Pokemon Trainer: an In-Depth Analysis & Guide

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Hey Card, I changed the name of my thread since it now includes Charizard. Just so you know.

 

[kingofping4]

I think a safe switching section would be really helpful. I've seen a lot of videos where I was thinking "ok switch now!" when they'd land a big hit, but they'd usually just jump and miss the aerial. Other times they wait until the opponent is already on the way back in, then they think "oh i guess i'll switch" and they usually get ko'd.

 

[Hydde]

this guide, together with some videos... made me select PT as my secondary character.

he seems to be a hell of a character to learn but looks just too much fun to ignore!!,,

just 2 days to go....


and hey good job with the guide, i love it.... this are the kind of guides all characters need

 

[Hark21Ball]

Great Post..P.Trainer looks amazing i cant wait to play!!

 

[Card]

Well, I added Hydroplaning to the guide in the Squirtle section;


In just a few hours everyone will get their hands on Brawl! I hope everyone has just as much fun with Pokemon Trainer as I am having, and I hope my guide was of use to you all.

Have fun!

 

[EggSucker]

I just finished reading this guide Card, and really I appreciate it because I had my doubts with PT for a while. But I really want to try maining him along with Yoshi. Even if he isn't going to be high tier, he might if we can get some good players to use him in tournaments.

 

[LAMbeast]

WOW, thanks for that.
That was a somewhat detailed impression of pokemon trainer.
Must've taken a while to write that.
I look forward to trying out pokemon trainer.

 

[infernovia]

I played PT today and your guide definitely helped a lot.

Charizard was probably my favorite, and using his tilts cannot be emphasized enough. He comes out fast, hits hard, and can take a tremendous amount of punishment. Against casuals, approaching with flamethrower really screws with them and allows you to control the position. The squirtle combos and move guide REALLY helped. I am having trouble controlling Ivysaur, even though he probably gets most of the KOs.

Really, thank you very much for writing this. Pokemon Trainer is probably my favorite at the moment.

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Only 1 thing I noticed was wrong:

Ivysaurs Razor leaf doesn't go through Link's projectiles. They cancel out

 

[Dreiko]

I believe i've found a very nice use for squirtle's side B , it's a very safe way of getting from the air safe to the ground , many times opponents tend to juggle you with potential KO power but if you use side B you actually have a chance of doing damage and are perfectly safe hie traveling to safe ground, also if you tilt to the opposite direction of the one you're sliding you slide for less time and if you tilt to the same direction you're sliding you slide much farther...i find the shorter version being very nice since it doesn't lest you potentially falling off a stage.

 

[Papapaint]

Awesome guide. A++++, would read again.

 

[Guin]

Thanks for the super guide. I always use Charizard now. Keep it up. =P

 

[kitsuneko345]

Thanks for making this guide. I thought that Squirtle would be weaker than the others, but now I can feel comfortable using him as often as Ivysaur and Charizard.

One question though:

Down Aerial - Turns upside-down and uses the Up Aerial, shooting a burst of gas out of the bulb with high knockback. Pushes Ivysaur up a little, and can spike with the initial hitbox.

If the Bolded Text is true, can it help with recovery if you're outsite the grab range and/or someone is already on the edge?

Quote is From SmashWiki.

 

[ama(m/t)]

It doesn't really push you up, it halts your vertical movement.
At the same time, it stops your horizontal movement, so it can't really be used to help you recover in the sense that it gives you more distance.
It can, however, be used as a maneuvering tool to avoid people because it changes the timing of your return slightly.

It will put you at a disadvantage if you use it and it doesn't mess up the timing of your opponent's edgeguard because it will give them more time to grab the edge or whatever.

 

[BAND!T]

i play charizard best now which is funny.. i should follow the tactics for squirtle and ivysaur cuz i play very aggresively... excellent guide btw.

 

[kitsuneko345]

It doesn't really push you up, it halts your vertical movement.
At the same time, it stops your horizontal movement, so it can't really be used to help you recover in the sense that it gives you more distance.
It can, however, be used as a maneuvering tool to avoid people because it changes the timing of your return slightly.

It will put you at a disadvantage if you use it and it doesn't mess up the timing of your opponent's edgeguard because it will give them more time to grab the edge or whatever.

Oh. Thanks, although you confused your verticals and horizontals (I think).

There goes that possibility. I guess I can beat someone with that as an edgeguard... or possibly give me more time for my next strategy.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Good god squirtle sucks. You made it seem like he was good.

He runs slow too! What's up with that.

 

[infernovia]

Squirtle is a freakin turtle. What were you expecting?

I like how bullet seed can combo more than one person at the same time.

IMO, if a person tries to run away to get the 2:00 mins thing, he will have a pretty easy time against squirtle.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

Charizard U-Air Infinite

Charizard U-Air Infinite

Like the name says. I was fooling around chaining u-airs without touching the ground when i came upon this. Charizard normally has 3 jumps, but i managed to get about 8 u-airs without touching the ground.

