Pikachu as viable defense against metaknight counterpick stages?

[ADHD]

I'm thinking about having a wild card in my pocket for this very specific metaknight mainer that always wins on his counterpicks (frigate, rainbow cruise, delfino,) and I found pikachu to be an amazingly good char with great options. I'm just wondering if this could be a legitimate back-up plan if I really put my heart into learning him. Btw I have gone straight diddy in tournaments.

 

[gallax]

it truly would be a legit backup. not only does MK fear us at low percents, but with proper DI pika can live to high percentages. combine this with a great hit and run game or the option of using the tjolt for spacing makes this an interesting matchup. i wont lie to you though, pika vs. mk is a very tedious matchup.

 

[Piman34]

yeah but i think those stages are pretty good for pika (idk how they are for diddy), which could also be pretty helpful.

also, woot 1000th post(unepic i know)

 

[K 2]

Yeah, as galax said, I believe pikachu fares better than most characters against MK, but the matchup can be very frustrating. You have to know the matchup really, really well. Pikachu's SB momentum cancel can help him live longer than MK.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Pikachu goes 40-60 against MK, which isn't too bad. If you learn him well, you can win, but it can be a very difficult matchup (Pika's second hardest.)

 

[Piman34]

who's his first hardest? gaw? just wondering off the top of heads w/o looking at the matchup guide

 

[gallax]

it goes:

marth
mk
rob

 

[King~]

rob?? wtf

and why is MK still a 60-40? though it would have been 55-45 by now

 

[Master Raven]

I think it'd be a good idea. ESAM is not afraid (and actually LIKES) to take me to Delfino and Frigate for counterpick stages, and I still have a tough time with his Pika there. He 2-stocked me on Delfino at a tourney last Saturday. I'm not saying Pika is good vs MK there as I haven't fought him there enough yet, but from my experience those stages are not bad for Pika to fight MK on.

 

[Pika_Cam]

The funny thing is, I don't know that Metaknight has a truly bad stage. If I had to counterpick stages, I'd probably just take him to Pokemon Stadium 1 with Pikachu.

 

[gallax]

FD all the way then yoshis island is my list.

 

[Pika_Cam]

FD all the way then yoshis island is my list.

Why Yoshi's? The platform always gets in my way.

 

[Kitamerby]

Kirby vs. MK on Halberd = insta win.

But yeah, if you're talking about stages specifically, Pika probably isn't your best choice for Rainbow Cruise or Delphino or Frigate. Kirby and Wario are probably better characters to use there.

 

[Piman34]

i like pika on rainbow cruise, its easy ceiling kills from utilt usmash and thunder, and while you will get less thunder hitting you, you get them up high...but its also a good mk stage iirc, and idk who does better

 

[gallax]

ive gimped MK so many times on YI with the tjolt. i love it.

 

[Max Ketchum]

lol...Kirby isn't that good vs. MK on Halberd. MK still wins there due to scarily low kills from up B out of shield and uair. ChuDat lost there to the specific MK main that ChromePirate is talking about just 2 weeks ago.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Technically since pikachu fares better against MK than most of the cast, you can just use Pika for that MU anyway, but you have to basically pick him up for serious, otherwise you won't really know the MU and all the things pikachu can do...Pikachu has only a few bad stages (brinstar and luigis) but they can be overcome with other characters that you might play (i don't know who you play)

 

[gallax]

snake? 0_o but brinstar is just my worst stage overall with any char.

 

[Max Ketchum]

He mains Diddy, ESAM. Do you not know the legendary ADHD?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I don't know his smashboards account name.

 

[Master Raven]

ChromePirate is ADHD.

 

[The Truth!]

I agree with with what ESAM said. Pika has a few tools that work against MK (like jolt going through all of his attacks except nado from the side and glide attack). But yeah, youd have to put a good amount of effort into being good with him. I think NL does the same thing actually, uses pika for RC and other odd stages where recovery matters.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Forgive my noobishness... but who is ADHD?

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Forgive my noobishness... but who is ADHD?

not really who... its a term for "attention deficient hyper-active disorder".... technical term for some1 who can't concentrate on one thing too long if you say "some1 is ADHD..." (that person spaces out too much). Its not a brawl term if that's what you were wondering.

If that is his game tag... then plz disregard what i just said... lol.

 

[Pikabunz]

ADHD is a Diddy player. One of the best too.

 

[Pierce7d]

lmao @ people not knowing the top Diddy main in the world just visited their boards.

 

[Fluxus]

lmao @ people not knowing the top Diddy main in the world just visited their boards.

ADHD doesn't have world proof dude... Lol.

He isn't a god, I don't see why that's a big deal. Very good player yes, but top Diddy main in the world? Extreme.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I just didn't know it was him...i know who ADHD is.

