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Peach+ Get Pimpslapped!

crazycrackers

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Increase the range of nair a little instead. I put in it the nightlies thread.

Actually, we could also keep nair the same, but make it hit more horrizontally so it sets up for edgeguards better.

I like the bolded suggestion. We should discuss the buff to nair in here, as well as finalize it before we go back to the nightlies.
 

SymphonicSage12

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so would you agree with making them have different trajectories? and if so, what should their trajectories be?
 

SymphonicSage12

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BTW they're being **********es again in the nightlies thread. We need to really talk this over before talkin any more over there. i think that nair should be slightly less powerful than bair, and have a sideways , slightly downwards trajectory, while bair should have a sideways, sort of upwards trajectory. thoughts?
 

SymphonicSage12

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yeah. let's do that. and let's stick together. XD ive kinda accidentally pissed them off again. @_@
 

crazycrackers

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Well it appears we've had some progress (I think). Nair at least deserves a chance. We Peach users don't even ask for much of anything. This is like...our only request correct? And we were offered it, so I don't know why this is such a big deal lol
 

SymphonicSage12

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yeah and that matt guy's being a total douche on purpose just to get us mad. and it's working on me, unfortunately. >:(
 

Mattnumbers

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yeah and that matt guy's being a total douche on purpose just to get us mad. and it's working on me, unfortunately. >:(
I am not trying to be a douche on purpose, I just see it as a buff. If making it edgeguard effectively takes away from some other use it has, so that the tweak is a tradeoff in itself, then I would be fine with it.

EDIT: lol at typo, I don't know where I got "I am not be a douche on purpose" from
 

crazycrackers

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Wow, unneccesary. Anyway, I'm done with this whole Nair buisiness. Peach is perfect the way she is and as I've already said, she doesn't need it. Its just funny how we never once said anything about Peach lacking depth or not being a great character, yet people still go nuts on us. Some people need to get over themselves.

Anyway, we thought there was a possibility for a buff so we tried to go for it. Thats all that really happened. I don't know why this has been such an ordeal.
 

Dan_X

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I have an idea for a Peach buff, remove her from the character selection screen. ;)

Crazy, what do you think of that? A win-win idea, right?
 

crazycrackers

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Ya, it would get rid of all of her bad matchups. See, she'd be removed from the character selection screen, but you'd end up as Peach no matter who you chose. Too good Orca. Its like we can read eachothers minds.
 

Dan_X

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Ya, it would get rid of all of her bad matchups. See, she'd be removed from the character selection screen, but you'd end up as Peach no matter who you chose. Too good Orca. Its like we can read eachothers minds.
haha!

I also thought of another buff for Peach... let's make the game dynamically render her Parasol in such a way that it can be destroyed... I mean, wouldn't it be awesome if Falco could pierce lasers through it, thus causing it to fail as a floating device? :)
 

crazycrackers

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haha!

I also thought of another buff for Peach... let's make the game dynamically render her Parasol in such a way that it can be destroyed... I mean, wouldn't it be awesome if Falco could pierce lasers through it, thus causing it to fail as a floating device? :)
Ya, that way Mario would have to come and save her and then she could fight people with a highly intelligent AI fighting along side her. Plus a laser might make the umbrella catch on fire and then she could throw it at people which would burn them. I mean, the game would go from T to M rated because the move would actually KILL your character. It wouldn't be pretty at all. She'd just throw a flaming umbrella with a heated steel base at you.
 

Dan_X

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Ya, that way Mario would have to come and save her and then she could fight people with a highly intelligent AI fighting along side her. Plus a laser might make the umbrella catch on fire and then she could throw it at people which would burn them. I mean, the game would go from T to M rated because the move would actually KILL your character. It wouldn't be pretty at all. She'd just throw a flaming umbrella with a heated steel base at you.
ROFL!!!

Yeah, it'd definately get an 'M' rating. I'd love for Peach to whip the flaming parasol at Falco only to have him reflect it back at her, lighting her up like the 4th of July! :D

We should be game designers... don't ya think?
 

RyokoYaksa

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By the way, Peach already has a move that sends at a low angle. SideB. Its natural angle is 20, the same as Zelda's Dsmash. No, it's not that applicable of a move and it's certainly very punishable on whiff, but that's precisely why the move is deserving of real kill power. It fits with her character, in contrast to making already good moves better.

Double hit Nairs and general OoS Nair usage make the move already pretty good. If you want to make a really ballsy and sadistic edgeguard move, do the SideB.
 

crazycrackers

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By the way, Peach already has a move that sends at a low angle. SideB. Its natural angle is 20, the same as Zelda's Dsmash. No, it's not that applicable of a move and it's certainly very punishable on whiff, but that's precisely why the move is deserving of real kill power. It fits with her character, in contrast to making already good moves better.

Double hit Nairs and general OoS Nair usage make the move already pretty good. If you want to make a really ballsy and sadistic edgeguard move, do the SideB.
I support sideB as Peach's only buff. Although, I realize sideB would still be very very impractical. The startup/hitbox/priority/ending lag make this move simply unatractive and easy to avoid and/or punish in the first place. Also very impractical is that sideB doesn't do its explosion on shields (unless on perfect shield lol). Still, I'll take it. I won't make that much use out of sideB, but understand why this would be nice.

