Pokemon Trainer: an In-Depth Analysis & Guide

[pieisamazing]

I read your whole post, Card and also re-read the areas in which this (stamina) might be discussed, and I had something to add. Whether or not is really useful or not is for others to decide.

This would be more for the people who want to main one Pokemon (I don't agree, but okay), but I can also see how it might be used to cycle between two pokemon "types" (your damage dealer and killer, the way I see it). Anyways, I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere, but stamina resets when any of the three pokemon are defeated.

Example: Suppose you like using Squirtle to deal massive amounts of damage, but have trouble killing with him, and prefer using Ivysaur or Charizard for that part. You can fight with Squirtle until he becomes fatigued or until you are ready to switch, knock your opponent away, and switch pokemon. You will have a highly damaged Ivysaur/Charizard (Depending on how much time you have to change), but you will also have your KOer who can finish the enemy off. Even dealing a slight bit of damage before dying with that pokemon still gives you an advantage, and then, upon their death, you cycle back to Squirtle, now at full stamina, to begin the process anew!

It seems situational, but as this is an analysis of the character, I just felt that something along these lines should be added.

 

[Coselm]

Idk if anyone has brought this up yet but I just figured out a controller setup that messes up Hyrdroplaning and may be preventing somebody from effectively using it without them knowing it.

The first time I tried it I got it down easily, but after that I couldn't get it. The reason why is because I hadn't used my name the first time, so I was playing by the default controls...

The point is, if you had "Tap Jump" (which is the ability to jump with the control stick by pressing up) turned off, Squirtle won't go farther than his usual foxtrot with his usmash.

It was bugging me and I finally fixed the problem, so I just though I'd share it here in case anyone else has the same problem. I think having Tap Jump on is a fair trade for Hydroplaning anyway lol...

Yeah I was trying to do that for like an hour today... thank you so very much for randomly mentioning that.

 

[Elliot Gale]

I would like to take this opportunity to say : footstool jump spikes are too good.

 

[Tipzntrix]

I like those Ivy combos TechnoMonster. I also have one to add. With the direction your dash attack sends the foe in, you can at medium percentages (35-60%) hit with the dash attack and follow up with up+B vine whip. This combo doesn't have killing potential (see percents it works at), but it should knock your opponent off the stage and can get an up+B sweetspot, where you will have the advantage.

 

[Boolossus]

This is a really awesome guide, you make all 3 pokemon sound broken, lol. I really love Ivy's Up Smash, I think it's THE most powerful upsmash in the game, in regards to knockback. Uncharged it kills Fox off the top of FD at 50%

Trap them in Bullet Seed + Usmash = Stock. (Well, it's not that simple most of the time =p)

 

[squiser]

I can't seem to do this Charizard infinite thing. So it's just full jump, uair, double jump, uair, double jump, uair, etc.? I'll keep trying >_<

Also Card, it's a small thing for PT, but you should add wavebouncing. It's not terribly useful for Squirtle, but Ivysaur's Razor Leaf and Charizard's Rock Smash get some interesting spacing and retreating when you wavebounce. I've used sh-wavebounce Rock Smash in particular to land quite a few hits. And if we ever find a way to make neutral-B wavebounce more reliable, Ivysaur's Bullet Seed is pretty trippy too.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

Ya it's just double jump u-air, it resets your double jump or whatever, be wary of how close to the ground you are aswell. Timing is quite hard at first, but once you first get it, you'll immediately get a feel for its timing. I've been doing it pretty consistently as of late.

 

[Doval]

Checked the last three pages before this one and didn't see the topic covered. Pokemon ARE affected by types, to a limited extenct.

To be more specific, Squirtle suffers increased KNOCKBACK (percentage stays the same) from Grass attacks (such as Ivysaur's up-smash) and reduced knockback from Fire attacks (not limited to Charizard's. Any attack that will never kill a Red Pikmin or that will thaw you out of a Freezie will do.) Likewise, Ivysaur takes more knockback from fire attacks and less knockback from water attacks (as far as I know the only Water attacks in the game are Squirtle's Up Smash, Down Smash, and Waterfall.) Charizard takes more knockback from water attacks and less knockback from grass attacks.