This has the same properties as Bowser's and Kirby's infinite. It needs a proper title since it seems to not be limited to one character. I'm sure there are many characters that have something similar. The main difference is that this is actually useful (Or rather i'm sure a good use can be found for it as Charizards U-Air is a very good move) unlike the other two. The timing is insanely hard though.

1) Full jump the first u-air. You have to u-air before he flaps his wings, weird IASI properties apparently, so really fast.
2) His neck is straight from the u-air, as soon as it un-straightens, perform another u-air, like a milimeter above the ground, and continue doing so. If you managed to do this more than 3 times before touching the ground you did it.

I saved the replay of me doing it, but don't have something to upload it at the moment. But i'm sure you guys can try it yourselves.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWMyvVaAWZU

 

[iNiGhTmAr3]

Charizard U-Air Infinite

Like the name says. I was fooling around chaining u-airs without touching the ground when i came upon this. Charizard normally has 3 jumps, but i managed to get about 8 u-airs without touching the ground.

This has the same properties as Bowser's and Kirby's infinite. It needs a proper title since it seems to not be limited to one character. I'm sure there are many characters that have something similar. The main difference is that this is actually useful (Or rather i'm sure a good use can be found for it as Charizards U-Air is a very good move) unlike the other two. The timing is insanely hard though.

1) Full jump the first u-air. You have to u-air before he flaps his wings, weird IASI properties apparently, so really fast.
2) His neck is straight from the u-air, as soon as it un-straightens, perform another u-air, like a milimeter above the ground, and continue doing so. If you managed to do this more than 3 times before touching the ground you did it.

I saved the replay of me doing it, but don't have something to upload it at the moment. But i'm sure you guys can try it yourselves.

hmmm doesn't sound too complicated...

I'll try it later

 

[HK-50]

Does stamina reset when you die?

 

[Knyaguy]

I play a pretty good pokemon trainer...un til Ivysaur comes out. I can never time his spores and forget that his up-b us almost useless when not reaching for a ledge.

 

[infernovia]

Card/any other mains out there, have you had trouble OOS grab/attack charizard's rock smash/slide? Because of the huge lag time, it seems like the opponent can try to perfect shield it as the system seems lenient.

 

[DoH]

nair to bullet seed is my new favorite combo. even more so than downsmash to downsmash in melee. so delicious.

 

[FS Fantom]

Fooled around with this a little yesterday and couldn't get it to work.
Is it like Bowser's where you would do the uair and immediately jump (for the 'extra' ones), because it doesn't specifically say that. Just want to be sure I'm doing it correctly.

Charizard U-Air Infinite

Like the name says. I was fooling around chaining u-airs without touching the ground when i came upon this. Charizard normally has 3 jumps, but i managed to get about 8 u-airs without touching the ground.

This has the same properties as Bowser's and Kirby's infinite. It needs a proper title since it seems to not be limited to one character. I'm sure there are many characters that have something similar. The main difference is that this is actually useful (Or rather i'm sure a good use can be found for it as Charizards U-Air is a very good move) unlike the other two. The timing is insanely hard though.

1) Full jump the first u-air. You have to u-air before he flaps his wings, weird IASI properties apparently, so really fast.
2) His neck is straight from the u-air, as soon as it un-straightens, perform another u-air, like a milimeter above the ground, and continue doing so. If you managed to do this more than 3 times before touching the ground you did it.

I saved the replay of me doing it, but don't have something to upload it at the moment. But i'm sure you guys can try it yourselves.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

I'm going to borrow my friends webcam and get a video of it up tonight. Sorry for the bad description lol, that's as accurate as i can explain it.

 

[Card]

Card/any other mains out there, have you had trouble OOS grab/attack charizard's rock smash/slide? Because of the huge lag time, it seems like the opponent can try to perfect shield it as the system seems lenient.

Euh... I don't really understand what you are asking.

Do I have trouble doing OOS Grab, OOS Rock Smash? and what's a Slide?

I don't quite get it... but I don't have any problems Shield Grabbing with zard, OOS Rock Smash is pretty much impossible to land unless your opponent is a moron. Opt for the simpler Flamethrower, because even if they shield it they'll take some damage cause they'll drop their shield to escape.

I play a pretty good pokemon trainer...un til Ivysaur comes out. I can never time his spores and forget that his up-b us almost useless when not reaching for a ledge.

On the contrary, I've gotten many kills using Ivysaur's sweetspotted tether attack. There are many situations where your opponent is diagonally infront of you, these are the best situations to use Ivy's Up+B. There are also some combos which you can bait out of your opponent, such as D-Throw to Up+B. If the tip of the vine smacks them (and you hear that electrical shock sound-effect) you know you've sweetspotted, and it kills most characters at the 110% area.

nair to bullet seed is my new favorite combo. even more so than downsmash to downsmash in melee. so delicious.

my favorite is ANYTHING into Bullet Seed

OOS to Bullet Seed..
B-Air to Bullet Seed...
Walk to Bullet Seed...

I'm going to borrow my friends webcam and get a video of it up tonight. Sorry for the bad description lol, that's as accurate as i can explain it.

