one thing to test... I guess the next thing to do would be to just find more fire/water moves and see if this still holds. Throwing a Fire Flower would be interesting.
Card
Smash Lord
Alright! Sticky status
I give my Thanks to the anonymous moderator who stickied the thread without saying anything.
I know you are out there somewhere.
Let's continue to make this an even better guide.
I give my Thanks to the anonymous moderator who stickied the thread without saying anything.
I know you are out there somewhere.Let's continue to make this an even better guide.
Card
Smash Lord
Oh jeez... my first ever Brawl match (my first match was with PT) was just horrible. PT isn't exactly a character you can just JUMP right into. Especially considering it is three characters in one...
I hate to say it, but if you can get eliminated after 1-round of playing, I would say choose someone OTHER than P. Trainer for your first ever Brawl match.
On the other hand, if you are dead-set on playing P. Trainer.... Start with Squirtle (Click the Squirtle Portrait on the Character Select Screen). He's the easiest to play with from the get go, just focus on using a whole bunch of aerials (in all directions) from short-hops, and grabbing alot. When you get to Ivysaur spam a lot of razor leaves (Side+B) and use your range accordingly. For Charizard focus alot on doing tilts along with aerials, since they do tons of damage and range, and chances are you'll land alot of rock smashes on new opponents.
Good luck
Thanks I've been watching a lot of PT videos and focusing on his fighting style and different strategies. The only reason I've asked around is because I know some people that downloaded Brawl and played it on their modded Wiis and I wanted to know if I had a chance. But Thanks alot all the info is appreciated and I was wondering if you had any videos of your self playing.
JiangWei23
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 220
Well that wouldn't hold true if we're assuming Sakurai did his homework, since Rock Smash is a Fighting move, not a Ground type.
And all this talk of typing both excites and worries me.
On the one hand, I'm blown away by how much detail was put into this game with the typing affecting knockback.
On the other hand...I don't want to have to worry about some attacks being "Super effective" against my fighter. I mean sure, it doesn't do extra damage, just knockback, but that's one more thing I have to worry about on top of playing, Pokemon Change's timer, etc.
We'll see, I guess. This doesn't shake my conviction to main PT.
Takumaru
Smash Lord
All I have to say is PT is tons of fun to play. He'll feel weird at first (the entire game is) but he's worth it.
Incredible thread, and I completely agree...if you're going to use PT, use all 3 characters.
What I would like to see is your impressions on which Pokemon matches up better against which character. For example...it seems to me that Squirtle does really well against Marth and other characters with mediocre recovery. Simply knock them away from the platform, and his ridiculous air-game owns them. Charizard seems to dominate against heavier characters(DDD being the exception) such as Wario. Of course, this is simply me watching videos...I haven't been fortunate enough to play the game yet, nor am I knowledgeable enough to truly know what I'm talking about anyways. So I think it would be awesome if you could include your opinions on which Pokemon is best to use against Character X.
What I would like to see is your impressions on which Pokemon matches up better against which character. For example...it seems to me that Squirtle does really well against Marth and other characters with mediocre recovery. Simply knock them away from the platform, and his ridiculous air-game owns them. Charizard seems to dominate against heavier characters(DDD being the exception) such as Wario. Of course, this is simply me watching videos...I haven't been fortunate enough to play the game yet, nor am I knowledgeable enough to truly know what I'm talking about anyways. So I think it would be awesome if you could include your opinions on which Pokemon is best to use against Character X.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
I was talking about his d-smash, where he stomps the ground and earth around him comes up. It was the only ground move I could think of =\ His Rock Smash if Forward-B, not D-smash.
I still believe that types only matter in so far as the Grass/Fire/Water triangle. I find it hard to believe that the developers would actually assign types to all the moves just so Pokemon knockback could be adjusted accordingly. It seems more likely that they only defined Fire-element, Water-element (and maybe Grass-element) moves and adjusted knockback on those. The evidence points to this...the other types seem to follow weight more than type.
Although, I've been thinking it may be a little unfair for Ivysaur for example to be the only one weak to Fire based moves in the whole game. I can't see the developers considering PT a character that would need to be nerfed in any way, so what if instead Pokemon resisted certain elements? For Fire based moves, it wouldn't be that Ivysaur is sent further, but that Squirtle (and maybe Charizard) are not sent as far.
No one else has that problem, but no one else has three characters in their hand with strengths enough to counter just about anyone. The type weakness balances him out, in my opinion. Putting out certain pokemon to avoid weaknesses and play to strengths is a huge part of the games. Why shouldn't it be an important aspect if PT's fighting style?
What I'm still wanting to know is if Electrical type moves have an effect. I strongly suspect they've just assigned a single type to each in Brawl. I bet they count Charizard not as a Fire/Flying, but just plain Fire. Therefore, only Squirtle would be adversely affected by Thunder.
Takumaru
Smash Lord
Mind if I ask, card, how many times did you hit each character with each attack and did you use training mode?
Smashbros_7
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2007
- Messages
- 724
Crazy good guide but in the Ivysaur quick glance section you said
Many of her attacks make full use of his vines and Leaves
(just thought you needed to know that)
Many of her attacks make full use of his vines and Leaves
(just thought you needed to know that)
Card
Smash Lord
The knock back different really isn't THAT extreme, and it is only affected by a handful of attacks used against the P. Trainer. The chances of Mario hitting a sweet-spotted F-Smash on Ivysaur aren't that great throughout the course of a single match.
Don't forget... Damage DOES NOT increase due to typing, only Knockback. So if anything... this will allow for you to possibly escape combos or set-ups?