Pokemon do NOT resist their own type, and Electricity or other types don't come into play as far as having increased or decreased knockback goes. Pikachu doesn't have resistances or weaknesses. I doubt Lucario has any as well.

It's quite easy to tell. Here's a list of the percentages at which characters die off the side of Final Destination when hit by Mario's down smash with no DI, when standing at the center of the stage. Because we're looking at horizontal kill %'s, falling speed doesn't come into play and we get pretty clear ideas of character weights.

Bowser 151
DK 150
Snake 147
Dedede 146
Samus 145
Charizard 145
Yoshi 143
Wario 143
Ganon 143
ROB 143
Ike 141
Link 140
C.Falcon 138
Ivysaur 138
Lucario 138
Mario 136
Luigi 136
Wolf 136
Pit 133
Ness 133
Sonic 133
Toon Link 132
Lucas 132
Peach 131
Diddy 131
IC 130
Marth 128
Zelda 127
Olimar 125
Sheik 123
ZS Samus 123
Kirby 122
Falco 122
Meta Knight 121
Pikachu 121
G&W 119
Fox 117
Squirtle 117
Jigglypuff 115

Squirtle is insanely light, while Ivysaur has "average" weight if we use Mario as the comparison. However, when hit by fire attacks, Ivysaur always dies before Squirtle. For instance, Mario's F-smash will kill Squirtle at 103% (which is the % Mario dies at from the same attack) whereas Ivysaur dies at only 89%, the same % at which G&W dies.

Likewise, Ivysaur's Up Smash will kill Fox off the top of FD at 52%, but it'll kill Squirtle at only 36%. Squirtle and Fox have the same weight; their "vertical weights" differ slightly because of falling speed but not enough to cause such a drastic difference; the only character between Fox and Squirtle in terms of vertical kill %'s is Game & Watch.

 

[Tipzntrix]

I didn't even know they were! Now I know to match up against other PTs . And use squirtle vs Mario XDDD!

 

[t0m0]

This is the most well written guide ive seen on the forums, ever. Great job man, Even though I don't use PT this is a amazing guide. Thanks for making a great contribution to the boards.

 

[Doval]

Just don't forget that Squirtle is still light as paper against every other Mario attack that isn't the Forward Smash, and that Charizard will still be harder to kill with fire moves than Squirtle due to the big weight difference.

 

[HammerWang]

Checked the last three pages before this one and didn't see the topic covered. Pokemon ARE affected by types, to a limited extenct.

To be more specific, Squirtle suffers increased KNOCKBACK (percentage stays the same) from Grass attacks (such as Ivysaur's up-smash) and reduced knockback from Fire attacks (not limited to Charizard's. Any attack that will never kill a Red Pikmin or that will thaw you out of a Freezie will do.) Likewise, Ivysaur takes more knockback from fire attacks and less knockback from water attacks (as far as I know the only Water attacks in the game are Squirtle's Up Smash, Down Smash, and Waterfall.) Charizard takes more knockback from water attacks and less knockback from grass attacks.

Pokemon do NOT resist their own type, and Electricity or other types don't come into play as far as having increased or decreased knockback goes. Pikachu doesn't have resistances or weaknesses. I doubt Lucario has any as well.

It's quite easy to tell. Here's a list of the percentages at which characters die off the side of Final Destination when hit by Mario's down smash with no DI, when standing at the center of the stage. Because we're looking at horizontal kill %'s, falling speed doesn't come into play and we get pretty clear ideas of character weights.

Bowser 151
DK 150
Snake 147
Dedede 146
Samus 145
Charizard 145
Yoshi 143
Wario 143
Ganon 143
ROB 143
Ike 141
Link 140
C.Falcon 138
Ivysaur 138
Lucario 138
Mario 136
Luigi 136
Wolf 136
Pit 133
Ness 133
Sonic 133
Toon Link 132
Lucas 132
Peach 131
Diddy 131
IC 130
Marth 128
Zelda 127
Olimar 125
Sheik 123
ZS Samus 123
Kirby 122
Falco 122
Meta Knight 121
Pikachu 121
G&W 119
Fox 117
Squirtle 117
Jigglypuff 115

Squirtle is insanely light, while Ivysaur has "average" weight if we use Mario as the comparison. However, when hit by fire attacks, Ivysaur always dies before Squirtle. For instance, Mario's F-smash will kill Squirtle at 103% (which is the % Mario dies at from the same attack) whereas Ivysaur dies at only 89%, the same % at which G&W dies.

