Peach Pillar

[Medicated]

Hello i am a fellow peach player, and i live in Davis Ca (the same town as Pink Shinobi). Twice a week i used to go to these smash groups that they had for the UCD kids and i remember Paul (Shinobi) telling me about the "Peach Pillar". You are supposed to DJC - nair - jab, rinse and repeat.

At low percents you can carry some characters mainly space animals across the stage. I was wondering if you were supposed to L-Cancel and fast fall out of the nair. It seems to go faster when L-canceled however i thought when u DJC it acted as an L-Cancel for the move. I also find it very hard to move forward and not Fair instead of Nair.

Anyways i would love it if someone could post some links to video examples or if anyone had tips on how to do it.

Thanks guys,
Medi

 

[Requiem]

DJC doesnt L-cancel your arials, you are mixing DJC up with Float Cancelling.

 

[Medicated]

Ohhhh! Duhh so i guess you do have to L-Cancel it.

Thanks man

 

[bahamutz69]

the motion to move forward is alot like shdls
the forward flick>jump i mean, its about the same timing im pretty sure

 

[Medicated]

ya its just so hard i was hoping there were some tricks with hand positioning or what not that could make it a little more doable.

 

[TheGeneral]

Well, if you're trying to move forward as you fc n-air, try pressing your joystick in the 3 position (onto the flat section of the joystick gate in the direction you want to go.) So, when you do your low float (before pressing a), press down-forward + x/y, release down- forward, hold x/y. You should now be floating forward and low to the ground. It's awkward, but it allows you to move forward as you float cancel n-airs.

You will probably do lots of fairs as you practice this.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Also...you don't need to L-cancel anything, as you seem to be saying. You just Float Cancel. The General is right about the positioning of your stick with the action, as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teO4ivfyA8k

As soon as I get around to remembering some other vids....I'll get to it, xD.

 

[TheGeneral]

Rain(ame) already said this, but just to clarify.

The only two ways to cancel your lag with peach are:

float cancel (fc) - float, while floating do an aerial, anytime after the aerial has begun land from the float.

This will give you the least lag (I'm not sure if no lag is correct but certainly the shortest possible for peach.) How much lag you receive from attacking depends on the attack you're doing, whether or not you fast fall your attack, whether or not you hit a shield, etc. Just practice the first thing I said very slowly into ACTUAL CHARACTERS as well as into nothing to understand the timing.

L-cancel - jump, aerial, (optional) fast fall, press l/r/z right before touching the ground. you probably already understand how to do this, so no need for another long explanation, but understanding how this works is integral for using djc-ing correctly.

double jump cancelling - I used to misunderstand this as well and it is a mis-nomer. Double-jump cancelling refers to the ability of characters (peach, ness, and yoshi, maybe some others?) to cancel their IN THE AIR momentum from their first jumps and send them in another direction (usually downwards) with another jump. It's kind of like triangle jumping on crack. Now there are two situations in which you use this with peach.

1. you're in the air for whatever reason and need to attack quickly belown you. Peach's fast-fall is too slow to reach somone underneath her with like a n-air or bair. So you press jump (wtf?) + down, then a and she plummets toward the ground with a n-air. This increased your fall speed, but don't forget, you still need to L-CANCEL your DJ-Cancel.

2. you're on the ground and camping in sheild (a good strategy btw) and you've just gotten hit by someone's laggy f-smash/d-smash/something punishable but which gives you sheild stun. If you want to punish, your only choices are to relase shield and attack (slow), wavedash out of sheild and attack (not as slow), or DJC OUT OF SHIELD OMG and attack (blazing fast). djc out of shield is weird and difficult but like all of peaches weird stuff could potentially be broken.

