Pokemon Trainer: an In-Depth Analysis & Guide

[F@lc0-san]

I have played brawl and mostly played as PT.

Seriously, maining 1 Pokemon just isnt cool, having 3 COMPLETLEY DIFFERENT characters on hand is just way too awesome.

Having access to 3 characters at all time to suit the situation is just godly imo.

Definatly maning him....


AND Wolf

And Card, awesome thread, this will be most usefull.

 

[Seison]

Props, Card. This is an excellent source of PT info. I didn't think I could get any more excited to use him, but I stand corrected.

Now, I'd be willing to bet that, as a pokemon fan, you're probably a tad biased like I am, but you definitely make PT sound incredible.

Can't wait for brawl. SRSLY. 26 days...

 

[Card]

Props, Card. This is an excellent source of PT info. I didn't think I could get any more excited to use him, but I stand corrected.

Now, I'd be willing to bet that, as a pokemon fan, you're probably a tad biased like I am, but you definitely make PT sound incredible.

Can't wait for brawl. SRSLY. 26 days...

I only speak the truth

Then again... in almost every guide about a character on the Melee forums, they make the character seem to be simply outstanding. (Even Pichu!) But in all honesty, I truly believe with what I said in my original Guide. I think P. Trainer is going to be in the caliber of high-tier. He's going to start off fairly high-mid tier, and then will rise up the more we learn to play him. I don't think he'll be the Fox/Falco of Brawl, but I think he has the potential to at least reach the top 7-8 status. I underline potential because really that is what P. Trainer has going for him right now.

 

[metroid1117]

I wish I had Brawl; PT is one of the characters I want to try out first .

 

[orintemple]

This guide is incredible. Very informative and not missing a thing, great job!

 

[null84]

Thank you for the post. Your post have just convinced me to main P. Trainer. Although I was going to main him, I had doubt on his potential.
I really appreciate your data and opinions.

This is one of the best guides I have read, and the only suggest is includes more pictures and videos.

 

[Blue X]

Thanks for clearing up the whole stamina thing. :3 PT looks like he's going to be an awesome character. :D

 

[Helios42]

Wow, good work.

I have a combo that might work. After bullet seeding, would it be possible to ^A or ^aerial. That would add a strong finish after doing tons of damage.

 

[Scicky]

Neat little video I found that might be interesting for anyone planning to main PT

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTP6-4x8msE

 

[Fawriel]

Whew. I have to say, thank you very much for this thread. It's really, really awesome. And... stuff.
I really can't do much besides expressing my gratitude. =<

I also like how you took into account that Ivysaur is apparently female, although you slipped up once(?) in the up-tilt description.

 

[Helios42]

I also like how you took into account that Ivysaur is apparently female, although you slipped up once(?) in the up-tilt description.

Whoa, wait... Who said Ivysaur is female. It can be either. In the game, their aren't ANY distinguishing marks between male and female (for ivysaur). Even though I like to see the ivysaur as female, because I have a trained female one, I still think the option should remain open. In fact, the only pokemon in brawl that we know the gender of is Pikachu (becuase of the tail). All the others, including Jigglypuff can be eilther. It's compleate opinion.

 

[pictish freak]

Whoa, wait... Who said Ivysaur is female. It can be either. In the game, their aren't ANY distinguishing marks between male and female./QUOTE]

In diamond and pearl, male and female pokemon have very slightly different features. Except wobbuffet, who has obviously different features (the female wears lipstick). I'd guess that the voice actor makes ivysaur sound female, and thus the assumption.

Even though I like to see the ivysaur as female, because I have a trained female one, I still think the option should remain open.

The interesting thing is, if he'd referred to all three as male, you would not have felt you had to make the point that it's up to people to decide. One was female, and you feel compelled to remind people. Not saying anything, just it's interesting the way we think about this kinda thing.

 

[Fawriel]

Actually, I remember that there was one source that claimed Ivysaur was female... one of those guides inside that one magazine, I think... of course, citing a foggy memory as a source isn't exactly scientific, but I'm quite sure that both the OP and I got it from there, and I see no reason why that magazine would misinform us about such a detail.