Likewise, Ivysaur's Up Smash will kill Fox off the top of FD at 52%, but it'll kill Squirtle at only 36%. Squirtle and Fox have the same weight; their "vertical weights" differ slightly because of falling speed but not enough to cause such a drastic difference; the only character between Fox and Squirtle in terms of vertical kill %'s is Game & Watch.

very nice add
i honestly doubted the "type weaknesses" but this jus swayed me into believing O.O
lol and squirtle death at 36% is horrible!

 

[Deleted member]

this is a great resource!
gj card =D

 

[Fearmy]

The weakness and resistances look like what it did from the meta game, so shouldn't ivysaur be weak to ground moves? (poison and ground)

 

[Fawriel]

The weakness and resistances look like what it did from the meta game, so shouldn't ivysaur be weak to ground moves? (poison and ground)

Aside from the fact that Grass neutralizes Poison's weakness to Ground moves, wasn't it already made clear that only Water, Grass and Fire moves count in this? Otherwise Ivysaur and Charizard should have a resistance to Fighting type moves. That would be interesting.

 

[Fino]

great guide, love it man. keep up the good work
Pokemon trainer is my second pick, so I'm not as fluent with him, but this definatly helped me out some
Thanks

~fino

 

[Fearmy]

Aside from the fact that Grass neutralizes Poison's weakness to Ground moves, wasn't it already made clear that only Water, Grass and Fire moves count in this? Otherwise Ivysaur and Charizard should have a resistance to Fighting type moves. That would be interesting.

actually it doesn't cancel

 

[Card]

Also Card, it's a small thing for PT, but you should add wavebouncing. It's not terribly useful for Squirtle, but Ivysaur's Razor Leaf and Charizard's Rock Smash get some interesting spacing and retreating when you wavebounce. I've used sh-wavebounce Rock Smash in particular to land quite a few hits. And if we ever find a way to make neutral-B wavebounce more reliable, Ivysaur's Bullet Seed is pretty trippy too.

I really don't see anyone using B-Sticking with P. Trainer.

Useless with Squirtle
Useless with Ivysaur
Borderline Useless with Charizard

If someone ever documents (in video format) using B-Sticking EFFECTIVELY in a match, I'll consider adding B-Sticking to the guide. But for now, I prefer using my C-Stick for Smashes, Aerials, and Tilts.

Ya it's just double jump u-air, it resets your double jump or whatever, be wary of how close to the ground you are aswell. Timing is quite hard at first, but once you first get it, you'll immediately get a feel for its timing. I've been doing it pretty consistently as of late.

I've also been doing it. But after trying to use it in a match I just realized just how useless of a technique it sort of became. I find Charizard to be at his best when planted firmly on the ground. He has an incredibly strong camping game. Tilt wrecks opponents infront, U-Smash for anything anywhere above you, and D-Smash wrecks anyone who tries to roll behind. Not to mention his sick grab range, and imbalanced use of Flamethrower and Rock Smash...

I find that being in the Air just really limits his options. F-Air has some really ******** properties on grounded opponents (no knockback), and N-Air comes out relatively slow (atleast it auto-cancels, so it can be followed with jabs or anything of the sort). So pretty much the best thing to do out of an infinite U-Air is Rock-Smash or Flame Thrower, but in that case I'd rather just jump once and do it. The infinite jump thing becomes sort of obsolete. Although I do see B-Air MAYBE being slightly useful... I'll have to do many more tests

Checked the last three pages before this one and didn't see the topic covered. Pokemon ARE affected by types, to a limited extenct.

