Planking Info (G&W Added)

[kackamee]

LGLShould only apply to MK. It should really only be 20. MK doesn't need the ledge to get back on the stage.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

While something might be technically possible, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's "humanly possible". Quite often, it isn't humanly possible. Look at all of the frame data based "tool assisted" combos in various games, even as recently as SF4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC4qXsZs5cQ

No human can do that. It's technically possible in the game, based on the frame data, but impossible to pull off.




I don't see planking as much different, and no one should see it as any different unless we see a consistant number of MK's using this strategy and becoming invincible / winning tournaments because of it.

I would be interested to see more "pros" use this guide to hone their own planking skills. If it really is totally broken, we will see it in tournament-- we have yet to see it, however. If this guide is as definitively broken as is being suggested, it will obviously make every MK invincible. I find this to be highly unlikely though.

You can say that the frame data allows MK to avoid 100% of projectiles from characters like Snake / Pikachu, but I don't think it's realistic to say that is humanly possible over an 8 minute match. The projectiles have a lot of variables and can be changed in frequency as well as trajectory. Even if it's technically possible by the frames, I don't think anyone could avoid 100% of grenades / nikita / c4 / thunder jolt / etc. for 8 minutes, every match on a consistent basis.





This is a good read, though I still do not see it as definitive proof of brokenness, since it's just saying "it's technically possible to do this".

 

[CRASHiC]

Hold it now, the TACVs are requiring FAR greater percesion than anything discussed here, its full of 1 frame links and very, beyound human capable buffering. A video was already posted of a Bowser, who has a harder time and far less abusing power and options than Metaknight planking, consistently blocking every single one of Pikachu bolts. With the leniancy on frames that Metaknight has combined with Brawl's large buffer window (much larger than most fighting games) this is very easily done.

 

[Nanaki]

LGLShould only apply to MK. It should really only be 20. MK doesn't need the ledge to get back on the stage.

MK doesn't need 5 jumps or a 2 glides to get back either. Since we're playing the 'limit MK' game, maybe we should put a limit on his total 'air time' per match too? It's not fair that he can stay up there dair camping all day!

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as the suggestions we should limit MK to not being able to use his specials.

I will lol every time I hear someone from another community reading our rules and wonder why they see:

-Meta Knight's Infinite Dimensional Cape glitch is banned.
-Meta Knight may only grab the ledge 20 times per match, or he automatically forfeits that match.
-Meta Knight may not glide under the stage consecutively without landing on the stage in between.
-Meta Knight...

etc.

@MMM: You can buffer pretty much all of these actions with ease to occur on or near the earliest possible frame. You can also just glide to the other side to avoid the C4/Nikita/etc. Or just use your 5 jumps to chill for a bit.

The reason we haven't seen it in tournament is LGLs are pretty much universal now. Without them, I don't doubt we'd see some really long tournaments where half of the matches end in timeout.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

How is causing people to be DQed by accident a good thing and make the game better? DDD can abuse that ledge grab limit against anyone he can chain grab who doesn't have an amazing recovery game.

How is causing Falco, Diddy and Snake artificially boosted in their rankings b/c they have an amazing on stage game but lousy off stage game, but b/c of the LGL, characters like Gdubs are artificially hurt b/c they excel off stage and not totally on stage(although he isn't totally invincible like MK) fine?

Precisely why the LGL is an unfit means of dealing with this, imo. I would personally rather see MK banned than a ledge limit made standard, but am very anti-ban on both issues. Still, if it came down to it and I had to choose, I would prefer MK to be banned over instituting any kind of LGL.



If MK was proven to be bannable--in practice, relating to a good theory--I could support it, if it was solid... I doubt that he will ever be proven correctly though. This is probably the best pro-ban post out there, but it still lacks proof beyond the theory.

If he's banned or the LGL is made standard without proper reasoning, it will seriously effect my desire to play this game / my respect for it, which would make me very sad

@MMM: You can buffer pretty much all of these actions with ease to occur on or near the earliest possible frame. You can also just glide to the other side to avoid the C4/Nikita/etc. Or just use your 5 jumps to chill for a bit.

The reason we haven't seen it in tournament is LGLs are pretty much universal now. Without them, I don't doubt we'd see some really long tournaments where half of the matches end in timeout.

I don't think the LGL is universal, though it is getting more popular. Even then, we didn't see an excess of planking winning tournaments even before the LGL was as popular as it is now. I can't think of a single major tournament that was ever won by planking, actually. Has there even ever been one?