Oh yes. Don't worry about that. I will DEFINITELY be adding a "Character Match-Up" Section to this guide. The problem is that since the game has just released I have not really gotten a feel of the entire roster as opponents. I would think that within a year or two it would be added to the guide and would be effective.
and actually from my experience Squirtle does quite poorly against Marth. It is pretty much similar to how a Jigglypuff would do against a Marth in Smash Melee. Tippers really stop a lot of your approaching game, his aerials BEAT Squirtles aerials almost every time due to the disjointed hit-boxes, plus he can K.O Squirtle quite quickly due to his light-weight. Now Ivysaur on the other hand....
Ivysaur totally dominates Marth since she can out-range him in almost every attack.I agree on both your paragraphs.
Squirtle may be the only one who is effected by Electric attacks, but I haven't been able to tell fully. After all, you wouldn't send in a Squirtle against a Pikachu! That is just suicide!
I tried it a handful of times. I used Training mode, Diminishing Returns are not present, and it allows me to set the percentages quickly and easily.
Thanks for spotting, I'll change it right away >_<
Ken34
Smash Journeyman
if i ever get to record my matches again, you'll see charizard in action, hes my fav, so i use him the most.
a little info on him:
he has good range, takes forever to kill, his multiple jumps sometimes feel useless cause he doesnt gain too much air with each jump since he is so heavy. his grab range is so good, its so easy to shield grab almost any move. short hop fairs and short hop rock smashes are a very good way to approach, cause they cover a good amount of distance and protect you from getting shield grab if spacing correctly.
WuTangDude
Smash Ace
Great guide, the amount of work you put into it is absolutely astounding. Nice.
ThunderHero
Smash Apprentice
wow thanks so much for making this! This is very helpful and this has totally changed my view on Zard as more than just the powerhouse 
HamSTAB0i
Smash Rookie
thanks alot for this analysis
helped me a whole lot with my game =D
just started brawling last night woot!
helped me a whole lot with my game =D
just started brawling last night woot!
festizzio
Smash Champion
Kilo told me the other day that it's possible to do a short hop double bair with Ivysaur of sorts, like if you were to time it correctly, you can short hop a bair and double jump into another bair, I don't have Brawl myself so I can't test this out. I trust him, he's really good with PT, but I just want to see if anyone else has been able to perform this.
Card
Smash Lord
I'm 100% sure that you can, because I perform that offense often.
I often do Dashing Reverse-Short-Hop B-Air into a double jump B-Air then once I land follow up with a F-Tilt (Quite the mouthful!) It racks up around 18-23% if every hit connects (they often do) and on top of that it cannot be punished since it's got so much range. The last B-Air can also be timed perfectly so that the hit-stun from the B-Air connects with the F-Tilt.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
What are their getting up off the ground, getting up off the ledge and getting up off the ledge at over 100% attacks?!?!
Elliot Gale
Smash Ace
While we're on that subject, non-attacking ledge properties would be good too. Ledge rolls, etc.
Samus_2021
Smash Journeyman
Even though it was my intention to try out every single new character in Brawl, this guide answered all my questions about P.Trainer. ESPECIALLY the stamina stats. I might not have picked up on that on my own if I had used them extensively.
That really cleared out the air on how they play. Thank you for such a detailed post!
That really cleared out the air on how they play. Thank you for such a detailed post!
Elliot Gale
Smash Ace
An idea that came to mind.
For Squirtle, as an edge guard. Fair -> Water Gun, then double jump and Waterfall to come back.
For Squirtle, as an edge guard. Fair -> Water Gun, then double jump and Waterfall to come back.
Card
Smash Lord
It's almost infinitely more effective to just Fair double-jump Fair then fall towards the stage and water-fall the edge.
This is the MAJOR issue with Water gun. It becomes obsolete because in practically every instance where you would use Water gun, using another move would be more effective instead.
But don't physical attacks always have the potential threat of allowing your foe to DI upwards, thus helping them recover? I'd be surprised if you could DI upwards out of the push of the Water Gun... on the other hand, it would still be horribly situational.
pass the syrup
Smash Journeyman
Thanks for the guide. It made me want to play PT now. He's now one of my new favorites.
- Prisma -
Smash Cadet
I'm definetly keeping my eyes out for PT now.
Looks promising as a character.
Looks promising as a character.
Emir Kirena
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2007
- Messages
- 20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQOEHk9mhbI
If you listen to Ivysaur, you'll see that he is a guy in the US version. Why would they change that? Or does he only SOUND like a girl in the JP version, but isn't?
If you listen to Ivysaur, you'll see that he is a guy in the US version. Why would they change that? Or does he only SOUND like a girl in the JP version, but isn't?
As much as it pains me to do this...........................
*takes a deep breath*
Pokemon Trainer is not Ash and thus does not possess Ash's inexplicably constipated voice. Squirtle and Ivysaur are cute and do not sound like ugly beasts. Thus, the English voice-acting is mistaken and never occurred.
... I'm honestly considering importing the Japanese version because of this.
*takes a deep breath*
Pokemon Trainer is not Ash and thus does not possess Ash's inexplicably constipated voice. Squirtle and Ivysaur are cute and do not sound like ugly beasts. Thus, the English voice-acting is mistaken and never occurred.
... I'm honestly considering importing the Japanese version because of this.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
You stupid weeaboo.As much as it pains me to do this...........................
*takes a deep breath*
Pokemon Trainer is not Ash and thus does not possess Ash's inexplicably constipated voice. Squirtle and Ivysaur are cute and do not sound like ugly beasts. Thus, the English voice-acting is mistaken and never occurred.
... I'm honestly considering importing the Japanese version because of this.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
You're still a weeaboo.