Pika's worst move

[Paixy]

In yall's opinion, what's Pika's worst move?

I was thinking about this to myself and went with his jab...I guess the 'worst' move can be defined in several ways - some will argue that there isn't a worst move. It's difficult to decide for Pika since each has a specific use; jab sucks but it can quickly (hits on frame 2 and the next jab will start on frame 5) suprise your opponent whilst edgeguarding, for example.

discuss

 

[Pi]

side B lol
not sure how usefull it is for recovery but i can't imagine that it helps a **** ton

 

[tdk_Samurai]

worst move...um yea, kniht is prlly right, side b although I will explain how side b can be used, and jab

jab is amazing, it only does 1 percent, but its not a damage move, its more of a utility thing, and sometimes damage.

use 1 - psuedo infinite against certain walls. I love getting down in the middle of the mining platforms on rock phase on pokestadium and baiting people to come down there, people who don't know me will come down, and I will jab and jab them. you can jab them for as long as rock phase lasts. and you can do this on alot of walls, like there is a video of axe getting gg7 i think down there getting him to like 200 and then b throwing him not only off the stage, but past the wall of the level.

use 2 - jab reset, if someone falls and doesn't tech, you can jab reset them and force them to stand up, and in this animation you have time to get a free smash on them. but pika's jab reset doesn't work the same way as most I believe, like I hope n64 comes in here and explains it, cause it doesn't work in any case I don't believe

use 3 - team infinite, and this is actually an infinite, if you get in a 2v1 situation and your teamate gets a grab, you can jab as fast as you can and if your partner is grab attacking, you can go to like 999 if you want, although you'll have soar thumbs if you do

use 4 - saving teamates, this happens little for me, but if a falcon/whatever is falling towards the ledge and the opponent is ledgehogging, I will sometime just spam jab and either I'll hit my teamate allowing him to recover again, or that will happen along with me knocking the opponent off the stage cause they tried to get up at me or something

use 5 - pressure, like kinda pikas only shield pressure, idk, someone else should comment on shield pressure, cause I don't know about pikas shield pressure that much, but its sometimes usefull in teams either keeping opponents away from the ledge so your partner can recover, or away from your partner so they can edgegaurd

and of course there are a few more, but I can't think of any

side b use

1 - recovery, axe explained one time that if you press over b once you become a bodies length closer to the stage than you would have been if you didn't, but holding over b will not help any more. I've watched alot of chads older vids and he never holds over b, makes me wonder, did chad know that forever and not tell his pika pals? (glares at chad) nah, chad wouldn't do that ;-)

2 - tech chase? lol, apearently some pikas like to b throw and then side b a tech towards, idk, thats a little too silly IMO, but whatever, I'm not gonna judge

3 - punishing rests? super situational

4- edgegaurd, I wouldn't recommend it, but I guess if you wanna make a falcon look stupid charge over b, but f smash will always be better in any situation I can think of, but maybe a top pika will be like heres a link to a grand finals match where I needed to over b edgegaurd or I woulda ****ed up, and I'll be like, oh...I stand corrected.

edit: oh yea, jab edgegaurding as you mentioned, axe gets a jab edgegaurd in the axe effect and vman is like wtf and falls too low.

also, chad will say jab is not good enough because the lag after the jab I believe is what he said, and I kinda agree, cause sometimes I want to forward tilt right after my jab and it will make me jab again, then I get ****ed up by a knee or some bs

 

[Paixy]

Lol agreed. As stated in the OP, it's hard to decide since each move has several utilities that'll be really handy if set up for them.