 

[Asdioh]

You would have to be a ****** to just let him just hang on the ledge until he automatically falls...

Have you ever even played a Meta Knight?

hint: going offstage is not something you want to do, unless you're playing, that's right, Meta Knight.


You don't see people planking much because it is "extremely gay"

Put a huge sum of money on the line and I guarantee we will, and have, seen it, at least to an extent.

People need to stop being so opposed to banning Metaknight and just look at what he is capable of doing as a whole character. Even if you do manage to totally take away "planking" (and nobody has come up with a good way to do this yet) you need to step back and look at the character as a whole.

Stealing someone's avatar:

that said, I'd still love to see the planking frame data for other characters, as a final testament to how much MK likes to break the mechanics of the game.

 

[DMG]

Actually MMM almost everything listed is very viable under the human realm. Honestly, the defender is the one who is hard pressed to punish MK if he is the one who is even slightly off.

"If MK is truly untouchable during planking, then it is considered stalling, which is already banned. If MK is not truly untouchable during planking and does not require the player to put himself in an extremely dangerous position (ie: going under the stage to stop a wall-bombing Peach), then it is not a problem and does not need to be banned. The amount of people, even among those "respected in the community", who don't realize this is ********."

Masky, I wish it was this simple. The problem is defining planking. Would you define it as Uairing from the edge, then using a second Uair in the same manner, then grabbing the edge? If so, now whenever they attempt these actions while maybe not being invincible or being more "beatable", then technically you are DQing them for using a good strategy, and not for stalling.

No matter what your definition of planking is, you either branch off into being too broad and too subjective (allowed to go under the stage only 1 time in a minute/not allowed to cross the halfway point under the stage and turn around to go to the same edge/You can only Uair 1 time before grabbing the edge again, subsequent Uairs getting you DQ'd, etc), or your rule is too narrow, weak, hard to regulate, or a combination of those (as well as still potentially having the subjectivity issue).

 

[Asdioh]

Actually MMM almost everything listed is very viable under the human realm. Honestly, the defender is the one who is hard pressed to punish MK if he is the one who is even slightly off.

pwnedzxzzxxzsx

especially considering MK is hard to hit even IF he doesn't refresh invincibility frame-perfectly. He can switch it up while the other player is forced to play a guessing game that puts them at an enormous risk while MK is relatively safe the whole time.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Actually MMM almost everything listed is very viable under the human realm. Honestly, the defender is the one who is hard pressed to punish MK if he is the one who is even slightly off.

Can we have fun happy discussion times again? I'm excited! :D :D :D Your original post was really well made overall btw, good work.


---


I'm not really arguing the difficulty of doing 2 up-airs before invincibility leaves you-- I'm arguing the practicality of doing it for 8 minutes against someone who is constantly changing the pattern of their projectiles / making them random.


They are doing something simple and unpredictable. It has a pattern but it can be changed / made random. MK is doing something semi difficult in terms of the moves, but it is dependent on near perfect reads / timing.

The longer you draw that out, the less likely this "perfect strategy" becomes plausible. At some point, the MK is going to misread. It's human nature.

One grenade is what, 12-18% damage depending on stale moves? Snake is obviously the best example for my case because of that, but I think it can apply to several characters.



If the MK has a HUGE lead, my point won't be as valid, but he'd have to play onstage to get that lead, so back to square one.

 

[kackamee]

MK doesn't need 5 jumps or a 2 glides to get back either. Since we're playing the 'limit MK' game, maybe we should put a limit on his total 'air time' per match too? It's not fair that he can stay up there dair camping all day!

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as the suggestions we should limit MK to not being able to use his specials.

I will lol every time I hear someone from another community reading our rules and wonder why they see:

-Meta Knight's Infinite Dimensional Cape glitch is banned.
-Meta Knight may only grab the ledge 20 times per match, or he automatically forfeits that match.
-Meta Knight may not glide under the stage consecutively without landing on the stage in between.
-Meta Knight...

etc.

@MMM: You can buffer pretty much all of these actions with ease to occur on or near the earliest possible frame. You can also just glide to the other side to avoid the C4/Nikita/etc. Or just use your 5 jumps to chill for a bit.

The reason we haven't seen it in tournament is LGLs are pretty much universal now. Without them, I don't doubt we'd see some really long tournaments where half of the matches end in timeout.

The limit MK game is the only way to keep everything in check. It's how our government functions. Every branch is limited. O.o

If someone wonders why they see all those rules against Metaknight, it will be easy to explain that the community didn't want to ban him, so they made him weaker instead.
And Dair camping isn't nearly as hard to beat and Planking.

