Pictochat

[EmuKiller]

I think pictochat has some pretty great music too. I'm pretty sure that's the only reason Delfino is so popular.

 

[stingers]

hey inui...

 

[Inui]

The transformations on Pictochat can decide the outcome of a match, yes.

Cool. It's banned because of this. Glad you finally realized it.

GGs.

Bothering with you is a tiresome chore and pointless aggravation

Then go away, random.

I'm done arguing with you. I will save my care for this debate when it matters, like in the SBR, not where it does not matter at all against someone I have never even heard of that likes luck in Brawl and thinks he can prove those crappy RANDOM spawns aren't luck-based. Luck-based stage stays banned. Go away.

 

[Alex Strife]

even though you disagree you should put people down that pay your bills lucas

 

[Flamingo]

Inui, you should ban Smashville...I've missed a Falco laser due to a balloon before...

 

[Inui]

even though you disagree you should put people down that pay your bills lucas

I've never even seen this guy at a tournament before, so he probably doesn't even compete in this area. He's just some random throwing out numbers at me thinking he can someone logically argue that adding luck to the game is cool and that players are bad if a spike appears on top of them and kills them.

 

[stingers]

Inui, you should ban Smashville...I've missed a Falco laser due to a balloon before...​

 

[Kitamerby]

(note that the only thing keeping the right side from being a safe zone is the bullet, which can spawn at various heights, ranging from shorter characters being able to duck under it to average characters being able to stand under it. Also note that these pictures were zoomed out a bit, so the safe zone is bigger than you'd think. Individual images by phanna.)


I agree with Inui. It is absolutely ridiculous to believe that anyone would ever have time to get into this tiny safe zone during one of the 6 of the 27 possible stage hazards which last 13 seconds each at the most, of which but 5 appear within the stage's limits itself, 3 appear well above the stage's floor, none will kill at 100% with DI, and 1 of which does at most 6% on the severely unlucky. Nevermind the fact that during a match that takes the full 8 minutes will just be finishing their 18th drawing with no repeats, meaning 9 transformations for 4 minutes. The stage is just too random. There isn't any time during the 3~ seconds of drawing to move out of the way into that absolutely tiny safe zone, considering its size for an individual drawing is just way too small. The stage-bound spikes and piranha plant do a whopping 10%. The flames do a whopping 1% each hit, commonly 3-4% total, on an unlucky victim with no chance of death before 300. The bullet can be shielded or even powershielded, and the bottom bullet will never kill below 150%, but who has time for that in a match? If you are somehow lucky enough to get all 6 of them in one match, the entire screen will be covered in horrible hazards for a whopping 80 seconds maximum! (Which is probably less than the average time a Meta Knight spends planking per match!)

Ban this stage. 4 minutes of non-flat stage without any glaring ways that Meta Knight can gay the hell out of here is just too overcentralizing.

 

[Inui]

Ah, the time you people have wasted.

What has changed?

Nothing.

 

[stingers]

idk the fact he refuses to respond to me just proves how childish he really is. his "I'm right, I'm better than you, look at my medal case!" **** is really aggravating...

it's a catch-22 and he knows it, admit to banning smashville and...he has to ban smashville, commonly accepted as THE neutral...admit otherwise and he implies there's a certain level of luck that is acceptable, which goes against everything hes said.

thus his theory must be flawed at the core...there's nothing you can do about luck in smash, tripping is absolute proof of this, if you want to remove pictochat you can't just stop there and not remove smashville too...@.@

edit: i'd say the odds of missing a gimp because the balloon blocked your laser or being sent into the pictochat spikes in hitstun are pretty **** similar anyway, this is ****ing brawl, there is no hitstun to speak of.

 

[bobson]

Cool. It's banned because of this. Glad you finally realized it.

Not where the TOs aren't scrubs.