3 - punishing rests? super situational

Yeah pretty situational since a fully charged upsmash is usually the better option - depends on %'s and where Puff is onstage. A lot of Puffs tend to take risky rest opportunities more at higher %'s anyway giving upsmash more opportunities.

also, chad will say jab is not good enough because the lag after the jab I believe is what he said, and I kinda agree, cause sometimes I want to forward tilt right after my jab and it will make me jab again, then I get ****ed up by a knee or some bs

There's 10 frames of lag, so yeah, you've gotta use the 'utility' only if you're sure it'll work.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

All of his moves have a use of some sort. Also I know another amazing place to get the jab inf. on rainbow ride when you first get on to the top part of the stage there is a wall if your on the right side jabing them it's crazy useful, if it worked amazing with pichu it should work even better with pikachu.

I want to think his edge attack is his worse it's pretty slow and the inv. frames don't help. His get up attack is more useful.

Also I think his fair is really bad because they should be able to hit you before you hit them. but it's bad when recovering because it can beat the knee because it's barly disjointed and it could beat some other moves.

pikachu's side-B isn;t as good as pichu's in a number of ways. I know I could dd around jump up and side-B someone as pikachu or start charging it and scary the crap out of someone. But it does have high protily non-charged it can beat puff's rollout fully charged. also recovery is always important

 

[Ciro67]

side b and back aerials are the worst.

side b doesn't help recovery much. for damage, you'd have to be a big n00b to actually get hit by it, no offense to anyone that has lol

his back aerial sucks since your opponent can easily attack you from landing lag. so what's the point in ever actually using it? you have better moves to use in every situation.

 

[Paixy]

You actually think his Bair is the worst...?

It's way fast! The hitbox comes out on the 4th frame! The damage is not too bad and the KB is good when compared to Pika's other aerials. It lasts 59 frames, I view this is a pro as it can mess up approaches and you'll suprise a lot of people with it anyway. It's the kinda thing where they'll have caught up onto you using it and punishing them though, so they'l have to change there game to win...which is good! I agree that the landing lag is easily punishable (15 frames if L cancelled), so that just means you've gotta use it at the right time. Oh, and yeah, it's actually possible to ledge cancel it (though it's situational). Lastly, what does Pika lack? Range. Well the range on this is ok'ish when you consider part of the hitbox is his tail which pokes out slightly.

 

[Ciro67]

i stand corrected. side b it is! :D

 

[AXE 09]

IN MY OPINION:

(number 1 being the worst move)

1) forward b
2) down throw
3) forward air
4) back air

i don't think i have to explain why i chose forward b as his worst move. when you use it as a recovery method, it only SLIGHTLY helps, and you have a very big chance of getting hit while you're using it because of how much lag it has. it's good for punishing jiggs rest at very low percents, but it only gives slightly more damage than usmash does (by like 2 percent i believe?). pikachu is better off using usmash most of the time. also, trying to use this to gimp someone is extremely risky. it's more likely to hurt you than to help you

a lot of you might disagree, but i just don't like downthrow. the only time i'll ever EVER use it is against fast fallers, praying that they won't tech so i can jab reset them, but you're a lot better off using Uthrow in every situation, except for maybe at 0% when they DI since you can't follow up at that low of a percent. i might also use it against jiggs. although you can't get any true combos, you can hope to hit her before she hits you or gets away, but i usually bthrow jiggs anyways. you can follow up with a bthrow depending on where they DI

just in my opinion, Fair isn't very good. i do know, however, that most pikachu players like to use Fair, but i guess i'm just different. if your opponent is in the air, Fair is alright, but you can't get any true combos after using it, which means that they are able to escape. sometimes you can also use this to reset someone on the floor instead of jabbing. however, if your opponent is on the floor, if they crouch cancel, it's very bad news for you. even if they don't crouch cancel, many times, they're still able to hit you before you're able to hit them

i was debating whether or not to put Bair on this list. Bair is just as strong as Nair and Dair, but it has incredible lag. seriously, how often do you use this move? whenever you hit the ground with this, you usually get punished. sometimes your opponent won't punish you because of the hitbox when you land, but if they don't get hit by it or block it, it's easy to punish. the only times i can think of for using this move would be after hitting your opponent with a rising Uair, only because your Nair/Dair are stale or if your Nair is stale and Dair would come out too slow to hit your opponent. you can also use it off stage to try to catch your opponent off guard. besides that, this move isn't too useful. it's strong and not necessairly a "bad" move, but... i kind of think of it as like Falco's Fair. it's not bad, but it's just you usually have better options instead of it