Suggestions that I think are good (some more then others):

-MK is limited to 20 ledge grabs
-MK can not go under the stage more then twice in a row, to reset the counter he must land a hit on the opponent.

Those 2 rules would eliminate his planking game and he'd just be MK. Not gay MK, not Planking MK. He'd still be good, and still be the best, no doubt, but he wouldn't be nearly as gay to the point where he could time you out every match by avoiding you.

You could even limit the amount of times your allowed to play MK in a set.
There are so many things we could do besides banning MK all together to expiriment with to see which one works best for the community as a whole, everyone just needs to work together alittle more.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Suggestions that I think are good (some more then others):

-MK is limited to 20 ledge grabs
-MK can not go under the stage more then twice in a row, to reset the counter he must land a hit on the opponent.

Those 2 rules would eliminate his planking game and he'd just be MK. Not gay MK, not Planking MK. He'd still be good, and still be the best, no doubt, but he wouldn't be nearly as gay to the point where he could time you out every match by avoiding you.

You could even limit the amount of times your allowed to play MK in a set.
There are so many things we could do besides banning MK all together to expiriment with to see which one works best for the community as a whole, everyone just needs to work together alittle more.

If that plus limiting the amount of times you could use MK in a set was truly proven as necessary and only applicable to MK, then that character should be banned. There's no way around that, and I'm anti-ban.

 

[Nanaki]

I don't think the LGL is universal, though it is getting more popular. Even then, we didn't see an excess of planking winning tournaments even before the LGL was as popular as it is now. I can't think of a single major tournament that was ever won by planking, actually. Has there even ever been one?

Dunno. I doubt people realized exactly how TRULY broken MK's planking was before they looked real hard at the frame data, though.

As Asdioh said, people aren't willing to play that excessively lamely to win $100. I agree with you though, it was never really proven broken in practice, just annoying.

Edit:

The limit MK game is the only way to keep everything in check. It's how our government functions. Every branch is limited. O.o

If someone wonders why they see all those rules against Metaknight, it will be easy to explain that the community didn't want to ban him, so they made him weaker instead.
And Dair camping isn't nearly as hard to beat and Planking.

Suggestions that I think are good (some more then others):

-MK is limited to 20 ledge grabs
-MK can not go under the stage more then twice in a row, to reset the counter he must land a hit on the opponent.

Those 2 rules would eliminate his planking game and he'd just be MK. Not gay MK, not Planking MK. He'd still be good, and still be the best, no doubt, but he wouldn't be nearly as gay to the point where he could time you out every match by avoiding you.

You could even limit the amount of times your allowed to play MK in a set.
There are so many things we could do besides banning MK all together to expiriment with to see which one works best for the community as a whole, everyone just needs to work together alittle more.

You're entering pretty uncharted territory for a video game there. Why are we putting several rules in place specifically to limit MK (for techniques that haven't really been put to the test in tournament fully), when we could put in 50 other rules to bring the bottom tier up to par? We could have the perfectly balanced game!

-No jumping into Ness' PKT to gimp him.
-You must approach Zelda
-Ganondorf is allowed 2 free Warlock Punches every match when he calls 'Punch Time!'

etc.

Putting a million rules in place to bring a character to the level we want him is unacceptable, and uncompetitive. If he's broken, he's broken, and he should be banned.

 

[Steeler]

finally. well done, DMG.

 

[kackamee]

Dunno. I doubt people realized exactly how TRULY broken MK's planking was before they looked real hard at the frame data, though.

As Asdioh said, people aren't willing to play that excessively lamely to win $100. I agree with you though, it was never really proven broken in practice, just annoying.

Edit:



You're entering pretty uncharted territory for a video game there. Why are we putting several rules in place specifically to limit MK (for techniques that haven't really been put to the test in tournament fully), when we could put in 50 other rules to bring the bottom tier up to par? We could have the perfectly balanced game!

-No jumping into Ness' PKT to gimp him.
-You must approach Zelda
-Ganondorf is allowed 2 free Warlock Punches every match when he calls 'Punch Time!'

etc.

Putting a million rules in place to bring a character to the level we want him is unacceptable, and uncompetitive. If he's broken, he's broken, and he should be banned.

O.o I'm gonna have to disagree with that way of thinking. Maybe we don't HAVE to ban MK. If we don't try new things to see what works, nothing would ever get accomplished. The ledge limit hasn't exactly made a notable difference so why not tweak it alittle bit?
Evidentally alot of people don't want him banned for one reason or another, but most of them do admit that something should be done. And you gotta start somewhere right?