Yea I found that out a few weeks back. I wrote it down somewhere, but I couldn't get accurate results for Squirtle. I guess I should add it to the guide



btw to everyone;

I've been noticing in alot of "Tier List" threads that P. Trainer is being rated seriously freggin LOW TIER. I seriously LAUGH out loud whenever I see that. I know that most of you think that I just make P. Trainer sound really awesome, but seriously the fact of the matter is that he really IS a very good character. Seriously don't take those user-made tier lists to heart. P. Trainer will be High Tier, mark my words. I'm not saying this as a P. Trainer fanboy either. I see the potential in every character on the roster, and P. Trainer is leaps and bounds ahead.

I think I said this in my guide, but I think the best comparison is P. Trainer to Ice Climbers in Melee. When Melee was first released, Ice Climbers were rated extremely low in the tier list. They we're a unique character who played completely different to everyone on the roster, so a lot of people misjudged them and saw them as being worse than the rest of the cast. Whether it's because they were too difficult to play, or that NO ONE played them, for some reason people just thought they were a bad character. This is the exact same scenario for P. Trainer. We have a unique character that plays completely different to everyone on the roster (3 chars in 1, stamina), and P. Trainers are not making any appearances at any tournaments. Fastforward 5 years after Melee's release, Ice Climbers are now the 6th highest tiered characters, with Chu Dat ranked 3rd in the world who mains them, and Ice Climbers are heralded as being "Character with the most potential" right alongside Fox.

So yea, had to get that off my chest.

P. Trainer is high tier. Not top... but definitely at least high-mid.

 

[Kantō]

very awsome found this extremly helpful

 

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

I really don't see anyone using B-Sticking with P. Trainer.

Useless with Squirtle
Useless with Ivysaur
Borderline Useless with Charizard

agreed. thought at first that it might work really well for razor leaf, but was disappointed when I actually tried it.

btw to everyone;

I've been noticing in alot of "Tier List" threads that P. Trainer is being rated seriously freggin LOW TIER. I seriously LAUGH out loud whenever I see that. I know that most of you think that I just make P. Trainer sound really awesome, but seriously the fact of the matter is that he really IS a very good character. Seriously don't take those user-made tier lists to heart. P. Trainer will be High Tier, mark my words. I'm not saying this as a P. Trainer fanboy either. I see the potential in every character on the roster, and P. Trainer is leaps and bounds ahead.

I think I said this in my guide, but I think the best comparison is P. Trainer to Ice Climbers in Melee. When Melee was first released, Ice Climbers were rated extremely low in the tier list. They we're a unique character who played completely different to everyone on the roster, so a lot of people misjudged them and saw them as being worse than the rest of the cast. Whether it's because they were too difficult to play, or that NO ONE played them, for some reason people just thought they were a bad character. This is the exact same scenario for P. Trainer. We have a unique character that plays completely different to everyone on the roster (3 chars in 1, stamina), and P. Trainers are not making any appearances at any tournaments. Fastforward 5 years after Melee's release, Ice Climbers are now the 6th highest tiered characters, with Chu Dat ranked 3rd in the world who mains them, and Ice Climbers are heralded as being "Character with the most potential" right alongside Fox.

So yea, had to get that off my chest.

P. Trainer is high tier. Not top... but definitely at least high-mid.

too soon to tell yet o_o;;; I can't even tell what the heck high tier means in brawl. What if PT isn't the only one who "pulls an IC"?
Though, I can at least agree that I don't see any real evidence for PT being at the bottom of the tier list, when compared with everyone else. (b^^)b
and I DO realize that you've probably made some valid analysis on the topic, so your judgment is nowhere near worthless, and infinitely better than most of us who don't even know much about how the other chars play.

 

[Fawriel]

Hmm. While I trust your judgment, Card, I'm not entirely sure about PT's high position. He probably isn't worthy of being considered below average, but... while the Ice Climbers have the strength of two characters, those two characters are more or less freely available at all times... Pokemon Trainer's three-character-power is pretty disjointed compared to that, having to take over a second on the ground to switch.
Characters like Toon Link, Marth or Pit have, under all conditions, all of Squirtle's combos without his lack of range and low weight, all of Ivy's range and KO power without the easily gimped recovery, and all of Charizard's power without his awkward speed. A good PT player will have an edge against many characters, but the really overpowered ones might destroy him completely.

