Pokemon Trainer: an In-Depth Analysis & Guide

[Deception]

Hey, Card, I have a better quality pic of PT's Final Smash Trophy.

Credit goes to Brawl Central.

 

[Knyaguy]

Hey, Card, I have a better quality pic of PT's Final Smash Trophy.

Credit goes to Brawl Central.

Yeah Brawl Central has a really good trophy guide.

 

[Helios42]

Sry, wierd double post, the later one has more info, if a mod sees this one, just delete it.

 

[Helios42]

Well, I like Ivysaurs voice, almost sounds like Venasaur. As to the trainers voice, at least it only occures during a swap. And, it could have been a lot worse, at least it isn'the anime's current ash, from what I've heard of it (granted it isn't much), but it is high pitched and almost flambouantly gay. I'd much rather have a over-exited "Go charzard" then the high "Go charzard." Overall, it turned out well, better then pit's at least.

Also, I think Ivysaurs voice shows that the gender can indeed go either way. I personaly am satisfied, and will not complain about something as unimportiant as how the trainer sounds.

ONLY 5 DAYS TIL BRAWL IS OUT IN THE U.S.!!!

 

[Fawriel]

The Pokemon themselves sounded a lot... cuter in Japanese, though. The sound of a character isn't really that unimportant... imagine playing a character who farts all the time!

But now that I think about it, those are the same voices as the ones they had in the anime, aren't they? If so, I should be safe... the German voices aren't too bad. So as long as the PAL release date isn't too far in the future...

 

[FS Fantom]

What are the properties of the curve of Razor Leaf?

I can't figure out how to control it...is it completely random?

 

[Card]

What are their getting up off the ground, getting up off the ledge and getting up off the ledge at over 100% attacks?!?!

While we're on that subject, non-attacking ledge properties would be good too. Ledge rolls, etc.

I'll see what I can do about the Get-up attacks.

I can't exactly read frame data so I can't tell you specifics on invincibility frames. But for Ledge Rolls and Non-Attacking Ledge recoveries, it's pretty basic and similar to every other character. I often use Non-Attacking Ledge recoveries, especially with Ivysaur. Ledge hopping with Ivysaur is VERY DANGEROUS. Losing double jump often results in an easy edge hog against Ivysaur.

What are the properties of the curve of Razor Leaf?

I can't figure out how to control it...is it completely random?

I believe the direction you hold the analog stick bears a slight impact on the curve of Razor Leaf. Again, if I don't write about it in my guide, it is because I am not entirely sure, and I cannot test with frame data.

As a rule of thumb,
If you want Razor Leaf to curve upwards, hold the analog stick upwards after tossing
If you want Razor Leaf to curve downwards, hold the analog stick downwards after tossing
If you want Razor Leaf to go further, Smash the analog stick simultaneously as pressing B (Think Samus Homing Missile vs. Super Missile)

Sometimes it'll curve how you'd like, other times it won't, or will barely curve. I really don't know how it works accurately, and I assume once the game is released stateside, some of you will do your own tests and find out.

 

[ama(m/t)]

Card, did you ever do the testing regarding elemental weaknesses?
On the guide, it stills says there is no effect, but the topic before it was lost in time was showing different results.

 

[squiser]

^ Yeah he did, but nothing too conclusive was discovered other than the fact that types do seem to have an effect on knockback.

Post #151 (top of page 11 on 15 posts per page) has the data he collected.

 

[Helios42]

The Pokemon themselves sounded a lot... cuter in Japanese, though. The sound of a character isn't really that unimportant... imagine playing a character who farts all the time!

But now that I think about it, those are the same voices as the ones they had in the anime, aren't they? If so, I should be safe... the German voices aren't too bad. So as long as the PAL release date isn't too far in the future...

As to the farting, *cough*WARIO*cough*. And, if you want cute, try pickachu or even jigglypuff. Squirtle sounds cool and a little intimidating, which I like, yet it still retains a certian amount of cute, which I also like. Also who said Ivysaur should sound 'cute.' I like how it sounds almost like Venasaur, yet not quite. Bulbasaur, maybe, would have sounded cute, but I really like that the programmers didn't try to reinforce the 'pokemon is cute, it's for little kids' idea. Instead, you get a really cool sounding pokemon, which is just awsome.

The trainer, most thankfully, is indeed NOT the anime's voice. Believe me, the anime's is a lot worse. Again, I say that the voice is trivial compared to how the character moves and plays, which is really outstanding.

 

[squiser]

The trainer's voice is decent, I agree, but I really wish they made Ivysaur sound more like the anime. It's gonna take me a long time to get used to Ivysaur's voice in the NA version. They kept Squirtle and Charizard's anime sounds, why not Ivysaur's?