Yea.. I also tried it out, and I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

You say it's infinite but you've only done it 8 times
Basically from your explanation all you say is that you do 3 U-Air's before touching the ground... that's it.

:embarrass

 

[Elliot Gale]

Finally got to play today, and my god do I love PT. No doubt reading this over helped.

I found that Ivysaur's Nair is fantastic, or perhaps that was just my opponent sucking. I won all our matches, and he's the one who's been playing it since release. lol

 

[Knyaguy]

On the contrary, I've gotten many kills using Ivysaur's sweetspotted tether attack. There are many situations where your opponent is diagonally infront of you, these are the best situations to use Ivy's Up+B. There are also some combos which you can bait out of your opponent, such as D-Throw to Up+B. If the tip of the vine smacks them (and you hear that electrical shock sound-effect) you know you've sweetspotted, and it kills most characters at the 110% area.

Wow thanks for the info Card! :bigthumbu

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

I can do as many U-Air's as i want without touching the floor... but because it's hard to time i managed to do 8 in a row tops...

Sendspace download: http://www.sendspace.com/file/zdjy8m
Youtube vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWMyvVaAWZU

 

[xwingwarrior]

Thank you so much for the time you spent on this.

 

[Card]

I can do as many U-Air's as i want without touching the floor... but because it's hard to time i managed to do 8 in a row tops...

Sendspace download: http://www.sendspace.com/file/zdjy8m
Youtube vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWMyvVaAWZU

Ok... I managed to do it while in the practice area of a Wifi game.

I tried many times afterwards but couldn't do it as many times as earlier. I know exactly what you are talking about though, and I would like to add on that it's possble to actually MOVE Horizontally and do F-Air's and B-Air's while doing this "glitch" (I guess that would be the term?)

It seems incredibly useful tactic, nice find. But I won't document it in the guide until I've done thorough testing and established exactly what it can and can't do. If anyone else would like to help me out, that would be great.

Basically it's possible for Charizard to bounce infinitely without ever having "landing lag" animation. He can just spring up and down, while moving horizontally and spamming B-Air's.

Seems VERY important to Charizards metagame now that I think about it.....

 

[YSM]

One thing I've noticed while using Charizard is that his Down Throw can sometimes be a chain-grab when the opponent is at low health. It's not as hard to avoid as Dedede's, but those who don't know how to properly DI will still get caught in it.

 

[EVE]

Idk if anyone has brought this up yet but I just figured out a controller setup that messes up Hyrdroplaning and may be preventing somebody from effectively using it without them knowing it.

The first time I tried it I got it down easily, but after that I couldn't get it. The reason why is because I hadn't used my name the first time, so I was playing by the default controls...

The point is, if you had "Tap Jump" (which is the ability to jump with the control stick by pressing up) turned off, Squirtle won't go farther than his usual foxtrot with his usmash.

It was bugging me and I finally fixed the problem, so I just though I'd share it here in case anyone else has the same problem. I think having Tap Jump on is a fair trade for Hydroplaning anyway lol...

 

[TechnoMonster]

Couple of things

1) Ivysaur does have throw combos at low %. Here's the ones I use:
Upthrow to Bullet Seed, combos on most characters without DI 0-15%, and is difficult to escape even with an air dodge or jump because of the duration and range of the attack.
Downthrow to Bullet Seed with DI towards you can be very effective.
Downthrow to Vine Whip combos against average weight characters until about 18%, 12% on Jiggly, up to 31% on bowser. At 0-8ish it generally won't combo into the sweetspot, and won't register in training mode. Does 23 max damage, and you can follow up with SH or FH Razor Leaf if you like.

Since Ivy is probably your best damage builder, it's good to know how to get a start with a grab.

2) If your opponent is directly behind you when you F-smash with Ivy, you'll hit him upwards and slightly behind you with medium knock back. No real uses but good to know, opp has to be right on top of you for this to work.

3) Up-throw is also an effective KO with Charizard. It'll get Bowser at 179 on FD, and Jiggly at 130, to give you an idea, and is almost always better than a dthrow if you're not right by near the edge.

4) You can effectively ledge-stall with Charizard using his Up-B, since it out-prioritizes everything and god, and if they hog you in between you'll just fly past them.

 

[GreenMarth]

for your ivysaur section... well see

Ivysaurs foward tilt: SEVEN hits in total each doing two damage. Max is 14 for the whole thing. NOT BAD =)

^.^ hope i helped

EDIT:oh and EXCELLENT GUIDE! very well done =D

 

[Zek]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned this yet, but Charizard's Glide Attack is a separate move that should also be listed in the guide.

 

[iNiGhTmAr3]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned this yet, but Charizard's Glide Attack is a separate move that should also be listed in the guide.

Yeah...that should be added in there.

Not really that useful against a skilled player though lol.

 

[mikee8728]

nice guide!!!!!!!!

 

[khsrio621]

Ivysaur thing

Anyone else notice that Ivysaur's dash attack hits people hanging on the edge?