I hesitate to try to explain all of this because, honestly, it doesn't make any sense to me sometimes, so I can only imagine what it sounds like to other people. However, I did attempt to be thorough in my explanations. The main thing to understand is the difference between float-cancelling, l-cancelling, and double jump cancelling. Because they are three distinctly different things.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

just for clarity. fc givseyou the normal 4 frames of landing lag

 

[darkatma]

the peach pillar is impossible unless you are XiF or better.
the most you can do is add a ton of pressure onto their shield, although if you can pillar into their shield why not just practice fc nair to grabs instead?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

this man speaks true facts.

 

[Quaz]

I like to not rely on jab because there are people out there who DI the jabs in a sense and get out of them right away. I've also seen like foxes crouch cancel my jab and then right away did a downsmash or a shine before I could do anything else. I guess that might be best to dsmash at that point though or something.

I guess you gotta mix it all up.

 

[Rain(ame)]

I guess you gotta mix it all up.

This is probably one of the most important things that needed to be said about the pillar. There's a guide on it that XIF did a while back. Plus, there was a discussion that VaNz started on it a while back, too. (God I was such a noob back then, xD.) The most important thing about making the pillar useful is the mix-up. If you're up against someone who doesn't know what to expect from a pillar, you may very well have a major advantage no matter how you mix it up, though. Still, mix-ups are the key to a successful pillar.

@TheGeneral- I always LC my DJC out of habit...maybe that's why it was always so fast, xD. Also, DJC out of shield is amazing, but from what I understand from Eggm, FC out of shield is still faster. Still in all...it can be a good mix-up.

It may be easier for a person to do DJC out of shield at first. So you may want to stick with that, until you can FC out fast enough. Tec0 can FC Nair out of shield faster than you can blink, xD.

 

[TheGeneral]

@ everyone:
For the record, I like to grab out of my fc-ed aerials, especially a blocked f-air. That is tasty. I also prefer to fc n-air out of shield. When I was talking about djc-ing out of shield, I didn't really mean djc an aerial (I forgot you could do that, lol. It's been so long). I was more talking along the lines of an empty djc to get the 4 frames of landing lag instead of waiting for your shield stun to end.

I'm playing lvl 9. falco right now and he's denying any and all fc-ing out of shield with immaculately timed jabs. Stupid computer. I'm switching him back to like lvl 3 or 1 or something

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Medicated? Who are you irl????

To Medi:

Well, the pillar isn't meant to break shields. It's just a safe string of attacks that cannot be punished by shield grabs and by most OOS attacks. Adds pressure to her game and it creates openings. Most people don't like getting pillared, so they'll try buffer roll or something (or something that'll leave them at a disadvantaged position). If you know that, then you can space/tech chase and punish with Dmash , grab, or a more damaging attack than nair.

 

[Rain(ame)]

^^^

What he said

I know there are stories about breaking shields, 'cuz XIF(and VaNz, maybe?) has done it. But yeah....I don't know if that's going to happen anytime in the near future, xD. Yeah, it HAS happened, it CAN happen, but the likelihood of it happening is rare. Especially since people know what to do for it. Still, it can be good shield pressure nonetheless. Um, the rest Shinobi said. <3 Shinobi.

 

[Quaz]

heh, whenever I get a saturn I always keep it with me and try to attempt to break the foes shield with it. I've been a successful at it a few times. You can mix Mr. Saturn in your pillar games.

I <3 Mr. Saturn ^_^

 

[JFox]

XIF once told me that he can't (nor can anyone really) pillar well enough that its impossible to shield grab, but that its a mixup game and if the opponent guesses and times it right, you can still get grabbed. This is why its important to swift up the way u pillar, because nothing is invincible. (even falco's pillar can be grabbed if you dont mix it up with multi-shines)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

peaches pillar is one of the sexiest things in the game

 

[Dogysamich]

double jump cancelling - I used to misunderstand this as well and it is a mis-nomer. Double-jump cancelling refers to the ability of characters (peach, ness, and yoshi, maybe some others?) to cancel their IN THE AIR momentum from their first jumps and send them in another direction (usually downwards) with another jump. It's kind of like triangle jumping on crack. Now there are two situations in which you use this with peach.