 

[YSM]

What character would you suggest using in a Sudden Death situation(assuming you had time to switch, of course)? I'm going against better judgment and using PT despite in the Gamestop tourney, even though I've never used him before. Even though there are supposedly no Sudden Deaths, we all know that individual Gamestops often play by their own rules. And, for whatever character you would choose, what would you say is the safest, least laggy attack that would still KO?

 

[infernovia]

Well, Charizard's got a whole slew of attacks, Ivysaur is kinda limited in her options here (but then again, I don't know much about her). I think squirtle could definitely ko with forward air though.

 

[squiser]

I'd stay away from Charizard, especially if you'll be playing PT for the first time. He's big so he gets hit easily, and his attacks are on the slower side compared to the other two. Squirtle is a good option with his ability to dodge and fast aerials, and his f-air and b-air would easily KO. Ivysaur would be really good as well actually, because his/her grab range is so big that it's easy to get a shieldgrab off, especially on another new opponent.

 

[YSM]

I'd stay away from Charizard, especially if you'll be playing PT for the first time. He's big so he gets hit easily, and his attacks are on the slower side compared to the other two. Squirtle is a good option with his ability to dodge and fast aerials, and his f-air and b-air would easily KO. Ivysaur would be really good as well actually, because his/her grab range is so big that it's easy to get a shieldgrab off, especially on another new opponent.

Good point with Ivysaur...that might actually be a safer option than Squirtle's aerials due to the range.

 

[Fawriel]

Ivysaur's grab is a bit laggy, though. Squirtle apparently has a long dashing grab range, and once Squirtle has the opponent in his hands, a down-throw finishes anyone and anything at 300%.
I think Ivysaur might also be a good option due to a strong fair with great range that is hard to punish with a shieldgrab.
Depends on your opponent, really.

 

[Prince of Pain]

You say that the only thing that is affected by fatigue is damage and knock back, but not speed. Is it possible that with Squirtle (possibly the other two, but he can combo the easiest from what I've seen) will be able to combo even more effectively while fatigued? I can see this easily happening due to the fact that he'll be just as fast but his moves won't end a combo as easily, so high level players might be able to anger their opponents with this. This could potentially add a strong mind game element, coupled with some witty trash talk.

 

[Card]

Massive Moveset Images Update!!!!

I took the time to take screencaps of every single move each Pokemon can do. (Thats a lot of images... believe me). After cropping, resizing, saving, and uploading each one, I've finally finished and got them all in the guide.

Just when I thought this guide couldn't get any more descriptive...

Take a look... Please!


Also; I would like some of my readers feedback. What are your thoughts on the images I've added to each move. Does it look nice? Are they too small? Unclear perhaps? Should some images be bigger while others smaller?

Another thing.. I've got every image here full sized as well, so if someone wants a full sized image of one of the attacks for a signature or wallpaper or something.. Just leave your e-mail address and I'll send you the images you request.

 

[Knyaguy]

Massive Moveset Images Update!!!!

I took the time to take screencaps of every single move each Pokemon can do. (Thats a lot of images... believe me). After cropping, resizing, saving, and uploading each one, I've finally finished and got them all in the guide.

Just when I thought this guide couldn't get any more descriptive...

Take a look... Please!


Also; I would like some of my readers feedback. What are your thoughts on the images I've added to each move. Does it look nice? Are they too small? Unclear perhaps? Should some images be bigger while others smaller?

Another thing.. I've got every image here full sized as well, so if someone wants a full sized image of one of the attacks for a signature or wallpaper or something.. Just ask I'll post it up.

The Ivysaur Bullet seed looks little unclear but otherwise the rest are good.

Squirtle: U-Tilt, Up Taunt, U-Smash, U tilt
Ivysaur: N-Air, U- Air D-Air, Side taunt
Charizard: D-Smash, side taunt, F-Tilt

You can just PM them to me if you please

 

[squiser]

Looks great Card... size is perfect imo - any bigger and the post would look cluttered.

 

[infernovia]

I am pretty sure all searches for "Pokemon Trainer Brawl" should link to the first page in this thread, really, you have outdone yourself. Nothing else even compares. The pictures were very useful, (although I would have liked a Charizard dthrow one for pure awesomeness) and you got some really good shots (charizard earthquake being one of them, which I would like in high quality). Oh and can someone pause the Charizard's fair and see what it looks like from the front?

Now, the only thing really remaining is combo vids. This guide is already more useful than any video I have seen, barring chillin's.

Although, if I had to comment, I would like you to put the data you got from elemental knockback.

And also, I want to ask, how is bulletseed out of a sheild?

 

[MysticKenji]

The images are awesome.
Good work, Card.

 

[ama(m/t)]

UTilt can combo more than twice if you have a good grasp of the hitstun the move leaves them in.
I can easily get off six on a big character like Snake at around the 20% range.