If that plus limiting the amount of times you could use MK in a set was truly proven as necessary and only applicable to MK, then that character should be banned. There's no way around that, and I'm anti-ban.

Yeah, that's why I was skeptical to bring that up. But I do tink it could work. Per say, if you could have a deck full of Exodia cards (or does he suck now...I dunno I don't pay attention to Yu-Gi-Oh anymore....it's just an example) Why wouldn't you?? So the rules limited the amount of so many cards you could have in your deck.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

-Ganondorf is allowed 2 free Warlock Punches every match when he calls 'Punch Time!'

This SHOULD be tournaments tandard. The fact that it isn't is highly disappointing.

O.o I'm gonna have to disagree with that way of thinking. Maybe we don't HAVE to ban MK. If we don't try new things to see what works, nothing would ever get accomplished. The ledge limit hasn't exactly made a notable difference so why not tweak it alittle bit?
Evidentally alot of people don't want him banned for one reason or another, but most of them do admit that something should be done. And you gotta start somewhere right?

Maybe we don't HAVE to leave ganon as a completely and utterly unviable character. If we don't try new things to see what works, nothing would ever get accomplished. Punch Time hasn't exactly made a notable difference in theory so why not tweak it a little bit?

Yeah, that's why I was skeptical to bring that up. But I do tink it could work. Per say, if you could have a deck full of Exodia cards (or does he suck now...I dunno I don't pay attention to Yu-Gi-Oh anymore....it's just an example) Why wouldn't you?? So the rules limited the amount of so many cards you could have in your deck.

I think an unlimited exodia deck (that is, an exodia deck where the only change from the Ban list would be the Exodia parts being unlimited) would still fail pretty hard to blackwing.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Punch Time sounds brilliant. I must try this.

 

[Nanaki]

I think credit for 'Punch Time!' goes to OS, but I'm not sure where exactly it came from. I know I didn't think of it.

 

[Asdioh]

Maybe we don't HAVE to leave ganon as a completely and utterly unviable character. If we don't try new things to see what works, nothing would ever get accomplished. Punch Time hasn't exactly made a notable difference in theory so why not tweak it a little bit?

hahaha.

Anyway, it amazes me the extent people will go to to keep MK in the game.


Tell me this: who will be the best character in the game if MK is banned?

...personally, I don't even know who it would be. Snake and Diddy Kong are obvious contenders, but is Snake REALLY the best in the game without MK? We wouldn't know until we saw what the game is like without MK. Nobody seems willing to try that.

My point is that with MK is in the game, there is no doubt he is the best, and by a large margin, and the question of "what character can beat MK?" is asked over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Without MK, someone else may be the best, but as everyone knows, every character except for MK has clear weaknesses, both in matchups and as general character flaws. Snake can be gimped, can be comboed due to heavy weight and lack of gtfo moves, etc. Diddy Kong needs to rack up a lot of damage before his opponent is in kill % due to generally underwhelming KO moves, can be gimped, can have his bananas used against him, etc. Both of these characters have character flaws that can be exploited against them, and that is the way it should be in a competitive fighter. MK is just "if MK messes up hugely you might be able to hit him a couple times and then reset back to neutral where MK most likely has a large advantage"
"you can gimp MK offstage if he puts down his controller maybe"
etc.


I don't know where I was going with this, I'm ranting.

tl;dr: people are meatriding MK too much. This game was intentionally designed with anticompetitiveness in mind, the creator loves MK and intentionally made him 2gud, why are people unable to comprehend that a game like this might require the banning of that character?

/rantrant

 

[kackamee]

This SHOULD be tournaments tandard. The fact that it isn't is highly disappointing.



Maybe we don't HAVE to leave ganon as a completely and utterly unviable character. If we don't try new things to see what works, nothing would ever get accomplished. Punch Time hasn't exactly made a notable difference in theory so why not tweak it a little bit?




I think an unlimited exodia deck (that is, an exodia deck where the only change from the Ban list would be the Exodia parts being unlimited) would still fail pretty hard to blackwing.

...I just had a whole paragraph written, but then I accidentally deleted it.

TL;DR Everything we can discuss has already been talked about before. Yet we still have a problem in our community. Experiments are the first step, MK doesn't HAVE to be permenatley banned, we could try it, see the results, and take action from there.

 

[Nanaki]

...I just had a whole paragraph written, but then I accidentally deleted it.