 

[tdk_Samurai]

wow I'm pissed, I can't believe you put fair, dthrow and bair on a bad move list, especially bair, especially

wtf do you do with non fast fallers if you can't get them off stage?

and fair is pretty good, although it isn't great for a combo pika, and you are a combo pika. But it has so many uses, and I'm not about to list them

and bair? bare? bear? beer? like so amazing, where the heck is zig. But seriously, I hardly ever get punished for aproaching with bair, I like to aproach with it against people who shield grab alot, it is a bit harder to l cancle though, I give you that, but you feel shield grab, get up attack, ledge get up attack, and down b cancleing are better moves than bair?

 

[Faithkeeper]

wow I'm pissed, I can't believe you put fair, dthrow and bair on a bad move list, especially bair, especially

wtf do you do with non fast fallers if you can't get them off stage?

and fair is pretty good, although it isn't great for a combo pika, and you are a combo pika. But it has so many uses, and I'm not about to list them

and bair? bare? bear? beer? like so amazing, where the heck is zig. But seriously, I hardly ever get punished for aproaching with bair, I like to aproach with it against people who shield grab alot, it is a bit harder to l cancle though, I give you that, but you feel shield grab, get up attack, ledge get up attack, and down b cancleing are better moves than bair?

I'd never really thought of... well anything you pointed out. If you would take the time to elaborate a bit more on some of your points, I (and likely others) could gain a great deal from your opinion.

 

[TresChikon]

Does grab range count as a move?

 

[indigestible_wad]

I like down throw for tech chases. <3

 

[tdk_Samurai]

I'd never really thought of... well anything you pointed out. If you would take the time to elaborate a bit more on some of your points, I (and likely others) could gain a great deal from your opinion.

I assume you wanted me to talk about more situations you could do with 3 moves I love? Here goes

Down throw - as wad pointed out, tech chases = :-) Some chars with those stupid 2nd jumps that can be cancled can be upsmashed out of d throw at certain percents, and some mid level fallers like marth can be d throwed to arialed sometimes. I guess that really doesn't sound like much for what I can come up for off the top of my head, but I guess its a throw and I shouldn't have expected pages. I will agree with axe that its prolly the worst throw, but its not bad IMHO.

fair - love me some fair. Now like axe said, not many true comboes involve fair, but some untrue comboes can happen with it 99 percent of the time. I watch alot of chad vids where he will do fair, land behind, and dsmash, it works pretty solidly. Then there is the fair>uair on gannon n64 talked about a while ago.

I feel fair is just a safe move if spaced well. I have played alot of good players in tourney, matt & tom r, dmac, viperboy, etc. I have never once gotten punished for spacing a fair to land way behind them. It doesn't always shield poke, but when good kids **** me up, its almost never after a fair.

Another thing I like to do with fair is to fair > grab. I love ledge hoping, fair, grab, b throw, edgegaurd. I love it so much that it has become a habit, and kids who play me alot know its coming, and I know its coming, but I can't stop. but if you l cancle your fair, you will most likely grab them.

However, fair to jab is a true comboe, and I loves it. Against walls and in pikas death pit in mountain phase on poke stadium, I will approach with fair, whether it pokes or not is irrelevent, cause I'ma jab right after like 100 times, and they can't stop it.

And another use off the top of my head, edgegaurding. If someone is far enough away where sweet spot is as far as they can get, and theres no time to spike/you don't wanna risk it, I find myself fairing falcos once in a while and taking a stock that way. Also, sometimes if I mess up my spacing on my ftilt, I will trade, and they will recover as I am falling back down and I don't have time to set up, so I'll just fair the edge so they go back down again.