I haven't tested it, I've only used it in actual games so I'm not sure of the exact percents and how many hits you can get in at each percent.

 

[kingofping4]

This may have been answered already, but if it was I overlooked it.

Can Charizard glide AFTER using UpB, or is UpB just the last-ditch effort for below the stage recovery?

 

[ama(m/t)]

you can not glide after up b

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

wowwaweewa. this is amazing

 

[ThunderHero]

Awsome job at the image update!

 

[Helios42]

I utterly love the moveset pics, it adds a nice illustration to an already great guide. On the other hand, it makes a massivly long guide even longer, but I don't really mind that. The pictures are fine in terms of size, btw. I'm going to the gamestop tourney, and I'm so useing pt. At this point, I know more about him then I do about how samus and bowser (my other mains) have changed, and it's mainly thanks to this guide. Any suggestions in terms of stratagy?

 

[dobee]

Card, you are a genius for doing this guide. I've must of read this whole thing about 4 times... all I have left to do with PT now is actually play him. lol

 

[Sgt_Woodsy]

I'll definitely be using this.

Well done.

 

[Darth Wedel]

Really nice guide. I'm pumped now, i really, really wanna try out PT.

The images are very nice, some of them are sligthly unclear without really seeing any videos but good descriptions get the idea of the moves across pretty well.

I don't really think there's much need to resize any of the images- the bigger ones are bigger with good reason (i.e. Char's bigger than Squirtle, lol)


An enquiry, though, about the use of the pokemon (is this the wrong thread?) :

would i be right in saying that...

Squirtle's more useful when... you and your opponent are both on low percentages (better combo capabilities, you don't get knocked around too far);

Ivysaur's more useful when... you're on a lower percentage (you can rack up damage, and Ivy's poor recovery won't be exploited), and;

Char's more useful when... you're both on high percentages (because of his tanking abilities- great recovery and knockback, etc) ?


Also, would i be right if i said that ivy's and squirtle's roles are somewhat similar- racking up damage? In which case would it make sense to switch between them quickly while racking up damage, and use Char as the finisher? Or...would too much switching be impractical? I mean, i've seen more than one video where PT only lost stocks when he changed character...

 

[infernovia]

Don't discount the other two. Squirtle can psuedo WoP well (and can get back on the stage unless like sent to his death) and Ivysaur has very nice smashes for great KO potential. Remember, if you get stuck with one mentality, especially with PT, you are that much easier to KO. Use PT for its full potential.

 

[Card]

Thanks everyone. I'm glad that my guide is helpful. I'll be updating it even more in the future, with even more data and helpful tricks and what not.

would i be right in saying that...

Squirtle's more useful when... you and your opponent are both on low percentages (better combo capabilities, you don't get knocked around too far);

Ivysaur's more useful when... you're on a lower percentage (you can rack up damage, and Ivy's poor recovery won't be exploited), and;

Char's more useful when... you're both on high percentages (because of his tanking abilities- great recovery and knockback, etc) ?

Also, would i be right if i said that ivy's and squirtle's roles are somewhat similar- racking up damage? In which case would it make sense to switch between them quickly while racking up damage, and use Char as the finisher? Or...would too much switching be impractical? I mean, i've seen more than one video where PT only lost stocks when he changed character...

You are partially correct, and partially wrong at the same time.

I've said this in my guide, but one of the main qualities that a P. Trainer user needs is ADAPTABILITY. It is seriously one of the key components to playing P. Trainer, and it's a quality that you need to have MORE of than your opponent, in order to be successful. If you can adapt to situations better than your opponent can, you'll instantly have the upper advantage when playing P. Trainer.

Your "order theory" works but...
What happens if Squirtle happens to have a bad match-up against your opponent?
What happens if Squirtle gets overwhelmed and nearly dies before switching?
What happens if Ivysaur gets easy gimped edge hogged and Charizard is sent out on the new stock?
What happens if Charizard is left to K.O an opponent whom Charizard has problems hitting and takes a lot of hits instead?

The list goes on...

As you can see, its about ADAPTING to your current situation, on the current level, against the current opponent. There is no way that you can use a "set order" and do a "set task" as such. But on the other hand, it is definitely possible for the order which you stated above to work, in fact it works many times during my game play, and I end up switching 3 times per 1 stock. But like I said, you are partially right, partially wrong. If any of the above situations happened, you need to have the ability to adapt to the situation, and turn the tables in your favor.

Hope this advice was helpful

 

[infernovia]

Hey, I am going to ask this question again. How is bullet seed out of a shield? Apparently, every move can be done out of a shield, so I wanna ask about this one specifically. Does the "pop" effect work? How hard is powersheilding in this game?

 

[Card]

Hey, I am going to ask this question again. How is bullet seed out of a shield? Apparently, every move can be done out of a shield, so I wanna ask about this one specifically. Does the "pop" effect work? How hard is powersheilding in this game?