(b^^)b

^_^

 

[Card]

Hmm. While I trust your judgment, Card, I'm not entirely sure about PT's high position. He probably isn't worthy of being considered below average, but... while the Ice Climbers have the strength of two characters, those two characters are more or less freely available at all times... Pokemon Trainer's three-character-power is pretty disjointed compared to that, having to take over a second on the ground to switch.
Characters like Toon Link, Marth or Pit have, under all conditions, all of Squirtle's combos without his lack of range and low weight, all of Ivy's range and KO power without the easily gimped recovery, and all of Charizard's power without his awkward speed. A good PT player will have an edge against many characters, but the really overpowered ones might destroy him completely.



^_^

Don't get me wrong, it is definitely to early to tell.

But if P. Trainer is ANYWHERE in the bottom HALF of the tier list, something is horribly wrong with the tier list. I also mean P. Trainer as a whole; some tier lists feature the 3 Pokemon seperately (just like ZSS/Samus & Zelda/Sheik) which I think is horribly wrong to do.

There is actually one special feature that P. Trainer also has. It's that he does not have one true bad match-up in the entire roster. This is an INCREDIBLE advantage. You can play P. Trainer against every character, and if you use your Pokemon Change efficiently and effectively, you can literally almost always play at an advantage.

While you are correct in saying that Pit, Marth and the other top-tiers have the advantages of all the 3 Pokemon at once, they also have their own particular weaknesses. Ivysaur will always outrange Marth, Squirtle will always outprioritize Pits Aerial game, Ivysaur will always wreck Toon Links projectiles and out-range him, and Charizard... well he's a punching bag for many many characters Charizard's purpose is to overcome Ivysaurs weaknesses really, and that is horrible recovery and lightweight. Whenever Charizard comes out, my purpose is to do as much damage as possible and playing incredibly campy, and survive as long as possible in order to gain as much stock lead as possible. Even though Charizard is essentially a very low tiered character, but because I play him the way I mentionned, he becomes infinitely better than most lower tiered characters.

Remember, Marth won't magically spawn a Projectile game in the middle of the match, Pit and Toon Link won't magically become heavier, or gain more range in the middle of the match. P. Trainer can

I also don't mean for people to take the IC Example too literally. I don't mean to look at the actual character themselves, but what kind of character they are (2 characters in 1). IC were very different from the norm, because of this it's very safe to say that IC's were a very very underplayed character. Partially because they aren't a very well known Nintendo character, but I think the real reason is because they have an unorthodox playstyle, that just didn't attract newer players.

I believe P. Trainer to be the same way. P. Trainer isn't a very attractive character for newer players. Whether it's because of the Stamina, or because you are forced to switch after getting killed, or because each Pokemon has obvious weaknesses, it's just not going to be a highly played character. Judging just by the Tournament C3 which just pass, there was I think only 1 P. Trainer player, and he played it as an alt. But all its going to take is the "Chu-Dat of P. Trainers" for P. Trainer to be recognized as above average to high tiering.

I'm calling it now ;P I'll bring up this post a year or two from now!

 

[Thinkaman]

I really don't see anyone using B-Sticking with P. Trainer.

Useless with Squirtle
Useless with Ivysaur
Borderline Useless with Charizard

B-sticking is indeed worthless with Squirtle, but Bullet Seed, Razor Leaf, and Rock Smash all benefit immensely from it. Believe me, when an opponent approaches with a short-range aerial and you avoid it by b-sticking a backwards Rock Smash to the face, it's the best feeling in the world. Ivysaur also gains a ton from auto-RAR, even if the other two do not.

 

[Card]

B-sticking is indeed worthless with Squirtle, but Bullet Seed, Razor Leaf, and Rock Smash all benefit immensely from it. Believe me, when an opponent approaches with a short-range aerial and you avoid it by b-sticking a backwards Rock Smash to the face, it's the best feeling in the world. Ivysaur also gains a ton from auto-RAR, even if the other two do not.