 

[Card]

Actually, I remember that there was one source that claimed Ivysaur was female... one of those guides inside that one magazine, I think... of course, citing a foggy memory as a source isn't exactly scientific, but I'm quite sure that both the OP and I got it from there, and I see no reason why that magazine would misinform us about such a detail.

*nod nod*

I think it was originally said in Famitsu that Squirtle/Charizard were Male, and Ivysaur was Female. Do they have proof? No clue. Is it credible? probably not. But after playing with P. Trainer as much as I have, I just FEEL like Ivysaur is a female. I guess it's just because of the voice with the "Sou!" and different cries. Just seems female...

Anyways. I've gotten a TON of P. Trainer playtime now. Expect a huge update on my guide with tons of new impressions and sections!

(btw... is there a way I can get this Stickied? or does it just happen if a mod stumbles upon it? )

 

[Robling]

Update on guide?! Sweet! When do you think that will happen?

Also, does Charizard's flamethrower diminish like Bowser's fire breathing?

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

Someone will have to make a mod aware of this, but it's so well done i don't see them hesitating on a sticky.

 

[Helios42]

Whoa, wait... Who said Ivysaur is female. It can be either. In the game, their aren't ANY distinguishing marks between male and female./QUOTE]

In diamond and pearl, male and female pokemon have very slightly different features. Except wobbuffet, who has obviously different features (the female wears lipstick). I'd guess that the voice actor makes ivysaur sound female, and thus the assumption.



The interesting thing is, if he'd referred to all three as male, you would not have felt you had to make the point that it's up to people to decide. One was female, and you feel compelled to remind people. Not saying anything, just it's interesting the way we think about this kinda thing.

Ok, first of, I'm just discussing, I am NOT trying to put anyone down, especially you, card. Next, only a scarce few have differences in d/p, ivysaur is not one of them I know for a fact (although venasaur does). Next, really, no offense card, but, I'm fine if you pick a gender, just STICK WITH IT. I swear, you keep swiching between his and her, and, well, IVYSAUR IS NOT GENDER CONFUSED (lol). Another thing, just because a magazine calls it a she, doesn't mean anything. I'm sure many magazines have called jigglypuff a she, but, it trully can be either. Finally, the point that it sounds female can be used. However, I urge that people take into consideration that, what is feminine for a human, doesn't always apply to pokemon. Just look at jigglypuff, I'm sure their males think that being pink is in no way feminine. Also, it should be noted that ivysaur's gender ratio is 87.5% chance of being male, 12.5% chance of being female. That's just a fact to show, it can be either.

I just wanted to point all that out. I really do think that it could be either. Great debate, by the way. Back to pt, I can't wait to see the new guide. Card, you make reading raw data fun, lol.

 

[Helios42]

U-Smash – 1-hit – 17% (when fatigued 12%)
Ouch! Ivysaur lets out a cry as he shoots a huge poison cloud from her bulb.

I found the quote I was looking for. This show the point above, STICK TO A GENDER. HE shoots a huge poisen cloud from HER bulb, lol, in the same sentence too. Again no offense, that's the only thing I don't like about it. Sry for being so technical, agian, this is an excelent guide.

 

[DoH]

he left out an s.

don't make a big deal about it.

 

[-DemowiI-]

..........lol

 

[Helios42]

Just so you know, this isn't the only time genders are swiched.

But that isn't the main point of my post. I was wondering if there are any combos to force the opponent into bullet seed.

 

[Card]

I found the quote I was looking for. This show the point above, STICK TO A GENDER. HE shoots a huge poisen cloud from HER bulb, lol, in the same sentence too. Again no offense, that's the only thing I don't like about it. Sry for being so technical, agian, this is an excelent guide.

Alright! Ivysaur has spent some time finding out just what Pokemon she is, and now she is officially a FEMALE. No longer gender confused! (I think... I got them all... If I didn't feel free to point them out)

Don't worry dude, you aren't being picky. It probably bothered me more than it bothered you lol.

Anyways, expect a guide update by Monday. I've got a lot of things to say.