Bullet Seed out of Shield works, but its still a risky move. Mainly because if you are too far and you miss the "pop" effect, you'll get punished HARD. If your opponent knows how to space his aerials properly, he should always be out of range for an out of shield Bullet Seed, so it isn't THAT effective as you might imagine, but it still works very very well.

Powershielding is much much easier to do in Brawl. It happens quite often with me. I remember once during Ike's triple-jab combo, I did;

Power Shield - first hit
Side-Step - second hit
Power Shield - third hit
Out-of-Shield Bullet Seed

pain and complaining ensued

 

[infernovia]

Powershielding is much much easier to do in Brawl. It happens quite often with me. I remember once during Ike's triple-jab combo, I did;

Power Shield - first hit
Side-Step - second hit
Power Shield - third hit
Out-of-Shield Bullet Seed

pain and complaining ensued

I wish I had a video.

Ok, dang, I was kinda expecting it to be a bit of a GTFO/**** your mind kinda move. Well, since Ivysaur needs some spacing in its moves, what moves do you like to use if you consider bullet seed to be too risky (I guess with rest's hitbox, you can't expect much).

 

[Card]

I wish I had a video.

Ok, dang, I was kinda expecting it to be a bit of a GTFO/**** your mind kinda move. Well, since Ivysaur needs some spacing in its moves, what moves do you like to use if you consider bullet seed to be too risky (I guess with rest's hitbox, you can't expect much).

Grab I'm old fashioned.

 

[Darth Wedel]

As you can see, its about ADAPTING to your current situation, on the current level, against the current opponent. There is no way that you can use a "set order" and do a "set task" as such. But on the other hand, it is definitely possible for the order which you stated above to work, in fact it works many times during my game play, and I end up switching 3 times per 1 stock. But like I said, you are partially right, partially wrong. If any of the above situations happened, you need to have the ability to adapt to the situation, and turn the tables in your favor.

Hope this advice was helpful

Yeah, thanks plenty. But those "general situations" i meantioned earlier are for the most part correct? I posted them just so i'd get a general idea of what i'd be looking for to switch into / out of, i you get what i mean.

And switching three times per one stock seems a bit extreme compared to a lot of the videos i've seen where they only change when they get KO'd and switch automatically... but at the same time i'm glad, because someone's doing it.

So it is worth switching into a specific advantageous situation? Like you said, you switch a lot, but isn't that awfully difficult, or do you only switch when you knock someone waay back?

Sorry if you've answered that ten times already >.<

 

[Card]

Yeah, thanks plenty. But those "general situations" i meantioned earlier are for the most part correct? I posted them just so i'd get a general idea of what i'd be looking for to switch into / out of, i you get what i mean.

And switching three times per one stock seems a bit extreme compared to a lot of the videos i've seen where they only change when they get KO'd and switch automatically... but at the same time i'm glad, because someone's doing it.

So it is worth switching into a specific advantageous situation? Like you said, you switch a lot, but isn't that awfully difficult, or do you only switch when you knock someone waay back?

Sorry if you've answered that ten times already >.<

now that I think about it, by 3 times I actually meant 2 times
Usually if I start a stock as Squirtle, I'll end up getting killed as Charizard.
Again though, it depends a lot on the situation. Sometimes I may kill my opponent as Ivysaur and I'll still have low percent, so I'll stick around with Ivysaur on the next stock and switch to Charizard later. Or if I don't get a safe switching opportunity and I'm already at higher % with Squirtle, I'll just keep him in until he dies.


Also, safe switching is very easy when you know how to do it. Which reminds me.. I really should write a section in my guide dedicated to Safe switching...

Firstly it requires that you are really quick with your Down+B. You've got to know ahead of time that you want to switch. You've got to be telling yourself "Ok, I need to make this next attack give me a window to safe switch." that way the INSTANT you land the attack and the opponent is flying, you switch.

Theres also a variety of moves on the P. Trainer that send the opponent flying at particularly low percentages, nothing really deadly but its enough to give you a safe switch. Squirtle's Down throw and Ivysaurs Back throw in particular.

I'll write up a section sometime...

 

[Darth Wedel]

now that I think about it, by 3 times I actually meant 2 times

yeah, i didn't notice that either ^^;; but i got what you meant

Firstly it requires that you are really quick with your Down+B. You've got to know ahead of time that you want to switch. You've got to be telling yourself "Ok, I need to make this next attack give me a window to safe switch." that way the INSTANT you land the attack and the opponent is flying, you switch.

great, that's what i was looking for. in every video i've seen where a PT player switched, the player could never seem to make up their decision quickly and always seemed to get bashed for it. I really wanted to know whether or not it could be achieved without getting bashed, lol.