 

[Inui]

Not where the TOs aren't scrubs.

lulz

Why did Genesis use my ruleset? Why did Apex use my ruleset? The two best nationals had my rules. The same rules I came up with for my events over a year ago. MD/VA uses those same rules all the time. Besides Gauntlet, NYC uses those rules. Alex Strife's VC's use those rules.

The best hosts in the nation are using the same stage rules as me. Alex Strife, nealdt, ChuDat, Inui, etc. = scrubs. Definitely.

 

[bobson]

Why did Genesis use my ruleset? Why did Apex use my ruleset?

Because you have a big mouth and no one sensible debated you? I don't know why otherwise good TOs make scrubby bans. Maybe you're just really good at fellatio?

 

[deepseadiva]

I think pictochat has some pretty great music too.

This is false. Pictochat contains the most horrid track in the game.

Pictochat doesn't grant you any type of foresight.

This is false.

What exactly is random in Pictochat?

The times the drawings appear and disappear?
The stage's selection and location of the drawing?

The times are not random. The timing of the drawings are on a strict schedule. Being "surprised" that a drawing has spawned is totally, and undeniably, player fault.

Pictochat provides foresight in that aspect.

The one aspect that Pictochat spins a roulette with is its selection of drawing. Regardless, this "random" aspect of the stage has little sudden affect on decent and knowledgeable players due to two factors: the safe zone (which is repeatedly being referred to, and fallaciously, as "small" - it takes up about 70% of the left side of the stage), and the "drawing" animation itself which appears before the hazard hitboxes become active.

The hazards can be avoided both preemptively, as well as on reaction.

The two highlighted statements above prove you wrong. Let's move on to counter-arguments.

"Oh, it's still unacceptable since you might be in a position that's unable to respond to the hazards. Luck could decide if a spawning hazard kills me. Unacceptable."

This is faulty. Such as in hitstun? If you are in this type of position, again, this is player fault - not the stage's. If the opponent was smart enough to grab you or smash you right before a hazard spawns (whether intentionally or not is unimportant), this is player use of a stage. Likewise, it was your mistake to be grabbed or smashed before the hazard was spawned.

Critical thinking allows us to decipher this as player fault, and not luck.

"Oh, it's still unacceptable since you're fighting the stage that often."

This argument is also faulty. You are always fighting the stage. Whether it's FD (constant affect) or Wario Ware (constant and intermittent affects) - the stage is always the third player in a game of Smash Bros. Recklessly minimizing this affect (No items! Final Destination! Fox only!) is simply bias-based mutation and thus not Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Which is unfortunate since that's what we're playing.

Absolutely not. I will die before I allow this stage at my events. Random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurances can decide who wins. That is not acceptable.

"Random" selection has been proven to be a negligible feature of the stage concerning knowledgeable players.

"Uncontrollable" seems like a filler word. What stage features are "controllable" exactly?

"Unpredictable" has been proven to be false.

I am Meno. I'm a mid-level random, regardless, my opinion matters since I use logic backed with examples and reasoning.

 

[Inui]

Because you have a big mouth and no one sensible debated you? I don't know why otherwise good TOs make scrubby bans. Maybe you're just really good at fellatio?

You really should just leave and stop wasting your time, random.

 

[teh_spamerer]

You don't even play this game competitively anymore, are you coming back?

Maybe.

So why would it matter at all to you?

Even if it doesn't, you should make your arguments more convincing.

Plus you're metaknight, you would never have this problem.

Meta Knight is not immune to random effects.

I presented my reason for wanting the stage, now how is that wrong?

Your reason contradicted itself. You asked Alex Strife if he thought having Pictochat on would affect results and he said no. Yet you also said that you needed it because it would help you win. If it helps anyone win who would have lost, and you're complaining because you don't think the current CP system is fair to your character in best of 5 sets, then it IS affecting results.

By the way, you guys realize there are safe zones on Pirate Ship too, right? Safe zones do not make random match deciding events fair.

 

[deepseadiva]

By the way, you guys realize there are safe zones on Pirate Ship too, right? Safe zones do not make random match deciding events fair.

