PGD: Happy Birthday, Red!

[Leaf.]

WW is the Ruby/Sapphire of Zelda. It's good, it's not great, and casuals revere it as the best in the series.

This.
Twilight Princess is good. Top 5 imo imo.
Behind A Link to the Past, OoT, MM, A Link Between Worlds, in that order.

Edit: But I swear I'm not starting lists.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Someone buy me premium.

I won't make a list but I really enjoy TP, not because it's the first one of the LoZ I played two years back. But just because it feels good despite the flaws. MM and either OoT or SS next.
Getting a Wii U either next week or the last week of August cause I have to pay fer the rest of it in layaway this month so I'll be streaming (if I can on WiiU) WW soon.

 

[Reizilla]

A Link to the Past is the only good LoZ game. Others are garbage. Hyrule Warriors will be too.

 

[Phantom Gamer]

I just like most LoZ games in general. I'd need to play them all again to possibly rank them since it's been too long.

 

[Leaf.]

You should just play them all again anyway.

 

[KayLo!]

A Link to the Past is the only good LoZ game. Others are garbage. Hyrule Warriors will be too.

**** you, I'm excited for that game.

 

[Scatz]

An arguement about the best LoZ game? Where Sequelitis?

I did like TP's storyline, but I think the easeiness of the game and mundane puzzles killed my enthusiasm in finishing it. Still, I'm close to getting a WiiU for a few games, and hoping the Hyrule Warriors is good as well as the open world LoZ.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

Best and favorite are 2 different things though.

Link to the Past/OoT are the best, but my favorites are TP/OoT/Minish Cap.

 

[Leaf.]

Oooh ****, how could I forget Minish cap.
It's up there too, it has MM's spot. Everything else moves down.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Using Ego as an example is horrible, Scatz.
Listening to Ego complain about ****ing Waiting for everything! for 30 minutes was getting obnoxious.

 

[Scatz]

Lol I didn't use him as an example. I just wanted to post him cause he's funny at contradicting himself.

He does have a few good parts about each game when he wasn't ******** about that though.

 

[redfeatherraven]

Aw ****. Is it INPO time? I think it is.

*heavy breathing*

New avatar incoming

And it ain't done. Imagine.
No pressure Red.

some of the best dungeon design all across the board

It also was the most mature, thematically

Although I largely agree with you I find some part of the argument are left wanting. I'm going to have to wait for a note reasoned counterpoint until I return to my laptop, but I'd like to poke these two holes.

The Temple of Time's retread mechanic felt to me a major cop-out. I'm salty. What could have been one of my favorite dungeons of all time is instead one of the largest disappointments in my eyes.

I would argue that MM either matched or exceeded the mature themes, but TP was more explicit. That, specifically, I'll explain more when I have a not-smartphone keyboard to explain with.

For the record, MM is my favorite of all time, with TP a close second and a mishmash of the others behind.

Gen3 HAD SECRET BASES!! Best feature of pokemon

This man speaks the truth.

Where the hell have those been hiding, TPC?

This picture is more awesome than it has any right to be. I love it.

An arguement about the best LoZ game? Where Sequelitis?

I just watched that. He does raise some good points, and I took some good notes.

That said while I do feel OoT was more cinematic in places than it had to be, and less exploratory than it appeared at first glance, I feel the flaws were more related to the inexperience in bringing Zelda to 3D more than anything - they didn't realize yet what would get in the way in the long term and we were all too wide-eyed to care.

Again. This is a real keyboard argument. But there you go.

 

[Phoenix Lord']

Listening to Ego complain about ****ing Waiting for everything! for 30 minutes was getting obnoxious.

Just like the waiting in OoT. If there's one thing Arin was spot on about in his video, it was OoT's lousy combat mechanics.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

Although I largely agree with you I find some part of the argument are left wanting. I'm going to have to wait for a note reasoned counterpoint until I return to my laptop, but I'd like to poke these two holes.

The Temple of Time's retread mechanic felt to me a major cop-out. I'm salty. What could have been one of my favorite dungeons of all time is instead one of the largest disappointments in my eyes.