Ness, Yoshi, Mewtwo, Peach, most useful to least.

 

[TheGeneral]

Ness, Yoshi, Mewtwo, Peach, most useful to least.

Lol, thanks, how could I forget about mewtwo, except for the fact that djc-ing cannot save him from his own awfulness. He makes peach look fast, lol.

 

[Medicated]

first of all id like to thank every body for their quick responses , i haven't been on the forums for a couple days. I've read the post and the info you guys gave me is extremely helpful.
Pual (pink shinobi) this is phil's friend who came to 2 meetings of the Davis smash group, i was the peach player my name is taylor. oh btw is smash group still going on.
PS YAY GENERAL thnx for you're indepth post it was super helpful.

 

[kirbstir]

Ness, Yoshi, Mewtwo, Peach, most useful to least.

Peach's djc is actually quite a valuable tool for feinting; I'd personally put her at the top since those other characters are basically useless anyways

 

[Pink Shinobi]

first of all id like to thank every body for their quick responses , i haven't been on the forums for a couple days. I've read the post and the info you guys gave me is extremely helpful.
Pual (pink shinobi) this is phil's friend who came to 2 meetings of the Davis smash group, i was the peach player my name is taylor. oh btw is smash group still going on.
PS YAY GENERAL thnx for you're indepth post it was super helpful.

Oh I remember, you! Yeah, we still have smash meets, although they're not scheduled on the same days every week. If you have facebook, you can check us out and be more updated when we get together to smash. Finals are coming up so we might not be playing so much till after spring break. And if you like Street Fighter 4 that's fine too! <3

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Uhh there's a clip of XIF doing it, I know that much. Probably in metagame
yeah I think it's in the metagame trailer or maybe "I try"

 

[Mike G]

LOL ok.

there is a way to guarantee a gurard break with the pillar but u need to use a slap between each neutral A. it needs perfect timing with ISAI cancel frames lol

works against a few character.


but hey, what do i know

 

[darkatma]

Start going to tournies and winning again MikeG
we need more peaches

 

[Pink Shinobi]

LOL ok.

there is a way to guarantee a gurard break with the pillar but u need to use a slap between each neutral A. it needs perfect timing with ISAI cancel frames lol

works against a few character.


but hey, what do i know

Can't all the char's buffer roll out of the pillar done by human players without AR???? I could be wrong...Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

 

[thesage]

Why bother learning how to be all technical with Peach when you can just use her d-smash to do the same amount of damage as her combos do?

 

[TheGeneral]

Why bother learning how to be all technical with Peach when you can just use her d-smash to do the same amount of damage as her combos do?

In all seriousness, I pillar because I am afraid to d-smash. I play people who like to aerial above all else, so the hit box for d-smash won't hit unless I'm like inside their character's frame. I think I should d-smash more, though, because people don't expect me to use it. I guess I just would rather use it too little than too much is all.

Also: holy ****, Mike G posted in this thread! How do you know when the iasa frames are on peach's slaps? Just from frame data or practice, or what?

 

[Cort]

There's no such thing as a Peach pillar, all it is actually useful for vs experienced players is either timing a slap out of FCing a nair into their shield (or delaying it slightly since they've gotten used to it coming out instantly) and getting a free grab/sh nair/dsmash.

If people sit there and eat nairs and slaps on their shields they're either from around where XIF lives or don't know how to buffer roll away.

 

[Mike G]

I guess Cort is right, sorry for spreading false hope. I just remember seeing Xif do it to a point where they couldn't buffer as well as using it myself. Eh, I main shiek and samus now anyways. I let nair Xif handle peach now.

 

[Quaz]

wtf Mike_G you changed your smashboards screen name

...Cool

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Hmmm. i kinda thought so...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nair --> Nair is supposed to be unshieldgrabbable if you're like frame perfect or really close to frame perfect.

But that's largely impractical.

 

[_umbra_]

I thought someone disproved that with frame data a while back...