Now in teams, fair is also kinda nice. your teamate gettin comboed out of a throw, fair, your teamate to far away to recover, fair to give them their up b back, your puff just rested some ho and you don't have time to jab, fair.

Bair - zig has a thing written out called like the reasons he loves bair or something, and I wish I could memorize it. But basically bair makes you look like you are in one place and your in another. Bair is also kinda hard to shield grab right away, its like a crouching puff. bair is a nice option right out of a rising uair. Bair is a pretty good finisher over all.

Man after thinking about it, bair is pretty situational and can be replaced by nair in alot of ways. Cause bair doesn't really combo INTO much, has about the same knock back as things, and IF someone knows the matchup they will learn how to punish a bair really good and won't shield grab it. And bair lasts so long if you wanna bair off stage, so nair easily takes that place.

I will say I stand corrected on bair, and kinda dthrow, but I still love fair

 

[N64]

bair ducks ganon grabs, and some other grabs too. Soooo gooood.

 

[AXE 09]

lol that's why i said IN MY OPINION

not saying that any of the moves i listed are BAD, i just think that all of pikachu's other moves are BETTER

EDIT: but that also doesn't mean that those moves are useless. i can think of times where a Bair is the best option, but the thing is, those situations don't come that often

and TDK, you are definitely right about Fair in teams. i wasn't taking into account how it can be used in teams. so as far as helping your teammate goes in teams, Fair is good. it breaks combos and can save your teammate. but as far as singles goes... i still don't like it. keep in mind though, this is only in my opinion. i know i'm one of the few pika players who doesn't use fair often at all

 

[DJ Nintendo]

I don't use fair too much either but I use it depending on the situation.

Although I believe Pikachu's worst move is his weight lol. He can't get out of Fox's up-throw up-air, but a fata$$ like Bowser can jump out in time lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You can Fair edgecancel U-smash as a true combo... on computers.

 

[BankaiPwn]

So was just reading the other thread ask about piakachu thread, and it seems to be the concensus that foward b is the worst move (I'll admit it, I'm pretty close to thinking so too), although I have to ask, does knowing that smashing side B instead of holding side-b moves you significantly further aid pikachu's recovery in a noticible manner to make it worth using to recover?

I already tended to use side-b (not knowing smashing moved further) when I was further off, but just wanted to know (since I've never tested the smashing side-b) how big of a difference it really makes.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

So was just reading the other thread ask about piakachu thread, and it seems to be the concensus that foward b is the worst move (I'll admit it, I'm pretty close to thinking so too), although I have to ask, does knowing that smashing side B instead of holding side-b moves you significantly further aid pikachu's recovery in a noticible manner to make it worth using to recover?

I already tended to use side-b (not knowing smashing moved further) when I was further off, but just wanted to know (since I've never tested the smashing side-b) how big of a difference it really makes.

Smashing side-B definitely makes Pikachu go a bit further than holding side-B. I tested it out myself and its also been confirmed by other players. You pretty much go about his body length further. So its an extra lil thing to help us Pikachu players out more. Even a lil difference goes a long way

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I still say that his ledge attack is by far his worse move.

Wow on bair's lag for pikachu it's only 9 frames for pichu heck even his dair is less lagy than 15 frames.

But hey tell me more about avoiding grabs with bair. Because if that works I think I have some new plans vs some people, I know they will sheild grab because everyone chain throws you and I know I would grab the first frame I can due to my ice climbers automatic reflexs to grab the 1st frame they touch the front of my sheild.

Edit: oh yeah for side-B i've done this a few times but if someone is on the edge and don't want to get off charge side-B they will stay on of course but release so you nearly cancel it on the edge and you fall off the stage becuase it will hit them on the edge.