I would argue that MM either matched or exceeded the mature themes, but TP was more explicit. That, specifically, I'll explain more when I have a not-smartphone keyboard to explain with.

For the record, MM is my favorite of all time, with TP a close second and a mishmash of the others behind.

When I said across the board, I'm referring to how fun each dungeon was. It was never particularly challenging or innovative, but it was always a joy. Yeah, the Temple of Time could've been better as a dungeon though, I agree.

And all Zelda games have those mature themes, but none of them are as fleshed out as TP. In MM, a lot of the mature themes are mature in terms of Skull Kid and how the masks relate to each trial. TP's mature themes delve past the classic good/evil with the variations in between and with interpersonal relationships. You're not wrong about this, since it's simply an opinion and I see your point, but I disagree MM is more mature. It's still childish in nature, whereas TP is more for young adults and up. MM's biggest shortcoming to me was taking away the implied bonds/friendship that OoT was so focused on.

 

[redfeatherraven]

In hindsight, wouldn't call MM more mature in all fairness, but I'd still call it equal. The themes are just below the surface, however, while in TP most of them have been brought to the surface instead.

And I will point out that MM had interpersonal relationships, in spades. In fact that's all it had. You didn't care for any individual region or kingdom or whatever, you cared about the characters involved. Anju and Kafei, Pamela and her father, the Deku Princess and monkey, the Deku butler (and son), and of course the Skull Kid are the better examples, but others can be found throughout.

Really though, this is making me want to do an in-depth comparison of the two. It's the themes and tone of both games that puts them squarely in my top two, so it'd be fun to delve into them sometime.

Sadly my job has all that **** blocked.

Patience.

 

[~Radiance~]

id love to participate in this

MM is a very deep game with many themes that are below the surface that teach such valuable lessons. Link losses his strength via losing his beloved navi. He leaves to search for his beloved friend, as zelda tells him that there will always be a place in her heart for him. He flails and struggle, akin to the deku scrub. An ever looming moon that is destined to crash, an ensemble of tasks that cannot be completed in 3 days alone, and yet he is encouraged by the happy mask salesman. surely you have the ability to do it, believe in your strengths. You are daunted by the tasks given to you. You wait fearfuly in anjus room for kafei as seconds tick to demise, you face the incredible odds of having to see the moon crash or almost crash as you fail over and over, and the theme that is present still is to believe. If you wait patiently and believe, kafei arives. In the trial on the moon, if you trust the momentum to take you as goron link by letting go of the controller, you can make it to the end. And when you overcome your fears and are able to put aside your own needs in order to help everyone else, you are awarded with the firece diety mask, links true face. The fight vs majora is hard if you havent overcome any fears and doubts, but if you have made link believe in himself majora is easy with the diety mask. And at the end link goes home to hyrule, realizing that his princess was there for him all along, and was merley waiting for links return. By discovering himself and learning who he was, he no longer needed to search for his missing fairy, link had a home with zelda all along.

 

[Leaf.]

Well, I think the graphics were better in TP so it's cooler.

 

[redfeatherraven]

@Fizzy That is a beautiful angle. It really is.

I'm gonna feel bad when I have a keyboard in front of me, cause I'm gonna do terrible things to that analysis.

But I do like the interpretation.

@Leaf MMHD remake.

Someday.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

While I like your interpretation, seeing as it's all subtext, I interpret the game a vastly different way.

The chaos is driven by a broken character who uses his internal angst to project upon the world. You are very right about the bulk of MM's plot being derived from Link's experiences saving the day, but I disagree that's a mature foundation for a game. MM is essentially a short story, whereas TP is a full experience. MM's whole existence as a story and game is surrealism, the game is supposed to be strange and weird. And it's great at that.

But TP is gritty and grounded in realism. Its beauty is in the simplicity, it's Black/White and teases the grey in between. MM isn't, it's more akin to a colorful surrealist painting, you can interpret it many ways but it's still just a collection of items. TP has structure and form, and I really can't compare the two as mature since MM is childishly driven(as it should be).

MM to me has always been a story about growing up, and I feel OoT did that so much better.

That's why I'm not a huge MM fan, and don't put it even above SS. I like the game, but it's never been my thing.