TL;DR Everything we can discuss has already been talked about before. Yet we still have a problem in our community. Experiments are the first step, MK doesn't HAVE to be permenatley banned, we could try it, see the results, and take action from there.

BPC has already given you the reason against his anyway - MLG is picking this game up for the 2010 circuit, and we can't be dilly-dallying around rules about MK during the circuit. It has to be one way or the other.

Let's try to get the subject back on planking, if we can. I know I'm partly responsible for the derailment, but this isn't 'MK Discussion Thread #2'.

DMG, any write-up incoming about G&W's planking?

 

[HeroMystic]

...I just had a whole paragraph written, but then I accidentally deleted it.

TL;DR Everything we can discuss has already been talked about before. Yet we still have a problem in our community. Experiments are the first step, MK doesn't HAVE to be permenatley banned, we could try it, see the results, and take action from there.

This was going to be the case until the MLG Bomb.

So much is riding on that circuit that a decision needs to be made soon.

 

[kackamee]

BPC has already given you the reason against his anyway - MLG is picking this game up for the 2010 circuit, and we can't be dilly-dallying around rules about MK during the circuit. It has to be one way or the other.

Let's try to get the subject back on planking, if we can. I know I'm partly responsible for the derailment, but this isn't 'MK Discussion Thread #2'.

DMG, any write-up incoming about G&W's planking?

This was going to be the case until the MLG Bomb.

So much is riding on that circuit that a decision needs to be made soon.

Yeah, It'll all work out for the best I hope. Everyone's gonna start playing MK and planking though. I'd like to see the MLG Ruleset.

G'dorf's a pretty good planker O: Write about him.

 

[CaliburChamp]

G&W and Pit are better plankers because they cause more damage while planking.

1st: G&W
2nd: Pit
3rd: MK

 

[Overswarm]

I think credit for 'Punch Time!' goes to OS, but I'm not sure where exactly it came from. I know I didn't think of it.

Credit goes to Lord King Commander Supreme Joshu

 

[Steeler]

G&W and Pit are better plankers because they cause more damage while planking.

1st: G&W
2nd: Pit
3rd: MK

people plank to cause damage? lolwut? planking is for making yourself ridiculously difficult to even touch and running the timer out.

 

[Kitamerby]

G&W and Pit are better plankers because they cause more damage while planking.

1st: G&W
2nd: Pit
3rd: MK

lmao. It's posts like these that make me wish you could subscribe to people's posts.

 

[solecalibur]

G&W and Pit are better plankers because they cause more damage while planking.

1st: G&W
2nd: Pit
3rd: MK

I dont know the frame data but I have hit pit out of planking , MK I have yet to hit them out when they are doing it correctly, G&W planking I have yet to encounter


Also the main point of planking is to time your opponent out when your winning

 

[CRASHiC]

G&W and Pit are better plankers because they cause more damage while planking.

1st: G&W
2nd: Pit
3rd: MK

I'd trade more damage for being invincible any day.

 

[DMG]

G&W and Pit are better plankers because they cause more damage while planking.

1st: G&W
2nd: Pit
3rd: MK

*Signals Party Noise*

CONGRATULATIONS! YOU ARE THE 1ST LUCKY TROLL TO ENTER! YOU HAVE WON A FREE IPOD NANO! REDEEM NOW!

Lol I could write up a paragraph on why that was one of the dumbest posts I have seen in a long time, but you know what I am a nice guy. I shall spare you from my Wrath.


ALSO before this weekend, I should have G&W's planking data up.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

DMG, stop being nice.

Show him your Wrath.

 

[Sharky]

*Signals Party Noise*

CONGRATULATIONS! YOU ARE THE 1ST LUCKY TROLL TO ENTER! YOU HAVE WON A FREE IPOD NANO! REDEEM NOW!

combined with your sig this was perfect XD

 

[Nanaki]

*Data showing how broken MK's planking is*

*Start of evidence showing how not broken G&W's is*

*Calibur states G&W is the best planker*

*????????*

It's totally pointless to have him on ignore, whatever he posts gets quoted 10 times anyway.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

 

[Kitamerby]

*Signals Party Noise*

CONGRATULATIONS! YOU ARE THE 1ST LUCKY TROLL TO ENTER! YOU HAVE WON A FREE IPOD NANO! REDEEM NOW!

Lol I could write up a paragraph on why that was one of the dumbest posts I have seen in a long time, but you know what I am a nice guy. I shall spare you from my Wrath.