 

[AXE 09]

ledge attack is NOT a bad move

funny that i've kinda just been doing this recently

you can use it kinda like bowser's or peach's ledge attack. if someone is recovering below you and you're not sure how early they're gonna up-b (let's use marth in this example), you can do a ledge attack. if they recover so they barely land on the stage, the ledge attack will knock them behind you, and it'll knock them pretty decently far behind you, far enough to where they'll have to do another up-b. i didn't know how effective this was until i just started using it recently against tee ay eye. if they decide to try to sweetspot the edge instead, they won't be able to grab it if you time your ledge attack well enough (which isn't very hard at all)

and OMG, i finally got a chance to test forward b. wtf man, why didn't i know about this? this helps his recovery so much more lol. but... even though it helps his recovery, i still think it's his worst move

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

wait which ledge attack? the one over 100% or under?

 

[N64]

utilt

I love the move to death, but i probably use it the least out of all of his moves. Which is to say i use it all the time. : )

 

[AXE 09]

the one under 100% is probably best. the one over 100% works too, but i don't think it works as well as the other one

you know what move i forgot to put into my list?

dash attack

 

[tdk_Samurai]

you know what move i forgot to put into my list?

dash attack

omg I know. Like if I could make it to where I don't dash attack I'd be so much better off. not only is it useless, but I can't tell you how many times I missed a jc upsmash and accidentally dash attacked > loss of stock

 

[indigestible_wad]

I can honestly say that out of all the attacks I've seen listed, I see a use for each of them.

Jab: use it. it's a decent spacing tool if you know when to stop. SideB, recovery. Fair, is a decent gimper. You can ledge release hop into fair and regrab the edge if you time it right. I love me some down throw tech chase. Bair certainly has its uses. Ledge attacks are generally good mix-ups. Dash attack can be used if the opponents in the air, and on occasion is good for knocking them off the edge.

That's just my opinion. I use all of them a fair extent.

 

[N64]

i edgeguard with dash attack. get at me.

 

[tdk_Samurai]

i edgeguard with dash attack. get at me.

lol gtfo plz

 

[AXE 09]

i edgeguard with dash attack. get at me.

it can't hit a falcon if he sweetspots, but ftilt will lol

 

[N64]

Pika edgeguarding

Top Tier:
Ftilt

High Tier:
Uair
Dair
Jolt

Mid Tier:
Dash attack
Dsmash
Fsmash
Nair

Low Tier:
E'rything else

Pikaa pikaaaaa tier:
Taunt

Lol tier:
Skullbash
Thunder

 

[indigestible_wad]

Thunder is an awesome edgeguard. No one expects it. Wut u sayin?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

what about d-tilt and bair?

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

i dont think dsmash belongs in mid tier.

 

[N64]

dsmash (if spaced correctly) instantly kills falcons, ganons, and falcos recovering from below at low percents. Untechable until like 30 (i don't know the actual number, but it's around there). I think that's deserving of mid tier.

Dtilt and bair are low tier. Bair is awesome but kills you if used anywhere below the stage, and dtilt is ftilt but worse.

And thunder is awesome indeed. Doesn't it create the lulz?

 

[indigestible_wad]

It sure does. It's called running suicide thunder.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

I edgeguard with Thunder all the time. Its so funny to catch someone in it and they blast away at the sheer power of the PIIIKKA lol.

 

[XIII ways to die]

i would say bair but since its a move that last a bit like falcos down air it has some use to it.

but all in all i would say side-b for sure. i know how to tech chase with it. but seriously you mess up on that move you can get owned. brawls side-b is a heck of alot better

 

[V3ctorMan]

Not Brawl kid no one here likes Brawl.. brawl sucks..

 

[soju]

Eh pikas worst move? I would say it depends on the person playing styles.

For me I would say the Fair since I always get CC then insanely punished for it >.<
I use the taunt even more then I use the Fair XD Uber fun mindgaming with Pika's taunt

But thats just me XD