Still, I like your variation of the story. It just doesn't change my mind about MM being the more childish game.

 

[redfeatherraven]

Keyboard man.

Just give me.

A damn.

Keyboard.

Phone why you gotta be so bad.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

I know, I hate posting at work. q.q

 

[redfeatherraven]

DROID RAZR, dude. The original crappy one.

This is the dumbest-ass smartphone I've ever seen.

 

[~Radiance~]

i def agree maaaaaaan. I like TP more than MM, but MM has this sort of nostalgic analytic feel to it that makes it one of my more fave zeldas. I just really enjoy the interpretations on it a lot, though i have to say that speedruning it (as i am learning to run all 5 3d zeldas for the 3d zelda challenege this year) is really hard compared to oot and even TP.

TP has a very real quality about it that makes it super dark. I loved zant and how he was introduced. the unstable spurratic villian whose moves were indictive of pure insanity, and turning him from a calm collected boring run of the mill villian to one of the most interesting villains bar garahim. I loved how it was a story that was very mature in its presentation, from midna almost dying to the theme of betrayal and fear that came along with it. Link being warned of the horrors of the triforces power, and having to stand up to doing what he knows is a bad idea by helping midna due to his altruism in wanting to save his people. Link puts his values aside and does what is right for his people, knowing full heartedly that midna could betray him at any point. His willingness to never turn a blind eye to what is right, paired with zeldas noble sacrifice ends up turning midna into one of the most loveable and inspirational supports in any zelda game, feeling remorse for her actions and wanting to work to help the world of light

 

[redfeatherraven]

You know.

I wonder if ZGD is getting jealous yet.

 

[~Radiance~]

I hope they are, but then again we are the liver of this community. ZGD is like, kaylo. maybe. and so thatd make ZGD the kidney of sorts.

also we have kinda strayed away from this but: i agree the combat in OoT is lackluster, but its funny because from a speedruning perspective the combat is amazing with good use of isg and power stabbing

 

[redfeatherraven]

TP had the best combat in the series bar none, in my opinion. After you learned a few of the advanced combat tricks you just felt so awesome dancing around enemies, and it was effortless to control the pace of the battle.

Sure, you could wait for the enemies to drop their guard like in OoT...or you could roll to their flank, leap over their head, or put them on the ground and finish them with a diving stab to their nuts. If they had nuts. Hard to say if the lizards did or didn't, I guess.

Point remains. There was always something to do, always a flow, always potential for forward motion. It was great. I wish they'd learned to keep **** like that in for SS.

 

[~Radiance~]

i guess as a 3d zelda runner i cant really interject into this opinion since my view is so much different

 

[redfeatherraven]

You gotta, like, live in the moment maaan.



With that wording I really should have seen Max10n's endorsement coming.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

I like LoZ games based on how hot link is in the games.

Skyward sword and Hyrule warriors are tied for first.

 

[Phoenix Lord']

I like how cute Toon Link is.

 

[Phantom Gamer]

ZGD is like, kaylo. maybe.

Having trouble figuring out what you mean by this.

So, the ZGD is like a strong independent black man who needs no woman?

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

So, the ZGD is like a strong independent black man who needs no woman?

Like a strong independent black man who didn't want to be a woman.

 

[~Radiance~]

lmao maaxton
and nah kaylo was a zeldar main so i said that. She also used to challenge any pika to beating her zelda. That MU is weird, but they say that kaylos zelda was amazing vs most of the pikas

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

It's remarkable she represents wisdom, only a fool picks such a lame-o.

The dark lord is wise beyond all.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

You need Courage to dive into that amount of Power.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

Really, Ganondorf is the embodiment of the Triforce. Link is constantly trying to deny him his birthright. There would be no war with Ganondorf in control, no strife. Only darkness.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Ganondorf did nothing wrong.

 

[Thor]

PGD's lost it...

Midna's driven all y'all mad. Only one thing left to do:

Ok I feel better now.

 

[Phantom Gamer]

I think you're the only one whose mad here.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Midna driving us mad?
Nonsense, Midna is love. Midna is life.

Wooper is a bad pokemon.