Even so, Peach has use for literally all of her moves, a luxury that few characters enjoy, so I can't really complain.
 

SymphonicSage12

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i would support the side b buff, only if the lag got reduced, either on the startup, cooldown, or both. >.>


but I Would still support a knockback buff too.
 

SymphonicSage12

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So would you prefer a knockback increase in side b, or a lesser knockback increase, in addition to a quicker startup time? Take both of these to the nightlies build plz. :)
 

SymphonicSage12

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I actually agree, Yaaay, lessening the startup and making it safer would remove the "ballsyness" of it. :)
 

Morrigan

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I don't see the problem with the startup...the ending lag is what's horrible if you miss it. One miss and it could cost you a stock, especially in Brawl+
 

SymphonicSage12

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Agreed, Deku, although I Think that the startup and cooldown should be left alone. The whole point of raising the knockback is to make it a BALLSY edgeguard technique, and making the move safer would make it less ballsy. :v
 

crazycrackers

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I just find that due to the move's lack of practicality, Peach almost always has better options. The move can be used to tech chase, but Dash attack can tech chase spendidly as well, and can then lead into other moves. You can use it to chase a spot-dodge, but if you know they're going to spotdodge, why not just hit them with fair, hit them with fsmash, or grab them? It can be used to chase a roll, but most of the time Peach will be fast enough to chase a roll and grab her opponent (or dash attack them which leads into stuff). It can be used to chase an airdodge, but if your in the air Fair is way less risky and does the same damage with more knockback, and if your on the ground fsmash or low float fair are way less risky (and fsmash can do more damage depending on the item). The only time sideB is worth it is when one of these scenarios present themselves near the edge, because sideB hits at that fantastic angle and can set up for edgeguards.

So I agree with the knockback buff. If sideB could actually kill/deliver more knockback to set up for edgeguards earlier it would be worth it way more. Even so, someone whos experienced against Peach won't really fall for sideB very often unless in a tech chase, because people who know how to fight Peach realize that rolling or spot dodging other than when its absolutely neccessary is a bad idea (unless you have Lucario's roll).

Still, the thing thats great about Peach is that she has a use for ALL of her moves and sideB can at least be used to sweetspot the edge/recover sometimes, and has its occasional use on-stage. I don't really care much if sideB is buffed, but I DO support it. SideB is much more useful in teams, where its easier to hit with and has more practical use. So the buff could potentially make Peach even MORE deadly in team matches. My Peach is much more focused on spacing, playing safe, playing smart, and pressuring so I don't really care too much for sideB. My essential moves are:

Fair
Turnips
Nair
Jabs
Grabs
Fsmash

I still use Peach's entire moveset, and frequently. But those are the moves that any Peach should really be basing their game off of when playing safe. I put fsmash up there because with proper spacing Fsmash and Fair are a great combo. They cover SO many angles and fsmash is a wonderful anti-aerial. It also lacks that much lag really so its suprisingly safe. WHENEVER the opportunity presents itself to use Uair/ftilt/dtilt TAKE IT because those are fantastic combo moves. Dair is a great shield pressure move and it can force rolls. Not to mention it can start some sick combos if your opponent doesn't SDI out. Bair is great. Period. It barely doesn't make that list. Dsmash is fantastic for setting up edgeguards and its a great GTFO move. Its a pretty good follow up for when hit your opponent's shield with an AC aerial PLUS its great at shield-poking. Utilt is great because of obvious reasons (priority/range) and Usmash is a great killer if you can land it. Toad is always a nice suprise counter. So I guess the moves I listed are just Peach's most important moves, although she has significant use for all of her moveset.

Wow that got off topic. Well, at least it might start some nice moveset discussion. By the way, the way I described her moveset is rather vague and I know thats not all there is to it XD. Peach ftw.

EDIT:

I don't see the problem with the startup...the ending lag is what's horrible if you miss it. One miss and it could cost you a stock, especially in Brawl+
The point in giving the knockback a buff is so that it has a nice risk vs. reward ratio. With a knockback buff the move can still keep its dynamic and general attributes that make it the way it is, but at the same time it can actually be WORTH doing over other things if you hit with it. And an entire stock? That is % dependant, because I don't think anyone will be 0-deathing Peach in the near future.
 

SymphonicSage12

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Yes, I agree with everything. Buffing side b won't remove its riskiness, but it'll be worth that risk to make a ballsy edgeguard. I mean, isn't that the entire fun part? Being risky every once in a while? :D :laugh:
 

crazycrackers

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LOL I think I was talking about SH Dair a while ago and how it was/is **** for some combos and shield pressure. Couldn't your opponent just SDI out of a multi SH Dair combo though?
 

Meru.

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LOL I think I was talking about SH Dair a while ago and how it was/is **** for some combos and shield pressure. Couldn't your opponent just SDI out of a multi SH Dair combo though?
Probably, but if you want to combo I think its better to SH Dair > something else. There are plenty of options to rack up 50% easily.
 
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