*is confused*

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nair>Slap

1 Start Nair
2 Fast Fall
3 Nair Hits, Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6 Hitlag
7 Hitlag
8 Hitlag
9 Land, Landing Lag
10 Landing Lag
11 Landing Lag
12 Landing Lag
13 Start Slap
14 Slap Hits, Hitlag
15 Hitlag
16 Hitlag
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30 IASA w/ Jump
31
32
33
34
35 Airborne
36 Float
37 Start Nair (repeat from beginning)

Nair>Nair

1 Start Nair
2 Fast Fall
3 Nair Hits, Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6 Hitlag
7 Hitlag
8 Hitlag
9 Land, Landing Lag
10 Landing Lag
11 Landing Lag
12 Landing Lag
13 Start Jump
14
15
16
17
18 Airborne
19 Float
20 Start Nair (repeat from beginning)

If I'm reading this right, Nair --> Nair should be unshield-grabble but also requires you to be frame perfect so...

Not worth it.

 

[XIF]

everyone from my area doesnt get hit by it anymore because they learn, but thanks for the unfounded insult Cort =)

Like many others have said, it's about the mix up.

c/p'd from my other topic, but I had another one before that was more in depth:

--------------------------------------------------

Slap is best used for pseudo resets and getting your opponent off balance. You can FC nair to slap, and the otherwise techable nair becomes a no knockback nair-slap from which you can keep pressure going with other aerials or a grab. Slap does not technically straight combo into anything, it relies completely on the opponents lack of reaction (which is surprisingly reliable). Most people don't react or don't realize they can move almost immediately after the slap, and your next attack is coming fast (or it should). The thing is that they have to realize they have been slapped as they are being slapped, or else its too late.

Double slap doesn't combo into anything either, again following anything after a double slap is just a pressure game waiting for your opponent to error. It can easily backfire, and the main thing to keep in mind is to mix it up. Peach doesn't have too too many actual combos, but she can mix up her game so much that you can pile on pressure and force your opponent into awkward situations. Say they expect you to attack after a double slap and decide to side step. A favorite mixup of mine is to double slap, dash dance away and back again into a dash attack. It ruins their timing and allows you to do some actual combos or damage. You can also simply run up and grab, or jump forward and dair, or any one of other options. Double slap is good because it starts a game of rock paper scissors that is in your favor. Usually. I wont make promises about how that works against marth or fox

FC nair double slap is something that seems to be popular now and I kinda blame myself for it being like that. Nair double slap is good, but once again only in the way it is one of many options to keep pressure going. Alot of people try to do something out of their sheild prematurely, or mess the timing up after the second slap allowing you to continue with something else, but there are ways to get around nair double slap if it's something you know is actually coming. Some characters can actually grab Peach between the two slaps. It's actually a little absurd . Most anyone can grab after the second slap, and anyone can simply roll away.

There you are, rolling away solves everything.

But what if I decide to only do one slap and then d smash? Now their attempted sheild grab got turbo eff'd. Or I can do a solitary nair and follow up with a mid float dair moving forward, either pressuring their still sheild or getting them out of their roll. I could do nair slap grab, or nair dash dance dash attack, or one of many options.

To restate it, nair double slap is only as good as it is unexpected.

--------------------------------------------------

But yes, you can chain nairs against floatier characters, peach is one, Mario Bros are another, bowser and mewtwo and according to Dogy Yoshi as well, but I don't play against/care enough about yoshi to know that.

 

[JFox]

SO what have we learned? Peach pillar blows- do FC Fair to grab. LOL

nah i peach pillar a decent amount, especially on (y)link's cuz they have awful shield options. most of the time im only trying to weaken their shield enough to get it low so i can shield stab with the inevitable Dsmash (never dsmash on (y)link's shield tho cuz of hookshot). If they happen to get hit by a nair or a jab somewhere in there, i act accordingly. usually you can do single jab to grab if people react slow enough.

 

[kirbstir]

It's amazing how much Peach and E. Honda share in common