Razor Leaf does NOT benefit from B-Sticking. Maybe very very marginally
It's possible to short-hop forward, Razor Leaf on the way up, then smash the stick backwards and land back in the same spot you jumped from. This is the exact same thing which B-Sticking Razor Leaf accomplishes, only it's easier to do. Believe me, when I saw how much Lucas benefitted from B-Sticking PK Fires, I imagined Ivysaur getting so much better, only to be disappointed.

Bullet Seed, while I won't downright say B-Sticking it is useless, I have a very hard time imagining that it will. First of all, about 95% of Bullet Seeds I do are performed while I am grounded. The main reason for that is being the "pop-up" effect which Bullet Seed has, which is almost impossible to land properly while airborne (for that matter, does the pop-effect even exist if the attack is used in the air?). So in order for Bullet Seed to even be effective with an aerial bullet seed, the opponent would have to be above and slightly behind Ivysaur. How many times does a situation like THAT occur in the course of a match? Any opponent who knows Ivysaur, knows that going directly above him is just suicide.

Rock Smash and Flame Thrower, like I said, are borderline useless. Yes they have their uses, but it is nothing spectacularly game changing like Lucas PK-Fire B-Sticking. It does bring up some interesting mindgames with Rock-Smash, I will definitely give you that.

I also don't know if you've seen, but it was discovered yesterday that it's possible to Dash Attack cancel U-Smash with every character, which allows characters to keep momentum while using an up-smash. Sort of like a gimp Hydroplaning with every character. I need to do more tests with Ivysaur and Charizard, because it seems incredibly useful with Ivysaur. The catch with this is though, you need Smash set to C-Stick, so B-Stickers cannot do it.

I guess it comes down to a preference of playstyle.

 

[Thinkaman]

B-sticked Bullet Seed I have actually found to be quite useful. I've found that people do want to jump over Ivysaur, quickly mind you, in an attempt to bait a greedy up-smash or Bullet Seed they can punish. (Or perhaps simply avoid a fair I was doing.) More than once I recall punishing a person who thought they were making it to safety behind me with a B-sticked Bullet Seed.

EDIT: They also tend to naturally air-dodge when directly above Ivysaur if passing, leaving them vulnerable above and behind you.

 

[CharizardFan]

Thanks Card for this wonderful guide. ^^ I think I first stick with just Charizard (when the game arrives in Austria >_>), because I want to show in Online-Battles, that he ('zard) and I doesn't rely on the other two Pkmn. I do it just for challenge. ^^ And I say it again: Your Guide is just wonderful. ^^

 

[HammerWang]

lol when i grow up i want to be jus like you card!
make a whoop *** guide n counter any negative info on PT :D

 

[Vro]

Fantastic guide. After hearing about Squirtle's shelldashing and reading this, I've found renewed hope in PT.

 

[DoH]

Card: I'm in the SBR and I'll push to keep trainer as one character, and try to show them how high up he should be.

Trainer dittos?

 

[Fearmy]

Pffft PT is so high tier

 

[Card]

Card: I'm in the SBR and I'll push to keep trainer as one character, and try to show them how high up he should be.

Trainer dittos?

Awesome. I briefly brushed upon the subject of whether P. Trainer should be Single or Seperate tiered in another topic on this section of the boards. A lot of quotes from the first sections of my guide really explain why I feel so strongly that P. Trainer should be considered as a Single tier.

Wish I was there to back it up too

and yea, I wouldn't mind Trainer dittos. Although I tend to avoid playing P. Trainer online because the timing kind of throws me off and just gets me flustered


lol @ hammerwang, thanks I guess?

 

[Fawriel]

Wouldn't it make the most sense to list Pokemon Trainer as one character, but also rank each Pokemon separately in comparison to the other characters? You could just put them in brackets or something to show that they aren't complete, main-able characters in their own right.

 

[Tooth.piK]

Something I noticed:

Using Bulbasaur's USmash, running under the opponent, then hitting them with a full Bullet Seed stream often puts them to 83%+. On shorter stages, i.e. Final Destination, another USmash will also KO Fox at this point. I haven't tested it with other characters, but since they're so similar I'd also presume it's the same for Falco and Wolf, and other light characters.