Of course they're not. But they help compliment the fact the events are slow, predictable, and avoidable. It also helps that the safe zone is more than half the ground floor, and not say, some odd platforms. This is also excluding both ledges, and the majority of the, albeit the higher and thus harder to reach, airspace.

Pirate Ship's hazards also kill much, much earlier than anything Pictochat can shake a Piranha Plant at.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Of course they're not. But they help compliment the fact the events are slow, predictable, and avoidable.

The bombs on Pirate Ship are slow, predictable, and avoidable as well.

It also helps that the safe zone is more than half the ground floor, and not say, some odd platforms. This is also excluding both ledges, and the majority of the, albeit the higher and thus harder to reach, airspace.

While the 100% safe zones on Pirate Ship are just platforms and the King of the Red Lions, you can see the bombs coming a few seconds before they do, they explode for only a short period of time, and you can tell where they are going to hit before they do(unlike the stage hazards on Pictochat.)

Pirate Ship's hazards also kill much, much earlier than anything Pictochat can shake a Piranha Plant at.

They can still decide matches though, which is the problem with the stage. You can make the same argument for turning items on and say that "hey, if we turn on all the items except the ones that explode and the ones that kill you at 20%, its fair! They aren't going to kill anyone and they can be used skillfully! It's the other player's fault for getting hit away from the items!"
None of that changes the fact that you're getting damage/kills due to sheer luck.

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. This logic is terrible. You are saying that players should be paying attention every 26 seconds for a transformation

2. I've seen it. I've experienced it. The facts of the stage prove luck can decide who wins on Pictochat more than on any other stage that is a contender for being legal.

1. Is that really any different than paying attention to the 26.5 second c4 timer when fighting snake? or paying attention to the clock to know when the 2 minutes is going to be up on warios fart?

2 Every single person that you are arguing with has seen and experienced the ins and outs of the stage far more than you. And like many people have said before, luck does not decide who wins on pictochat, ever.

By the way, you guys realize there are safe zones on Pirate Ship too, right? Safe zones do not make random match deciding events fair.

funny, I was under the impression that pirate ship was banned because it promoted excessive water stalling, not because of any of the hazards on the stage...

pictochat does not have random match deciding events, and the reasoning behind the banning of pirate ship, (afaik) has nothing to do with this

 

[deepseadiva]

Yes, Pirate Ship and Items are completly different subjects.

They can still decide matches though, which is the problem with the stage.

It's not a problem. As I've said, every stage decides the outcome of matches. It's either very obvious such as the lava on Brinstar, or it's more subtle, such as the accumulation of damage from camping FD encourages. Pictochat has the burden of being very obvious, but also the saving grace of being reasonable to deal with (not KOing until past KO percents, safe zones, warnings, and a schedule).

A sudden arrow drawing will determine a match at least once, but no more than smart abuse of the moving platform on Smashville.

 

[bobson]

By the way, you guys realize there are safe zones on Pirate Ship too, right?

Given that Pirate Ship is a fine stage and the only possible problems it has are not related to the bombs at all, I don't see what you're going for with this.

 

[ADHD]

Inui fight with meno now.

 

[Pierce7d]

No, no and no. I didn't even have to read this thread, but I will always say no to Pictochat. Everytime I think, "Pictochat might not be that gay" some gay **** happens to me, where it's like, "Oh, I was supposed to avoid that? Too bad I can't fly."

The stupidest **** every was where I was playing vs. D3 and I expect a grab so I spot dodge. D3 waits and gets a grab. Alright, that's fair. Now he gets to chaingrab me across the stage, but we're in the middle of the stage, so it's not OD. He pummels once and Dthrows me (I was at 70ish). That's all cool. BUT WAIT! The spike pillared walls randomly appeared, and all of a sudden, off of ONE CG, I'm now getting CGed into a wall that just appeared!!!! I lost my stock. GGs.