 

[Knyaguy]

Does it matter what gender Ivysaur is?

 

[jellis186]

Kind of a random question, but can we get images of all the pokemon when they are fatigued?

 

[Serpit]

Great topic. Excuse me if this has been mentioned, but I noticed some stuff about PT's Super Armor today...

-Charizard's Up B has Super Armor somewhere during the attack
-Squirtle's F-Smash has Super Armor somewhere during the attack

Sorry if this is already known, but especially Squirtle struck me as odd, but I'm sure it exists.

 

[Takumaru]

Gender confusion... oh god this makes me think of way way back in the day. Around 2004-ish.

Anyway, just because card refers to one of the pokemon by a particular gender because they obviously sound male/female does not mean that pokemon is male/female. Even though he's just making a reasonable assumption based on voice acting that would cause one to believe that, oh let's say fushibishou, is female.

Sorry card, but because you jumped to an impossible conclusion with a reasonable basis and then accidently contradicted yourself once everyone has lost respect for you. Too bad this information is useful. I had almost thought that this could have been a helpful topic but I suppose I was sorely mistaken. But no, instead of thanking you for compiling a lot of information in a nice and neat topic I'm just going to get hung up on one error. Way to let us all down.

EDIT: Serpit, no that you bring it up I do recall squirtle's F-smash having some super armor frames from both videos and experience. It's either super armor frames or a deceptive hitbox. Thank you for pointing that out/reminding us of something we all probably would have over-looked. I keep forgetting about that whole super armor thing.

 

[kid _icarus]

not really. if it makes you feel more comfortable when youre playing with a male orfemale then just pretend that they are. it makes NO difference to what gender they are. please people lets argue about the imporant stuff

 

[Silver Flame]

Congratulations. I must say that you have done a very good job with this thread. This is a thread that has been missing for P.T. and many other characters. IDK, maybe I just thought that every char thread would have an analysis and guide as well done as the Lucario thread, but I had been very disapointed. I am very happy to see such a great guide in the P.T. Thread.

 

[Helios42]

*sigh*
I am not hung up on this one issue. Anyone who THOUROGHLY read ANY of my posts knows that I made sure to tell card what an awsome guide this is.

Also, for the 'let's argue about the importiant stuff' I don't see you MAKING ANY SUGGESTIONS. I'm fine talking about anything pt related. If you didn't notice, there were no attempts at a new topic, other then complamenting card when we were settling the gender confusion. I also think that the gender is actually importiant. Think about it like this. Your point that you could just go with either gender wouldn't have worked if I HADN'T OPPENED UP THE OPTION BY MAKING PEOPLE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT GENDER IS NOT PRE-DETERMINED.

Thank you very much card for writing this. Also, thanks for changing the whole gender swiching thing. You missed one in line 4 of initiall impressions, had a typo (hes instead of her) in line 1 of overall utility. Those are the two I could find. I look forward to the guide update.

 

[Card]

Now now.. no fighting

Thanks for pointing out another Gender error Helios, I fixed it right away. I just want to let everyone know I've added new sections to the guide (2.1 and 2.2) discussing my concerns with Pokemon Change, and Diminishing Returns. I'll be doing an updated moveset analysis by tomorrow as well.

 

[Takumaru]

Sorry helios I was just being eh... mean for lack of a better word. I appologize on my behalf. =/

The new sections are great, card. I'm now wondering how a similar idea might apply to zelda/sheik as a self-proclaimed sheik main in brawl.

 

[Fawriel]

Ah, yeah. I forgot to mention that I'm glad to read that someone else recognized what an amazing design idea the Pokemon Trainer is, since he's about the closest one can get to emulating the Pokemon gameplay in a Smash environment.

I do also realize that it's valuable to main the character in his, or rather, their entirety. The one thing that worries me, though, is that you're often forced to change, in a fixed order. You can choose a Pokemon to adapt to a certain situation, but unless your opponent just decides to stay far away from you for a while, you can't just quickly switch in the middle of the battle. And the fixed order means that you might have to deal with the one Pokemon for a while that is the exact opposite of what you need... and so on.