 

[KayLo!]

lmao @ people not knowing the top Diddy main in the world just visited their boards.

Some of us don't follow Brawl players like that..... lol.

I've heard of him, but a) his SWF name isn't ADHD, so not everyone would know, and b) in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't be upset even if I didn't know. It's just a video game, not the Presidency or something.

ADHD doesn't have world proof dude... Lol.

He isn't a god, I don't see why that's a big deal. Very good player yes, but top Diddy main in the world? Extreme.

And this.

Also, I'm thirding what ESAM & Tag/Truth! said.... Pika does relatively well vs. MK, but you have to actually learn him. And his learning curve is somewhat high (not ridiculous, but I wouldn't consider him pick-up-and-play).

 

[ADHD]

Lol at people hyping me. Pikachu is so akward, approaching seems to be his weakness

 

[Max Ketchum]

ADHD might as well have world proof. Other countries have far less developed metagames, and he places the highest in the strongest region.

 

[KayLo!]

Pikachu is so akward, approaching seems to be his weakness

I've never found Pika to be awkward, but I've used him since 64, so I guess that's probably why.

Approaching can be a problem, especially if you're planning on using him against MK. Fair is Pika's main approach, but leading up with tjolts is usually a good idea.... you can sometimes set up for grabs this way.

QAC isn't a great approach, but it's a viable option if you aren't too predictable with it. Or, you can QAC around your opponent to confuse/bait them into making a move, then capitalize on any openings you create that way.

I think Anther once said that getting behind MK with Pika is your most ideal position, so SHADing behind him might work. I've probably done it, but I can't remember how effective that was in particular.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Short hop air dodge is a pretty bad option in general, and I don't see how it'd be any better against MK. Either you bait him into an attack that he whiffs or he shields, both of which he has good options out of. If he shields, he can dair OOS to hit you when you land behind him, tornado to outlast the air dodge, drop his shield to reverse ftilt, dsmash (back hit for more power), reverse up B out of shield, etc.

If he whiffs a move, MK doesn't have significant enough cooldown on anything that'd give you enough time to land behind him with an air dodge.

The only way short hop air dodging behind him would be effective is if you catch him totally offguard and he's unable to react, but there's a large window of time to do that in.

 

[KayLo!]

Short hop air dodge is a pretty bad option in general, and I don't see how it'd be any better against MK. Either you bait him into an attack that he whiffs or he shields, both of which he has good options out of. If he shields, he can dair OOS to hit you when you land behind him, tornado to outlast the air dodge, drop his shield to reverse ftilt, dsmash (back hit for more power), reverse up B out of shield, etc.

If he whiffs a move, MK doesn't have significant enough cooldown on anything that'd give you enough time to land behind him with an air dodge.

The only way short hop air dodging behind him would be effective is if you catch him totally offguard and he's unable to react, but there's a large window of time to do that in.

Yeah, like I said, it might work, but I honestly couldn't remember how effective it was. Maybe QAC'ing behind him would be better or something.... I dunno, I don't really approach MK. He's one of the few characters I'll play Campachu against.

Or Chaingrabachu.

 

[Master Raven]

I don't see how ADHD isn't the top Diddy of the world right now, or at least top 2.

 

[The Truth!]

Wow at the sidetracktedness. Also kaylo is correct, you are in a good position if you land behind MK.

 

[gallax]

dont forget that MK's dsmash ***** and is spammable. getting anywhere near MK is not a good thing.

my answer: dtilt the SOB

backup plan: run

 

[The Truth!]

I had to leave right away so I didnt explain well, but I think Anther explained this in the pika chat. If you land behind MK you are in a good position to either grab or Dsmash. Also if I remember correctly dsmash tends to pwn MK because unless his shield is full it tends to poke. I dont know if air dodging through works, he could probably nado.

imo pikachu doesnt generally approach, he pressures.

 

[PikaPika!]

lmao @ people not knowing the top Diddy main in the world just visited their boards.

Is polejocking people fun? I've never tried it myself personally but alot of people seem to do it.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Grounded d-smash will always trade or overprioritize nado if the nado lifts off the ground one bit... I use it when nado comes from far away and tend to keep my distance REAL close to mk, cuz the nado has SLIGHT start up time... noticable compared to mk's d-smash and an u-air or n-air always takes care of me.... (until shuttle comes out O_T)

I feel that the best way to approach a mk is to t-jolt (full hopped) about 2 times... if the mk is good he'll start moving foward while powershielding.... and just dash in with a mindgamed grab.... no shield/nothing just straight up dash and grab. It worked for the most part for me against Forte's MK and all other mk that i fought (except M2K just d-airs... so it doesn't work... lol... j/k). From 0-ish to chaingrab from one walk/dash face-off is pretty nice to start the stock.