So much stupid stuff like that happens, and camping is promoted so profusely, that I feel the stage just invalidates a lot of characters. Have you FOUGHT a Pit or Falco there? Yeah, sonic/wario has the speed to traverse the stupidly large stage and not get gayed by projectiles due to the mechanics of their character, but even Wario does not want to fight Falco on Picto. It's mad gay son.

EDIT: and omg don't get me started on Diddy Kong.

 

[Inui]

Inui fight with meno now.

What part of "I'm done and it's staying banned" did you not understand, child?

Players like teh_spamerer and Pierce7d are in agreement with me. They are significantly smarter than the people arguing for this stupid stage, and they are both incredible players.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Yo pierce, the way you talk about it, its sounds like its just a good CP mah dude...

 

[Inui]

Yo pierce, the way you talk about it, its sounds like its just a good CP mah dude...

ROFL

He just outlined how he died to COMPLETE CHANCE. ~_~

 

[da K.I.D.]

I play DDD. Ive delayed my chaingrabs to get stupidly easy gay kills on every stage that has any kind of transitions. castle siege, delfino, frigate, norfair, SMASHVILLE, and halberd.

Getting gayed by ddd is not in itself a reason to ban a stage.

Everything else he said about the stage is just regular counterpick stuff. I didnt see a problem with a stage that gives benefits to certain characters like pit or falco over others, seeing as every stage does that.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Yes, Pirate Ship and Items are completly different subjects.

No they aren't. Luck based events changing matches are why they are banned. Yes, Pirate Ship also allows for excessive water camping which is another reason it's banned, but the 40% damage bombs that can kill you are certainly a reason why it's banned.

It's not a problem. As I've said, every stage decides the outcome of matches.

No duh. You're missing the point though.

It's either very obvious such as the lava on Brinstar, or it's more subtle, such as the accumulation of damage from camping FD encourages. Pictochat has the burden of being very obvious, but also the saving grace of being reasonable to deal with (not KOing until past KO percents, safe zones, warnings, and a schedule).

See, the problem with Pictochat isn't simply that it decides matches. It decides matches from RANDOM EVENTS that can spawn on TOP of your character.

A sudden arrow drawing will determine a match at least once, but no more than smart abuse of the moving platform on Smashville.

The moving platform on Smashville isn't random though.

 

[slikvik]

looks like i know where im taking inui wherever this stage is legal

 

[bobson]

So much stupid stuff like that happens, and camping is promoted so profusely, that I feel the stage just invalidates a lot of characters. Have you FOUGHT a Pit or Falco there? Yeah, sonic/wario has the speed to traverse the stupidly large stage and not get gayed by projectiles due to the mechanics of their character, but even Wario does not want to fight Falco on Picto. It's mad gay son.

I would be overjoyed if a Falco took me to Pictochat instead of FD.

 

[slikvik]

pierce, i dont see why a wario wouldn't want to fight falco on pictochat

 

[EmuKiller]

looks like i know where im taking inui wherever this stage is legal

Good luck trying to beat him.

 

[da K.I.D.]

The moving platform on Smashville isn't random though.

The chances of me getting a CG on you with ddd at the time where i can CG you on a wall or into a spike, are the same as the chances of me getting a grab on the platform with ddd while the platform is moving the way im facing, so as to give me an infinite, into an f throw to kill you at 80 all the way at the edge of the stage.

 

[deepseadiva]

No they aren't. Luck based events changing matches are why they are banned. Yes, Pirate Ship also allows for excessive water camping which is another reason it's banned, but the 40% damage bombs that can kill you are certainly a reason why it's banned.

It's still a bad example because Pictochat has nothing near that type of power. Nothing Pictochat has even goes past 15% in damage, and nothing KOs until past KO percents. You'd have ground if Pictochat was that powerful - there is indeed a line as to how much the third player can interfere, even with "safety zones and schedules", but unfortunately Pictochat doesn't cross it, as I've proven in my initial post.

See, the problem with Pictochat isn't simply that it decides matches. It decides matches from RANDOM EVENTS that can spawn on TOP of your character.