ALSO before this weekend, I should have G&W's planking data up.

You haven't been keeping up with CaliburChamp, have you?

 

[DMG]

I have. Unfortunately, he cannot win more than once on the same site. He would have to go elsewhere to redeem a prize. AiB he has already ransacked too.

Btw I don't have the exact numbers on me, but I am almost 100% positive that G&W loses invincibility before his first Nair is over lol. If that is the case, that would suck for G&W

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I'm not claiming this to be the smartest suggestion ever. Just for the record.

Regardless, what about an MK only rule which states that if a match times out, MK loses?

Yeah, there would be MK dittos, that that would be complicated still. But who else could get a lead on and plank out MK in an effort to abuse this rule? DMG is kinda hinting at how everyone else has holes in their planking techniques.

Anyways, this'd force MK to actually fight. If he times out by planking, he automatically loses.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm not claiming this to be the smartest suggestion ever. Just for the record.

Regardless, what about an MK only rule which states that if a match times out, MK loses?

Yeah, there would be MK dittos, that that would be complicated still. But who else could get a lead on and plank out MK in an effort to abuse this rule? DMG is kinda hinting at how everyone else has holes in their planking techniques.

Anyways, this'd force MK to actually fight. If he times out by planking, he automatically loses.

See punch time rule. We're making a rule to keep MK balanced; why not make similar rules for everyone else? You can't camp against Zelda, you can't hit link if he's offstage, sonic gets a free fsmash if you're on the ground in a linear path when he starts charging it, etc.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

See punch time rule. We're making a rule to keep MK balanced; why not make similar rules for everyone else? You can't camp against Zelda, you can't hit link if he's offstage, sonic gets a free fsmash if you're on the ground in a linear path when he starts charging it, etc.

I did see the punch time rule. It was hilarious :-D.

But I think that train of thought is kind of a slippery slope argument. I personally believe that this would be more related to an effort to remove game breaking aspects without removing a character, as opposed to balancing the character itself. MK will still be MK. It's not like he has to stop drop and roll every time he planks.

Pretty much, this is a suggested route should the community decide to enact rules without removing MK as a usable character.

-Tuen

 

[Veril]

This is brilliant. Good Job DMG!

I've got to get a good video of lightstep planking and the associated frame data to add to this already impressive thread. Its something I've been incredibly hesitant to post about, but w/e the time has clearly come ;p

 

[kackamee]

I'm not claiming this to be the smartest suggestion ever. Just for the record.

Regardless, what about an MK only rule which states that if a match times out, MK loses?

Yeah, there would be MK dittos, that that would be complicated still. But who else could get a lead on and plank out MK in an effort to abuse this rule? DMG is kinda hinting at how everyone else has holes in their planking techniques.

Anyways, this'd force MK to actually fight. If he times out by planking, he automatically loses.

Aside from what BPC is trying to say (Which those rules he's trying to bring up would be very hard to keep up with) It'd be a problem because then people would start running from MK instead of fighting hm. Next thing you know, Jiggs is the MK slayer.

 

[Kitamerby]

I'm not claiming this to be the smartest suggestion ever. Just for the record.

Regardless, what about an MK only rule which states that if a match times out, MK loses?

Yeah, there would be MK dittos, that that would be complicated still. But who else could get a lead on and plank out MK in an effort to abuse this rule? DMG is kinda hinting at how everyone else has holes in their planking techniques.

Anyways, this'd force MK to actually fight. If he times out by planking, he automatically loses.

I once thought this would be an interesting idea, but I've sorta changed my opinion after thinking about it more, as there is one really huge problem that stems from this rule idea.

The problem with is that it also means that nobody will ever approach MK again. By putting this rule into play, Meta Knight's defense game becomes completely and utterly impossible to implement because there is absolutely no incentive to ever consider approaching him if you are just going to win regardless as long as time runs out. While some may argue it forces Meta Knight to utilize his already incredible offensive game and his extreme resistances to stalling due to his stellar mobility, I don't believe this really is enough reasoning to offset the extreme amount of stupidity present in a match in which one opponent must never approach and essentially turns MK matches into a really, really stupid game of cat and mouse.

The idea is there, though and might work out however if tweaked a little bit, such as maybe if time runs out while MK is on the same stock and within 50% of his opponent, he'd lose, or possibly just same-stock so as to simply reduce the overall effectiveness of MK's camping and dissuade people from using it in many situations.

In all honesty, I'd much prefer a slew of surgical bans to limit a character rather than banning him outright.