I didn't notice this mentioned in the guide and I haven't read through all 21 pages to see if it's already been pointed out, so sorry if it has.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

heyhoo :D

great guide, eventhough i havent read it all

just a quick question...
i really have a hard time dealing with charizards glide...
first of all... so you can perform it ANY time (after your second,third,....jump) right? just by pressing Y or X (jump button)
when i try it he often uses up all his jumps and then goes into gliding mode -.-

2nd
do you think the glide-attack is any good to attack an enemy or is it only usefull for canceling the lag?

and wow i havent done the glide cancel with another jump... i really gotta practice gliding a bit


oh yeah another thing...

how would you use glide as a recovery...
rather go a straight line or gather speed by going down and then pull upwards?


concerning some of the attacks of charizard:
are you sure The Fsmash has only One hit?
it seemed to me that it has 2 hits, also alot of times the enemy would be hit really weak and just fly behind or above you a little.. i thought this was the first hit.

Rock smash: in my opinion the best approach attack
and no, its not slow... even if you´re hit before you can actually do the attack, the parts will often still hit the enemy ...
and i already did 45% with it -.-

 

[Mike87]

Great, great guide.
I dont use P trainer that much but I'll keep alot of this stuff in mind.

 

[Fearmy]

heyhoo :D

great guide, eventhough i havent read it all

just a quick question...
i really have a hard time dealing with charizards glide...
first of all... so you can perform it ANY time (after your second,third,....jump) right? just by pressing Y or X (jump button)
when i try it he often uses up all his jumps and then goes into gliding mode -.-

2nd
do you think the glide-attack is any good to attack an enemy or is it only usefull for canceling the lag?

and wow i havent done the glide cancel with another jump... i really gotta practice gliding a bit


oh yeah another thing...

how would you use glide as a recovery...
rather go a straight line or gather speed by going down and then pull upwards?


concerning some of the attacks of charizard:
are you sure The Fsmash has only One hit?
it seemed to me that it has 2 hits, also alot of times the enemy would be hit really weak and just fly behind or above you a little.. i thought this was the first hit.

Rock smash: in my opinion the best approach attack
and no, its not slow... even if you´re hit before you can actually do the attack, the parts will often still hit the enemy ...
and i already did 45% with it -.-

Well what i'm guessing is that you press the second jump, and press agian and hold it right?
then that means that you have done the 2 jumps that is probably why.

hold your jump button, then you have an extra jump

how i recovery is by going down a bit and then a bit up and continuing that so it's a bit like a wave, but that is just me.

Rock smash is a nice approach attack, but after a while, people will know that is how you aproach...

 

[squiser]

I also don't know if you've seen, but it was discovered yesterday that it's possible to Dash Attack cancel U-Smash with every character, which allows characters to keep momentum while using an up-smash. Sort of like a gimp Hydroplaning with every character. I need to do more tests with Ivysaur and Charizard, because it seems incredibly useful with Ivysaur. The catch with this is though, you need Smash set to C-Stick, so B-Stickers cannot do it.

Yeah I used B-sticking and mentioned it because I figured it only gives one more option to a character without really taking away anything that couldn't be fixed by a change in playstyle. With this though, I set my C-stick back to smash today lol.

 

[Fearmy]

Yeah I used B-sticking and mentioned it because I figured it only gives one more option to a character without really taking away anything that couldn't be fixed by a change in playstyle. With this though, I set my C-stick back to smash today lol.

Wait this was discovered yesterday? i've been using it and that's how i get most of my kills with ivy, i run, ppl think i dash attack, so they jump and bam

 

[squiser]

It's more than that. This is actually starting the dash attack, then cancelling it into an up-smash to keep the momentum, and C-stick to smash is needed for that. Characters can slide anywhere from 1/4 to over 1/2 of FD while charging their upsmash like this.

 

[Fearmy]

Hmmm i tried it out, can't get it to work at all. What has been happening to me is that either i Dash attack or i just do my sliding U smash.