Was it a random event that you're standing in its way? Why did you make the mistake of being grabbed right before the arrows spawned? This isn't a random casualty - this is clearly player fault as I've outlined already.

It is random - the very important aspect being that the randomness doesn't matter to non-ignorant players.

What part of "I'm done and it's staying banned" did you not understand, child?

Players like teh_spamerer and Pierce7d are in agreement with me. They are significantly smarter than the people arguing for this stupid stage, and they are both incredible players.

I've significantly proven your posts false in several aspects if not entirely. Your appeal to popularity does not exempt you from being wrong.

 

[Princz15]

nvm. lol.
im just gonna say no and call it a day.

i dont think it will ever be legal in my region NY/NJ
so why worry lol.

 

[Allied]

its in alex events princz lol

 

[Coney]

i'm gonna hold a tourney soon

and pictochat's gonna be allowed

Spoiler

as a neutral

 

[Isatis]

i'm gonna hold a tourney soon

and pictochat's gonna be allowed

Spoiler

as a neutral

Oh snap!

 

[blakinola]

Pictochat has an event every X seconds. I don't remember the exact interval, but it's planned, although the drawing is random.

The drawings will cycle and not repeat until it reaches the last in the set. In an 8-min match, you won't see all the drawings.

That's something I remember Amazing Ampharos or Thinkaman saying and it's not an exact quote but those guys know too much about the game.

I love pictochat. It has slanted edges.

 

[Kitamerby]

By the way, you guys realize there are safe zones on Pirate Ship too, right? Safe zones do not make random match deciding events fair.

A safe zone high up above the stage in a place that people would rarely be... a sole platform high above the stage cannot really be comparable to 70% of the stage, can it?

The bombs on Pirate Ship are slow, predictable, and avoidable as well.

One big difference though (other than power).
The cannons are MUCH, MUCH more subtle, often never even appearing in the background until they can fire! The camera does not scroll nor does it tell the players when the cannon is approaching. If you're fighting on the right side of the stage, the cannon can fire without ever getting into view! The fact that bombs appear as small, fast moving streaks doesn't help either. They're actually quite fast, with soft sounds compared to the full-stage transitions and loud drawing noise of Pictochat. They cannot be compared in that sense.

While the 100% safe zones on Pirate Ship are just platforms and the King of the Red Lions, you can see the bombs coming a few seconds before they do, they explode for only a short period of time, and you can tell where they are going to hit before they do(unlike the stage hazards on Pictochat.)

The exact time is about a second or a little longer, and depending on the camera, you may or may not even get any warning whatsoever. The bombs also are not very noticeable on the screen due to their coloring, small size, and quick speed. There's also the fact that the bombs appear much more "randomly" than any Pictochat stage due to a lack of an apparent interval.

They can still decide matches though, which is the problem with the stage. You can make the same argument for turning items on and say that "hey, if we turn on all the items except the ones that explode and the ones that kill you at 20%, its fair! They aren't going to kill anyone and they can be used skillfully! It's the other player's fault for getting hit away from the items!"
None of that changes the fact that you're getting damage/kills due to sheer luck.

Very bad analogy.

ROFL

He just outlined how he died to COMPLETE CHANCE. ~_~

I've died due to a DDD grabbing me on a SV platform or Castle Siege, then holding me until the transition and cg'ing me basically to death. Ban both stages. I've died from the lava hitting me while I was standing on a platform on Brinstar and then Wario wafted me for the KO. I've died from falling through Pokemon Stadium during a transition. Why can't we ban these stages? I died due to complete chance and/or DDD gaying me.

Also, of the 27 drawings, stages, only 4 have walls accessible from the center of the stage. For one, the left side has no wall, however, and for the other, the right side has no wall. During the drawing of three out of the four, it is possible for DDD to be "separated" from his victim during the drawing phase. This means that DDD has a very very very very minimal chance of landing an infinite in any given match. It's much more likely for a person to be CG'd off the side of Castle Siege than it is to be infinited on Pictochat.