 

[Robling]

OK, two question.
1) Squirtle's water gun: If you charge it up, switch to Ivysaur, switch to Charizard, switch to Squirtle, is water gun still charged? Probably unimportant, but I'm curious.
2) Does Charizard's flamethrower diminish like Bowser's flame breath in Melee? I asked this one earlier, but I don't think I ever got an answer...

Thank you!

 

[Helios42]

Thanks card, the new sections are great, look forward to the new ones. I completly agree, pt has so much more potential then any 1 of his pokemon. But, I have to say, some people won't ever get over the fact that...
1) They think one of the pokemon is better
2) They think one of the pokemon sucks
3) They just think on is cooler
As a future pt mainer, I think they all have great potential, especially when combined.

Sorry if I sounded mad/argumentative, I was sick (and that always puts me in a bad mood), and also, I had been worrying whether I was making too big of a deal about it, so those posts sort of hit a nerve. I just feel that gender should be open, and I was defending my point, again, sorry about the tone. And, Takumaru, it's not really your fault, so, no worries.
(it was more Kid Icarus that ticked me off, I hate people who complain w/out offering suggestions).

I can't wait to main pt in brawl, he sounds awsome. Oh, another think I like about the guide is that it was optimistic, but not overly. Most people have been complaining about how this or that pokemon sucks (I've heard it for all three). You just stated the facts, and I really liked that.

P.S. Pt actually has 42 different moves, counting jabs (as one per pokemon) and dash attacks. I personally see those as moves

 

[Takumaru]

2) Does Charizard's flamethrower diminish like Bowser's flame breath in Melee? I asked this one earlier, but I don't think I ever got an answer...

Thank you!

Yeah, flamethrower does diminish.

 

[Elliot Gale]

I like how it's sort of set up sort of like a Smogon Rate My Team thread. =P

That aside, I'd like to see a lot more about their ledge game. What they can do coming onto the stage and going off of it. Edgeguards and anti-edgeguards to put it plainly.

 

[Card]

OK, two question.
1) Squirtle's water gun: If you charge it up, switch to Ivysaur, switch to Charizard, switch to Squirtle, is water gun still charged? Probably unimportant, but I'm curious.
2) Does Charizard's flamethrower diminish like Bowser's flame breath in Melee? I asked this one earlier, but I don't think I ever got an answer...

Thank you!

(Added to the guide)
1)

Squirtle's water gun: If you charge it up, switch to Ivysaur, switch to Charizard, switch to Squirtle, is water gun still charged?
Strangely... No. Squirtle will lose his Water-Gun charge. Not really a huge deal, but whatever.

2) Charizard's flamethrower does diminish like Bowsers. Except like I said it's a more focused stream than a stream with a larger radius like Bowsers.

--------------------------


Alright everyone. I've added additional moveset explanations and properties to the following moves;

Squirtle
Jab
Dash Attack
F-Tilt
U-Tilt
D-Tilt
F-Smash
U-Air
D-Air
Side+B
Up+B
Throw Descriptions

Ivysaur
Jab
F-Tilt
U-Tilt
F-Smash
Side+B

Charizard
F-Tilt
D-Tilt
U-Smash
F-Air
D-Air
B
Up+B
Throw Description


Go take a look at them!

 

[festizzio]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you can't switch pokemon during your invincibility frames on a new stock. So if you die as Squirtle and don't want to play as Ivysaur, you have to wait until you're vulnerable to switch to Charizard.

Also, Squirtle's turn-around animation (where you turn around after a dash) is really fast and good for mindgames and such. You don't trip, either.

Charizard can bthrow, fthrow, or I think dthrow to a dair off the stage on pretty much anyone if you do it fast enough, making for a really easy kill. It's not as hard to do if you try it all the time. And with Charizard's grab range it makes for some nasty gimps.

 

[Cebo]

Really nice informative guide card. I appreciate all the work you have put into it, especially the move sets. I can't wait for brawl's release, and look forward to using PT.

 

[Hmaal]

Because of you, a seemingly, judge a book by its cover, character is now made to look like a great character. Congratulations Job Well-Done.